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Message started by YonuhAdisi on 06/26/08 at 18:40:17

Title: New problem (SOLVED!!!)
Post by YonuhAdisi on 06/26/08 at 18:40:17

Went to my brother's house so we could go for a ride, it rained a bit so we just waited it out but then when we decided to go we got down the block to a stop sign and BANG!! huge backfire and died. Tried to fire it back up but it wouldn't. It acted like it had slipped timing but when I got it home, I checked the timing and everything is perfect.

Any suggestions?

New carb has stuck pilot air screw and it looks to be stuck all the way in. Stock jets, and it appears that white spacer has been removed.

Have Lancer performance cam installed. (by the way Lancer, will get the core sent back to you as soon as I can)

She was idling very rough fit to die unless I held the throttle open further than full adjustment on idle screw. She acted like she was cutting in and out until I hit mid throttle then she would level off and pull like crazy.

I was thinking the stumbling on idle was bad spark plug and was going to pick up a new one when brother and I were out on our ride, but since ride didn't happen...

Well anyhow. Any suggestions? Mechanically the engine is fine.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by thumperclone on 06/26/08 at 18:45:56

more info
what kinda "new" carb?
if oem dbl check vac line and petcock..

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 06/26/08 at 18:49:13

Carb is new to me, bought it off of ebay. It is a stock Savage/S40 carb.

Petcock is a harley aftermarket manual petcock, I have the vac port plugged on the carb with a piece of vac line and a screw. (both very tight.)

Title: Re: New problem
Post by verslagen1 on 06/26/08 at 19:19:40

everything you told me so far says dirty carb.
*idling very rough
*stumbling on idle
*stuck pilot air screw
*Carb is new to you

did you clean it at all?

clean it, rejet it, get it to run at idle

And what muf and air filter with that retro beast of yours?

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 06/26/08 at 20:40:19

3D2E3938272A2C2E257A4B0 wrote:

I did take it apart and it seemed rather clean.

I'm running a Jardine muff and a K&N slip in air filter.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by verslagen1 on 06/26/08 at 20:43:23

well, you definitely don't want stock jets in there.
didn't you rejet the other one?
put at least a 150 in there, but 155 unless you're at altitude.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 06/26/08 at 20:47:07

I have a 152.5 in my old one so I will be rejetting the "new" one tomorrow. I also have a 55 pilot jet laying around. When the 55 was in my old carb it was flooding the bike at idle, but maybe not this time since I have Lancer's performance cam in it.

My altitude is roughly 5000 ft

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 06/26/08 at 20:49:36

But I need to get another 2 quarts of oil. To be on the safe side I pulled the engine cover to take a look at the tensioner since I thought it had jumped time. Tensioner is okay and bike is still timed perfectly.

I checked the timing the hard way. I pulled the head cover and manually turned the engine until TDC while watching where the cam was in relation to TDC. I will also be getting a new spark plug since I was gonna do that today anyway.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by verslagen1 on 06/26/08 at 20:55:50

should've used the lean over trick, it would've of saved your oil.

yeah, 152.5 sounds about right, your idle problem is probably caused by that stuck idle screw.

btw, if that's the way is came, i'd email the dingle berry and threaten a negative for sending it that way. You might wreck it trying to get it out.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 06/27/08 at 13:24:58

Ya'll ain't gonna believe this crap.

I was attempting to get the pilot air screw out of the "new" e-bay carb using a screw extractor so I could place my old screw in it. The extractor broke off in it.

So I decided, I would use my old carb body and use the e-bay carb as a parts carb to rebuild the old carb. Got it done and re-jetted now I just need to wait for my battery to charge up, put some new oil in it, and see what happens.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by Bleemus on 06/27/08 at 15:17:50

May the force be with you!

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 06/27/08 at 16:03:55

And it wasn't. Oh, I got fired up all right, but I didn't even get out of the yard before it died and wouldn't fire back up again. Charging the battery some more.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 06/27/08 at 17:29:48

This is really starting to irritate me. Timing is right, tensioner is good, put in a brand new plug and it is already fouled due to being rich. Put stock pilot back in and still no go.

What the HEII!!! is going on with this thing? The only modification I had done to the engine is put in Lancer's performance cam. Before it everything was working fine except the carb problem. AARRRHHHGGGG!!!!

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 06/28/08 at 12:39:19

I got to thinking that I may know what me problem is now. Either my coil pack, spark plug wire, or both. But if that's the case I will be down a while while I save up money to buy such items.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by demin on 06/28/08 at 12:42:19

There's one on ebay,around 20 bucks I think
You have a pm.by the way.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 06/28/08 at 18:51:43

A buddy of mine heard me try to crank up the FireLizard and strongly believes that I may have blew a hole in the piston. If that is the case, does anyone know where I can get a big bore kit?

I don't want a monster bore, just enough to raise the CCs up to maybe 675 or so.

I have tried the search function and it did come up with some results, however a direct link to a company that sells them would be appreciated. I tried wiseco but they do not have the Savage/S40 listed.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/28/08 at 19:17:16

Does it turn over fast & easy? Take the plug out & see if it turns over any faster, OR, pull the oil fill plug & see if its blowing out that hole hard. And, if thers a hole in the piston, a hand over the carb throat wouldnt feel as much suction, since the piston dropping in the cylinder with the intake valve open would be sucking air up thru the hole in the piston. The bigger the hole, the less intake suction you will have.If you have a compressor handy, you could pull the oil fill & blow in the plug hole. Blow the dirt from around it before ya pull the plug..

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 06/29/08 at 22:29:34

I think I lucked out with the piston. I decided to turn the motor over by hand with the spark plug still in it and it had great compression. So I believe the piston is fine. I turned it over a few times by hand to be sure and the strength of the compression felt consistent.

Question though. To check the spark on the spark plug, do I have to place it near metal or should I be able to see the spark without doing so as I crank it with plug out of engine but hooked to spark plug wire?

I just had it hanging loose from the plug wire as I cranked it but saw no spark at all.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by newrider55 on 06/30/08 at 11:39:59

The spark plug needs to be touching metal to see the spark.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by Todd Perry on 06/30/08 at 13:37:37

Quote:

The spark plug needs to be touching metal to see the spark.

Oh, and as an safety point, it's recommended that you not be touching the sparky bit at that time... ;D

You can also buy a tester to do this safely for $15 or less at most FLAPS.

Or you could try making one:

http://www.nevadawalrus.com/spark-tester.html

Good luck!

Title: Re: New problem
Post by verslagen1 on 06/30/08 at 14:27:34

You can just place it on top of the head and turn it over. Don't need to hold it there unless it's related to a mexican jumping bean. :o

He may have been mislead by the decomp valve.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 06/30/08 at 20:39:21

Well, I double checked for fire and the spark plug is firing very well. So what the HECK is going on with this thing? I am gonna try one more thing before I tear the engine completely down again. I'll let ya'll know how it goes and what I tried.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by verslagen1 on 06/30/08 at 21:28:11

I know you had the carb off a couple of times, exhaust was off. Check for leaks, both intake and exhaust. Intake will make you run rough and exhaust are known howitzer bark.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/30/08 at 22:27:45

A guy I used to work with was trying to figure out if the lawnmower was firing the plug. He conned his young son into holding it & he gave the cord a yank. Prolly wouldnt have amounted to a Lot, But MOMMA just happened to see it. That guy said she chewed on him for an hour! I say she let him off light, she shoulda made HIM hold the wire,, ohh yea!

Title: Re: New problem
Post by LANCER on 07/01/08 at 05:21:51

The basics needed are air, fuel and fire. Apparently it did fire up for you initially, then died. Something is cutting off the fire or the fuel.
Are you sure the petc0ck is flowing fuel to the carb properly ?

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/01/08 at 14:21:34

414C434E485F1F1A2D0 wrote:

Yes, that was the first thing I checked was fuel delivery.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/01/08 at 15:28:38

Time to start all over again. I will be yanking the engine and do a complete tear down. I have tried every thing I know how to do and everything that was suggested here.

But that's okay, with a complete tear down I will be able to do a few things I have been wanting to do anyhow. This time I will be taking my time and make double and triple sure that I get it right.

The FireLizard WILL live again.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by verslagen1 on 07/01/08 at 17:04:37

Have you bypassed all of the safeties yet?

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/01/08 at 17:10:48

No I haven't but they are working properly. I wish it was that simple.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/03/08 at 21:06:06

Well, I just figured out it will probably be about 1000 bucks to get the FireLizard the way I want it engine wise. That is perfectly acceptable to me however, I just need to save it up is all. With all that I want to do with it, a grand is a darn site better than what these big twin guys would have to pay for the same performance mods as I am planning.

When I am done, the FireLizard should live up to her name. This time I will do my best to properly document my progress as I go along.

By the way, found the over sized piston at Wiseco after all, they have them listed under off road. ::)

Title: Re: New problem
Post by verslagen1 on 07/03/08 at 23:05:06

Have you found the problem yet?

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/04/08 at 00:14:54

My earlier report of lucking out with the piston appears to be false.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by rigidchop on 07/04/08 at 05:37:14

i don't know if i would drop that kind of dough on an engine, until i knew what holed the piston in the first place.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by verslagen1 on 07/04/08 at 08:08:55

got the head off yet? it could be the rings like greg.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by Max_Morley on 07/04/08 at 09:02:37

If it was me, I'd get it running again before disassembly so you don't have to try and figure out then what you might have done wrong in assembly or is the pre-existing problem still there, Max

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/04/08 at 10:36:30

To Max: Preexisting problem is still there.

To Verslagen: Head not off yet. Been busy with the honey-do list.

To Rigidchop: That's why I am going with a complete tear down. So I can find out what the heck happened.

I have been wanting to go with a big bore kit anyhow, and this is the perfect excuse to do so.

I personally don't think a 1000 dollars is too bad to spend, but that's just me.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by rigidchop on 07/04/08 at 14:53:29

so i'm thinking maybe you were running too lean, or maybe valve hit the piston (after cam swap) just a guess of course.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/04/08 at 20:18:37

That's my thinking as well. I will know for sure when I get the time to tear into it.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/06/08 at 23:39:19

Okay, I have finally found time to pull the head off and guess what? Piston and head itself are in perfect condition, the only thing it could be is still a fuel delivery problem.

So I will need to put the engine back together and just get me a NEW carburetor. I will be saving up to get Lancer's performance carb.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by verslagen1 on 07/07/08 at 09:15:09

Bud, you messed with 2 carbs and had the same prob. Of course a known working carb from lancer is the ticket to ultimate joy, but what about inbetween? and I still think it may be electrical, heard of a similar problem and it turned out to be a flakey kick stand safety. More likely fuel, but hate to see you stuck in a cage while waiting for the cash to trickle into your pocket. ;D

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/07/08 at 11:18:25

53405756494442404B14250 wrote:

How would I by-pass all of those stupid safety switches? Do I just jump them by tying the wires together or what?

Title: Re: New problem
Post by verslagen1 on 07/07/08 at 11:26:11

Yeah, clutch and kick stand are easy the terminals are right there, just wrap a wire around both terms on the switches. Not sure about neutral. If I remember correctly, it goes to ground when in neutral. ;D

Title: Re: New problem
Post by viper on 07/07/08 at 12:47:53

I have read this 5 or 6 times you do state it was raining on the way to meet for a ride. The coil on this bike is a modifed E coil if water gets in side it cause the lamenation to swell up from rust. when the coil fires it creates heat this will cause a temperary short coil will stop fireing. as it cools it will come back to life. I would try another coil before I went any farther. Just a thought.
NO spark will load up exhaust with fuel when the engine re fires I will lite fuel in exhaust BANG
Keep us up to date This is a good brain tweeker
viper

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/10/08 at 20:58:40

7B687F7E616C6A68633C0D0 wrote:

I e-mailed the "dingle berry" who sold me the carb, it is an actual Suzuki Stealership, a few days ago. I finally got an answer. They said they would be happy to send me another carb, I just need to call the stealership I bought from.

By the way, I was putting the engine back together tonight now that I know for dang sure it wasn't the piston,head, or cylinder and I came across something that just may have contributed to my problem.

Apparently my method of timing the cam to the crank is faulty. I checked the clymer's as I was putting it back together and finally found the cam timing marks and where they should be oriented. If I am correct, I had it timed too far in either advanced or retarded. (don't know which way is what) I am guessing I had the timing retarded.

With a possible new carb from "dingle berry" and timed the way it should be, I should be A-okay now. We will find out when I get the carb and try to fire it up again.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by T Mack 1 on 07/11/08 at 10:09:16

hmmmm... you maybe a lucky person. Oop's'n on the cam / crankshaft timing can be bad. A tooth here, a tooth there and the valve opens when the piston is in the wrong spot.....

Title: Re: New problem
Post by verslagen1 on 07/11/08 at 11:12:47

4375746F725B7E7369731A0 wrote:

I'm glad it worked for you, they all say they want a chance to make it right before you bemerch their name.

keepin' my fingers crossed for you.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/11/08 at 11:35:24

Okay, I called the stealership I bought from and they will be sending me another carb. They said they will be going through the carb they will be sending me to make sure this one works properly.

By the way, the place is called Action Suzuki in Mesquite TX.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by FreeSpirit on 07/11/08 at 21:31:05

Good Luck YonuhAdisi! Can't wait to see how things turn out....sounds though like you'll be up and running come Monday or soon thereafter!

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/11/08 at 21:46:06

It will probably after Monday before I get the FireLizard going again. I will need to order a pilot jet, my bigger pilot jet came up missing. I think I accidentally knocked it onto the garage floor and when I swept up the cat litter after an oil spill it may have gotten mixed in with it and got thrown out.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by FreeSpirit on 07/11/08 at 21:55:27

5C6A6B706D44616C766C050 wrote:

Oh, ....well I'll be reading along and see how things are going. hope you get it running soon. At least things seem to be coming together better!
And I'll be wishing you much Luck! :)

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/17/08 at 15:39:50

Found possible contributing factor. I have some wires running down from that regulator looking thing under the right side cover and it has been rubbing on my belt and exposed some wires. Will be taking care of that as well and re-route them so they don't rub the belt any more.

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/17/08 at 16:05:32

Yep, just traced the wires that were rubbed raw and they are the ones that run to the CDI box under the rear fender. How much ya'll wanna bet that was causing my fire to cut out?

Title: Re: New problem
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/17/08 at 17:16:05

Also heard from the e-bay seller about the replacement carb. He said he will be shipping it out today but he wants the old one back. No problem of course, I just thought I'd update ya'll on that carb.

Title: Re: New problem (close to being solved)
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/18/08 at 16:19:31

Okay, a couple more hours on the battery charger and I'll see what happens.

Title: Re: New problem (close to being solved)
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/22/08 at 12:35:44

According to the UPS tracking number for the replacement carb, it should be here anytime today. (as long as they don't deliver it to the wrong house. They delivered neighbors stuff to my house a few weeks ago)

Still haven't got the FireLizard fired up yet. But am working on it. Will work on it some more after I get the dishes done if I ever get up the gumption to do them. I hate doing dishes.

Title: Re: New problem (close to being solved)
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/22/08 at 15:05:43

Replacement carb just showed up. Time to play with the FireLizard some more.

Title: Re: New problem (SOLVED!!!)
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/22/08 at 21:13:03

As I posted in another thread.

IT'S ALIVE!!!

Repaired screwed up wire harness, replaced carb, and BAM it fired right up. Just got back from a test ride to my brother's house and back. She ran great except for some popping which I KNOW is due to stock pilot jet, will cure that in a couple of days when new #55 comes in.

Title: Re: New problem (SOLVED!!!)
Post by rigidchop on 07/23/08 at 01:21:02

wooooo hoooooo!!!!!!!

Title: Re: New problem (SOLVED!!!)
Post by FreeSpirit on 07/23/08 at 02:33:07

Yea,Yonuh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8-)

(Bet youre gonna make up for lost time,soon ;)

Title: Re: New problem (SOLVED!!!)
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/23/08 at 10:43:57

16223535032039223924500 wrote:

Yea,Yonuh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8-)

(Bet youre gonna make up for lost time,soon ;)

You're dang right I am. But not today unfortunately. The wife has been patient enough while I worked on the FireLizard, it's now time to do the tune up on her van.

Title: Re: New problem (SOLVED!!!)
Post by meck on 07/24/08 at 07:57:03

586E6F74694065687268010 wrote:

Congrats - it's been painful just reading about all that hassle!

Title: Re: New problem (SOLVED!!!)
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/24/08 at 10:23:53

545C5A52390 wrote:

[quote author=586E6F74694065687268010 link=1214530817/45#56 date=1216786383]As I posted in another thread.

IT'S ALIVE!!!

Repaired screwed up wire harness, replaced carb, and BAM it fired right up. Just got back from a test ride to my brother's house and back. She ran great except for some popping which I KNOW is due to stock pilot jet, will cure that in a couple of days when new #55 comes in.

Congrats - it's been painful just reading about all that hassle![/quote]

You think reading about all the hassle was painful. I hope no one has to go through it.