SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> oil filter cover exploded...seriously
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1211091490

Message started by BurnPgh on 05/17/08 at 23:18:10

Title: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by BurnPgh on 05/17/08 at 23:18:10

Had too much oil in it, so i drained it and refilled to spec. Started her up...in less than 10 seconds "POP" and oil comes pouring out of a gaping hole in the oil filter cover. WTF!? I'm about to part this MFer out.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by verslagen1 on 05/17/08 at 23:39:35

This problem rarely occurs, but it does. The aluminum covers are know to have pores. Corrosion weakens the metal. If you need it, I have a spare cover but it needs polishing.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by BurnPgh on 05/18/08 at 00:01:36

10 minutes of profuse swearing and i went right online to a- make this post b - hit up bike bandit. $40 later this SOB better be running by Friday or you can all have a shot at parts. I understand its an older bike but for christs sake. What if I were on the road as opposed to in my driveway? I'd driven right through the oil puddle and probably be dead. The next bike I own is going to be built from absolute scratch by ME. I will not trust profit minded companies to cut any corner what so ever. Pores in the aluminum? Should've used steel. Now i seriously have to consider tearing the bike down to every single individual part to make sure something else isnt going to blow up, catch fire, fall apart, or disintegrate.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by Reelthing on 05/18/08 at 05:22:34

One other here had that happen a couple years ago - don't remember who it was - they had some good pictures of it - pop'd a hole about the size of a quater - maybe a faulty casting or it had been step'd on - pretty rare event.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by BurnPgh on 05/18/08 at 10:34:53

mine was MUCH larger than quarter. its about 1/2 of a large semi circle. Almost like it was cut. Larger than a silver sollar even.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by verslagen1 on 05/18/08 at 11:24:14

6354545D4559585F56310 wrote:

I remember that too, it was bigger than a quarter, maybe silver dollar size like Burnie says.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by Reelthing on 05/18/08 at 19:43:47

for sure may have been that big - looking for the picture - haven't found it yet

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by BurnPgh on 05/18/08 at 21:41:58

i was just geussing off the top of my head to the size as I was still livid upon posting. Since we're going with "change" as a measurement the crack/hole is about 3-3.5 quarters in length, 1.5-2 quarters tall, 1/2 quarter in depth (as in the metal is sticking out from "flush" about 1/3 in) and its actually closer to 3/4 of such an eliptical shape. I dont have a digi camera but I'll borrow one when I can. No promise on pic quality. The last time i took a picture was years ago with a disposable film camera. I've looked at friends cameras. So many buttons....

Anyway, someone please reassure me i didnt "shed a tear for Ireland" to the tune of $1600 (now $1750) for nothing. the cam chain tensioner deal I expected but this....worries me a bit.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by verslagen1 on 05/18/08 at 23:33:50

were there any marks on the cover prior to it's demise?

I wondering wheather it's a corrosion induced fatigue failure or if it was stuck in any way.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by BurnPgh on 05/18/08 at 23:53:24

no marks. the hole really almost looks like it were cut. Its a pretty clean break.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by skrapiron on 05/19/08 at 04:57:25

You said earlier that the crank case "had too much oil in it".
Running too much oil in the engine can be just as damaging as running too little. The biggest problem is an increase in fluid pressure, due to volume.

Now, look at your oil filter cover. It is a made from cast aluminum. Light, relatively strong, but not all that reslient. The filter is directly below the cover, under contstant spring tension (to hold it in place). The pressure placed on the filter cover is magnified when the engine is started and the oil pump begins to pump pressurized oil through the perimeter of the oil filter, then drawing it through the filter media and back through the center of the filter.

I don't know how long you rode around with the crankcase overfilled, but that and the fact that your 'new' bike is over 13 years old are both contributing factors to the failure.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by thumperclone on 05/19/08 at 07:12:35

" high oil pressure is usually caused by a engine oil too heavy in weight,a clogged oil passage,improper installayion of yhe oil filter or a combination of these items"
spec pressure 7.1 psi > 10.7psi

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by BurnPgh on 05/19/08 at 11:01:07

200 ml too much for less than 10 mi. My clymers says 2 quarts for an oil change so i put in 2 quarts. Rode around a bit, I pull in the driveway and there a bit of smoke. It was obviously burning oil so I checked. A tab bit over the full line and I then notice stamped into the side cover is 1800ml. I drain it, funnel the oil from the drain pan back into quart bottles so I can use the oz/ml measurements on the side and pour back in 1600ml. Start it up for a few, no smoke, turn it off let the oil settle and checked the oil level. Perfectly between the two oil level marks. I then had to go to work and it had started raining pretty nicely as I was draining/refilling with oil so I took the car. I get home. While my freinds putting a new headlight on his nighthawk I start up my bike....POP, oil gushing out. Oil weight 10-40

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/19/08 at 11:33:19

The oil level may have been a contributing factor, as Skrappy said, but, considering the low oil pressure the bike runs, I dont see how 200 ml overfilled would create such a problem alone. The casting was surely not up to snuff. IMO, based on no real experience, one of the biggest problems high iol levels can cause, would be foaming it up if it is high enough to get into the crank path, pounding the oil & making little bubbles,decreasing the oil flow to the top end.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/20/08 at 06:41:34

I've wondered a couple of times if any of these instances might be caused by an oil filter installed backward. Just a thought.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by T Mack 1 on 05/20/08 at 08:31:16

Don't think the oil pressure is a problem. There is a bypass valve there and it's a low pressure engine.

Probably a flaw or like Rob said damage from a previous OOPS.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by verslagen1 on 05/20/08 at 11:22:29

522B4B67656D37060 wrote:

Don't think the oil pressure is a problem. There is a bypass valve there and it's a low pressure engine.

Probably a flaw or like Rob said damage from a previous OOPS.

Any body know what kind of oil pump we have? Is the pressure relatively constant or does it pulse?

This failure is pretty rare or isn't reported here. So we probably have several factors coming together that may be pretty rare. Possibilities are corrosion, impact, fatique, damage, defect and heat.

The one prior to yours I recall now was hole about the size of the filter, about 3/4 moon shape and the round towards the bottom.

My guess is that the failure is due to fatique. But what are the contributing factors. If it were corrosion, then there would be alot more of this. If it were defect then the orientation will be random. If the orientation is identical (and I think it is) then what's common between the two that not common amonst us all? Was the PO someone that kicked the cover whenever he jumped on the bike? Did they fall over on the bike trapping their foot between cover and ground? Did the PO's polish the heck out of these covers? These are all possibilities. But for something that happens once in a several thousand bikes is it worth the effort?

Get a new cover and be safe out there. ;D

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by drharveys on 05/20/08 at 11:35:57

44766176707248457875170 wrote:

I've wondered a couple of times if any of these instances might be caused by an oil filter installed backward. Just a thought.

And once everything has gone "sproing!" it's a bit hard to confirm.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by OU812 on 05/20/08 at 14:54:43

This thread has me thinking as I don't have a Clymers or any other manual. What weight oil is recommended for the 650? Can we see a pic of said hole?

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by thumperclone on 05/20/08 at 15:40:28

796A7D7C636E686A613E0F0 wrote:

[quote author=522B4B67656D37060 link=1211091490/15#15 date=1211297476]Don't think the oil pressure is a problem. There is a bypass valve there and it's a low pressure engine.

Probably a flaw or like Rob said damage from a previous OOPS.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by T Mack 1 on 05/20/08 at 17:35:45

Had my oil pump apart when I rebuilt the motor. Pretty much looks like a auto oil pump (inside & out).

Here two pict's after I put the pump back together and mounted it in the case.

http://www.users.fast.net/~tommack/100_1952.JPG
http://www.users.fast.net/~tommack/100_1953.JPG

The pump is behind the 3 screws that mount the unit to the case.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by BurnPgh on 05/23/08 at 12:10:28

I got pics of the hole from either side...now how in the world do I upload them? Got the new cover, intstalled turn signal/running light conversion kit, new headlight bulb, sprayed the front fender, side covers, and tank with rustoleum black epoxy spray. Turned out pretty well. All's well mechanically (finally).

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by verslagen1 on 05/23/08 at 13:28:44

You have upload them somewhere else (bikepics, savageriders, or your own ISP homepage) and link them here.

The attach button does not work.

Once it's uploaded, right click on photo, select properties, copy address, paste it in post, highlight it, click image button.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by BurnPgh on 05/23/08 at 14:32:18

http://w3.bikepics.com/pics/2008/05/23/bikepics-1298447-320.jpg Thar she blows.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by ero4444 on 10/19/08 at 07:34:53

It looks to me like the filter was backwards, and the filter bypass held the oil pressure back until the building pressure made it fail, so the oil burst the bypass valve and exploded the filter against the cover, and popped the aluminum, maybe starting in a weak spot in an older cover.

Jeez what kind of oil pressure in our engine at idle - I thought it was supposed to be low!

Thank you for posting a picture.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by verslagen1 on 10/19/08 at 08:22:08

Pressure didn't kill the beast.
It was the backwards filter.
Not enough pressure to pop a tissue.
Hmmm, could have been fatigue.
caused by fluctuating pressure, from an oil pump that's constantly gulping air, then oil then air then oil.
that'll do it.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by EssForty on 10/19/08 at 14:46:00

Oil pressure at idle is about 2-4 psi. Under normal operation, let's say 2,000-5,000 rpms it runs about 8-12 psi. On a cold morning at startup you might get 50 psi until the engine warms up. None of those levels could cause failure by themselves. Would not even be enough to explode a soda can.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by serowbot on 10/19/08 at 16:31:25

sure looks like the filter tried to break out....Wow!

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/19/08 at 19:04:52

[quote author=6651564A74434C240 link=1211091490/0#7 date=1211172118]. Since we're going with "change" as a measurement the crack/hole is about 3-3.5 quarters in length, 1.5-2 quarters tall, 1/2 quarter in depth (as in the metal is sticking out from "flush" about 1/3 in) and its actually closer to 3/4 of such an eliptical shape.
*********************************************************
& about $40.00 deep.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by EssForty on 10/20/08 at 16:09:03

I looked at the filter and it has a steel reinforcing rib in it that could be constrained by the inside of the filter compartment and the exterior cover. If that is the case, there is a simple formula that can be used to calculate the thermal stress, assuming the compartment went from 70 degrees to 250 degrees as the oil heated up. The equation reduces to the thermal expansion coeff x the temp change x the youngs modulus of the steel. In short, the thermal stress would be 33,150 psi.

(6.5 x 10-6/oF) (250oF - 70oF)(30 x 106 lb/in2) = 33,150 lb/in2.

I checked the physical properties of cast aluminum and shear strength falls in the 20-34,000 psi range (if it is heat treated). It's lower if the casting is not heat treated. So, in theory, a constrained piece of steel heated from 70 to 250 degrees could cause enough stress to shear a piece of cast aluminum just like the pictures.

So the proposal that a backwards filter, wedged between the interior and exterior case walls could cause the problem seems feasible. The cause would be constrained thermal expansion, not pulsing. If you've ever seen what happens when a steel rod is wedged between two plates and heated up a couple hundred degrees you'd have an idea how quickly pressure can build up.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by verslagen1 on 10/20/08 at 17:36:55

The stress in steel doesn't equal the stress in aluminum.
Thermal stress is not the same as stress due to loads.
and the geometry is different, therefore the equations for stress will be different.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by EssForty on 10/20/08 at 18:14:34

Sure, the stress is in PSI and load is in Lbs. So the cross sectional geometry would determine the stress under a known load. But when you constrain and heat a rod the dynamics are a bit different from hanging a load on a rod. I was just trying to figure out if it was possible to generate enough stress on the casting to create a strain that would cause it to deform and rupture.

The amount of "strain" for an applied stress will be different for aluminum and steel, I agree with that. That is why I multiplied by the elastic modulus. But I would think that stress is stress- the load per unit area, and has nothing to do with material properties. Maybe I am missing something obvious here and if so I stand corrected???

Just trying to figure out some reasonable way to generate enough pressure that the case would rupture and I am open to better explanations.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by verslagen1 on 10/20/08 at 18:43:28

take the thermal expansion coefficient,
times delta T
times a dimension in question such as the overall height
this equals the amount the thing will grow.

there's an equation for loading the center of a plate with deflection,
put in the previous number
somewhere there's another equation for bending moment and shear
add bending moment and shear times cross section is the stress

thens there's the allowable stress for aluminum
that's the number you looked up.
multiply that by the temperature conversion factor and compare

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by Toymaker on 10/21/08 at 02:13:16

instead of all the math...just say "It broke..."

:)

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by EssForty on 10/21/08 at 03:00:13

I didn't go into much detail of my calculations since it probably bores most people who do not wear pocket protectors or have electrical tape on their glasses. Here goes: Youngs modulus relates stress to strain for a given material. Since the assumption is that the steel is constrained by the aluminum case, the length the steel expands is zero. So I actually started as you suggest by determining the length it would expand by being heated from 70 to 250 degrees if unconstrained, and then figured out how much force it would take to squish a piece of steel back to the original length. That puts length on both sides of the equation and length drops out as a factor in calculating stress in this unique case.
The resultant equation is simply stress =coeff of thermal expansion x temp diff x youngs modulus. It always amazes me how much stress can be developed in this scenario. Often the constrained material will bow significantly if the constraining walls do not deform or fail.
So now we have a piece of steel applying 1,000 psi,,,then 10,000 psi...then 25,000 psi against the outer case wall as it heats up but remains constrained by the aluminum. Aluminum loses the arm wrestling match and shears as the steel finally builds up sufficient stress to exceed the shear strength of the cast aluminum. The aluminum will of course fail at the weakest point, usually where there is a defect such as porosity or sand inclusion.

This was just a proverbial "back of the envelope calculation" to see if there was any way to generate even a ballpark number that would explain it. Perhaps it is too simplistic to reduce the filter to a single element.

The failure mode looks like the way a frozen soda can blows up in a freezer. Of course, since water is one of those odd materials that expands, instead of contracts, on freezing, it gives the same failure mode by freezing that steel would provide on heating. It expands, deforms the can a bit then explodes catastrophically when the force exceeds the shear strength of the aluminum.

At any rate, I was just trying to make sense out of it. It would be hard to believe that high cycle fatigue of 10-20 psi oil pressure would fatigue the casting. Constrained thermal expansion is the best idea I could come up with. I'm open to other explanations and more accurate calculations that would eliminate this theory.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by EssForty on 10/21/08 at 03:08:36

172B26172C3A2E22282631430 wrote:

instead of all the math...just say "It broke..."

:)

The proper engineering term would be "she done blowed up". :o

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by curt on 08/29/11 at 11:33:44

This is an old thread, but this just happened to me. I changed the oil and filter a few weeks ago. I rode it several times since, including a day with about 180 miles. Then yesterday I was starting it up and POW! the cover exploded.

This is my first bike and it was the first time I changed the oil and filter on my own. I followed the directions and everything seemed in order when I put it back together, but operator error may still have had something to do with it.

Anyway, here's the aftermath: http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg737/scaled.php?tn=0&server=737&filename=708zoe.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

I'm just glad i wasn't riding at the time, or I'd probably have a few square inches of aluminum in my calf.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by verslagen1 on 08/29/11 at 11:46:08

You got the filter in backwards.
The hole in the filter goes on the spud in the filter cavity (with a o-ring inbetween)
Then the spring which is on a spud on the cover.
You should be able to press the cover in place with your thumb while screwing it down. If you can't push it up against the clutch cover, somethings wrong.

Thanks for the great pic, it will help others not make the same mistake.

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by Serowbot on 08/29/11 at 12:16:54

... didn't quite follow the directions... :-?...

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by runwyrlph on 08/29/11 at 17:30:06

huh!

Lesson is: make sure yer filter is right side up!

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by curt on 08/29/11 at 18:34:20

All righty then.

That's a mistake I won't make again, and like verslagen1 said, maybe someone else won't either. Which reminds me of a quote I once read: "I like learning from my mistakes, but I'd rather learn from yours."

Thanks for the lesson, y'all!

Title: Re: oil filter cover exploded...seriously
Post by Boofer on 08/29/11 at 19:02:03

If my bike has a semi-expensive failure, I hope it is that cover. Ten minutes and a new filter, back riding. I love to ride. I have been noticing some slack in my drivetrain that I think is my countershaft pulley. Thanks to Serenity for blowing his pulley up as an example. I think it'll hold till winter....maybe. Like Justin says, "Just ride it man." ;D