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Message started by hdblueangel on 06/16/08 at 19:38:59

Title: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by hdblueangel on 06/16/08 at 19:38:59

When I got the bike from the dealer last week, (no owner's manual yet) it probably back fired two times. But yesterday, I filled the tank and put in high test. She back fired a lot moreand seemed to run a little funny. There was gas from the dealer still in the tank.

What do you all use? :-?
Thanks.

HD

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by Texas-1-lunger on 06/16/08 at 19:43:00

I use premium with no problem.

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 06/16/08 at 19:55:35

87 octane. Can't buy it any cheaper than that here. The bike runs like a champ.

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by Paladin. on 06/16/08 at 21:05:46

The easiest way to increase engine performance is to increase the compression ratio. Unfortunately, when you increase the compression ratio you run into a problem of pre-ignition where the fuel-air mixture spontaneously ignites during the compression stroke. This results in a push against the engine rotation and a considerable loss of power, acompanied by a "knock" or "ping." A gasoline with a higher octane rating can take higher compression without spontaneous ignition.

Low octane fuel in a high compression engine results in pre-ignition and loss of power.
High octane fuel in a high compression engine stops pre-ignition for no loss of power.
Thus, high octane fuel in a high compression engine produces more power.

Low octane fuel in a low compression engine does not pre-ignite and has no loss of power.
High octane fuel in a low compression engine does not pre-ignite and has no loss of power.
"No loss of" does not mean "more."
high octane fuel in a low compression engine does not produce more power.

Our Savage/S40 has not had any engine improvements, it is a 1980's design with a 8.5:1 compression ratio. The Royal Enfield 350 has a 7.25:1 compression and the RE500 a unbelievably low 5.5:1 compression. They are un-improved 1950's designs. Other than the Enfields I know of no other m/c with such low compression. We should and do run fine on anything remotely resembling gasoline.

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by pgman on 06/16/08 at 21:20:00

I use the cheap stuff in both our bikes - no need for high octane in an engine not designed to take advantage of it.

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by hdblueangel on 06/16/08 at 21:25:47

Thanks for the info, Paladin, but i really don't understand compression ratio and stroke. Does that mean since the engine hasn't changed in years, that I should just use regular or 89 octane?

thanks.

hd

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by hdblueangel on 06/16/08 at 21:31:02

I just saw pgman's response. So I assume I can use 87. That's great. Even saves me more $ and will be riding with an even bigger smile on my face. ;D

Really appreciate the input everybody.
I'll get more knowledgable as time goes on.

hd
p.s. you peeps here are so nice. what a great forum.

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by seanbo on 06/16/08 at 22:27:58

I know I'm new to the savage, but I have noticed a skicker on my bike on the frame, on the right side of the forks yoke, and it has all kinds of info and on it it says fuel : unleaded gas 91 min.

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by Rockin_John on 06/16/08 at 23:23:13

352327282429460 wrote:

I know I'm new to the savage, but I have noticed a skicker on my bike on the frame, on the right side of the forks yoke, and it has all kinds of info and on it it says fuel : unleaded gas 91 min.

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by hdblueangel on 06/17/08 at 05:22:51

When I filled up at the Shell station, in Miami, I did notice the reference to 10% ethanol.
hd

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by mpescatori on 06/17/08 at 05:41:51

My own personal experience:

- when riding in city traffic, it's all stop&go, lane splitting, weaving, rarely get beyond 40mph in 3rd gear, so... low octane.

- when filling up for a long country run, top gear and an easy 60mph, high octane actually improves performance marginally, but I feel a crisper throttle response so I fuel up with premium.

Consider we only have two grades here in Italy, 94 and 98 octane.

8-)

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by Charon on 06/17/08 at 05:51:19

My 2007 S40 seems to run perfectly well on anything I put in the tank.

Here in Nebraska the Regular is usually billed as 87 octane; the "Super Unleaded with 10% Ethanol" 89 octane. Of late the 10% ethanol blend is about 10 cents cheaper - sometimes more. I started using ethanol blend - then called "Gasohol" - in the early '80s. I have never had any problems with it, in motorcycles, cars, trucks, or power equipment. I do avoid it in gas/oil mixes for two-stroke engines, because of possible phase separation if any water gets into it.

I have read on another forum that recent changes in Federal law designed to promote the use of ethanol allow gas stations to blend up to 10% ethanol into any gasoline, with or without labelling the pump to let you know. "If it comes from the Internet it must be true." If you are alert you can smell the difference while fuelling. There is also a fairly simple test, which I'll describe if anyone is curious.

Most of my equipment recommends against long-term storage with ethanol fuel mixes. The claim is that the ethanol tends to absorb atmospheric moisture, and will cause corrosion. I have not observed this problem, although I admit to trying to find straight gasoline when I think the equipment may not be used for some months.

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by pgman on 06/17/08 at 05:56:24

I wonder why some bikes apparently have a recommendation for 91 minumum? My owner's manual says 87 Octane is all you need, and it's an 03. Perhaps this recommendation changed over the run of model years but that seems odd to me.

Not to sidebar the thread, but I am also becoming frustrated with the Ethanol thing. I would gladly pay a few cents more per gallon to have 100% gasoline. It mostly because I just don't agree with this Ethanol program being shoved down my throat. I think its a tremendously short-sighted solution. So far, every one of the stations I've found in my 15 mile radius of regular riding / driving sells 90/10. I can't seem to find one that doesn't. >:(

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 06/17/08 at 06:00:40

605D51595B5C6D785D5A5C320 wrote:

[quote author=352327282429460 link=1213670339/0#7 date=1213680478]I know I'm new to the savage, but I have noticed a skicker on my bike on the frame, on the right side of the forks yoke, and it has all kinds of info and on it it says fuel : unleaded gas 91 min.

Just went and looked at all mine, and the requirements on the 87 is for: :Low lead or unleaded gasoline. Both of the 99s have the recommendation for a minimum of 91 octane calculated via RON.[/quote]

If I had to guess (and I do, because I'm octane illiterate) I'd bet that they recommend the higher octane fuel because of emissions laws. Same reason they strangle the bike at the factory now days. I read on here about everyone rejetting to "at least 150." My '87 came stock with a 155 main jet. Things have changed some in thirty years.

I need to get Feisty Limited to race me so we can compare the two. She just picked up a really nice '07.

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by mistereman1 on 06/17/08 at 07:30:09

Run regular all the time and once month I add 2-3 ounces of carb cleaner to a full tank. Runs great and no carb troubles in the last 10 years.

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by hdblueangel on 06/17/08 at 07:35:08

Q: Do CITGO products contain ethanol or methanol?
A: CITGO does not use methanol in its gasoline. CITGO gasoline may contain ethanol, but primarily only in select areas where it's the oxygenate of choice to meet federal regulations for reformulated gasoline. Regulations require that if a gasoline contains ethanol, that fact must be posted clearly on the retail dispenser. If you don't see this or a similar posting, the gasoline shouldn't contain ethanol.

i got this from the citgo website... don't know if it helps.

hd

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by hdblueangel on 06/17/08 at 07:57:37

Mistererman, what brand of carb cleaner do you use? One of the posts mentioned about using a carb cleaner that is compatible with rubber.

Thanks.
hd

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by mistereman1 on 06/17/08 at 08:35:29

Walmart SuperTech Carb/Injector cleaner is all I can remember using in my vehicles for years. I haven't noticed any problems with it eating up the rubber either. I replaced the hoses when I had the tank off for repainting last year and the old ones looked OK (I think they were original and over 20 years old!). Replaced all of them anyway though.

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by sjaskow on 06/17/08 at 10:49:46

I started with 93 octane for the first 1500 miles or so and got 56-57 mpg. The only backfires were on shutdown and it was typically little "pooft".

I switched to 87 octane and the mileage stayed the same. I can now make it backfire at will simply by letting the thottle snap closed and pulling in the clutch.

This on a stock '06.

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by SimonTuffGuy on 06/17/08 at 13:40:23

My 07 calls for 87, so that's what I run in it...

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by mpescatori on 06/17/08 at 14:10:24

Keeping in line with the "gasoline" topic, I'd liekto ask:

What kind of gasoline / gasohol am I likely to find in CA / NV / UT / AZ these next few weeks ? Prices ?

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by Todd Perry on 06/17/08 at 17:19:36

7C414D45474071644146402E0 wrote:

Just went and looked at all mine, and the requirements on the 87 is for: :Low lead or unleaded gasoline. Both of the 99s have the recommendation for a minimum of 91 octane calculated via RON. At a total cost of about 20¢ - 30¢ per fill, I've been running 93 octane most of the time in all of my bikes. However, I have to say that when I have filled up with 87 or 89 I've not noticed a difference in performance or any engine noise.
[/quote]

The way I understand it, we're talking apples and oranges here. Or to be more precise, miles and kilometers ;)

RON is a way of measuring octane and most(?) European and Japanese motor manufacturers use it in their technical specs. However, it's not the method used at most American pumps - if you look at the little yellow sticker on the side, you'll see that it's measured as "(R+M)/2".

In that formula, R = RON (which actually means Research Octane Number), and M=MON, which means Motor Octane Number. Both are measures of the performance of a fuel - MON typically refers to performance under a higher severity load than RON (like racing or aviation applications), so for a given fuel, MON is typically a lower number than RON. Anyway, the reason this is important is that the "pump octane" is an average of the two numbers. So, if you have a fuel with say a MON of 83 and a RON of 91....

(91+83)/ 2.... dang, I have to take my socks and shoes off for that one.

So what this means is that if Suzuki says "91 or higher RON".... the 87 gas at an American pump may already meet that spec.

For further info - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

Y'all have fun with the cheap gas, now! (Just broke $4/gallon here at the cheap places today. Urg!)

Regards -

Todd Perry

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by vtail on 06/17/08 at 17:43:21

Anything over 87 is a waist ;D

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/18/08 at 00:21:52

You think I'm gonna hang around & ask the guy after I syphoned his gas?

"Hey, Buddy, what kinda gas ya put in this pickup?"

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by photojoe on 06/18/08 at 07:51:33

Yesterday, I spent about 1/2 hour searching for ethanol free gas in my area of New Jersey. I hit a Getty first and saw the 10% ethanol sticker. Directly across the street was a Citgo, same thing. Up the road: 2 more Citgo's with 10% ethanol, a Shell, BP, 2 Gulf stations, all with the 10% ethanol notice on their pumps. Hit an Exxon station, and didn't see the 10% sticker. I asked the guy running the place if they're using ethanol and he said no. Don't know if I believe him or not.

Right now gas stations have to put the sticker on the pumps letting the consumer know that the gas contains ethanol. The oil companies are fighting to have the notices removed. There's also a class action lawsuit going on right now with boaters against the oil companies regarding ethanol. Story on consumer affairs website here: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/04/ethanol_class.html.

Another thing that I've noticed here is that it's difficult to find 91 octane gas. It's either 87,89, or Premium. No middle ground.

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by Bleemus on 06/18/08 at 10:20:18

I am no expert but I always thought that higher octane fuel burns a bit cooler due to more efficient combustion. Remember some biker saying he used high octane stuff in the summer heat in his aircooled bike. Does this make any sense?

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by bill67 on 06/18/08 at 11:08:00

High octane gas burns slower so should run a little cooler,but I have no idea how much maybe not much at all.

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by photojoe on 06/18/08 at 11:09:24

When I bought my 1987, the previous owner said that he always ran premium, so that's what I was running until I read that it was overkill. I switched to low octane and after a few weeks noticed that my header turned a God awful yellow/blue. It wasn't like that before I switched down. I'm back to using premium gas. It's only a few cents more to fill up with regular being $4.00 and premium being $4.20 in my area. This can easily be debated, but for now it's high octane for me.

Title: Re: What Grade Gas Do You Use?
Post by sjaskow on 06/18/08 at 11:24:00

584550465654415A475C350 wrote:

What kind of gasoline / gasohol am I likely to find in CA / NV / UT / AZ these next few weeks ? Prices ?

Well, I'm in OH, but this http://www.gasbuddy.com/ is a good place to start. However, the more rural areas typically aren't listed and are usually higher.