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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Broke yet another bolt...
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Message started by rpgpgmr on 05/14/08 at 17:22:05

Title: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by rpgpgmr on 05/14/08 at 17:22:05

Well while re-installing the cylinder head cover, I broke the bolt inside the exhaust valve cover (the one in there between the valves that helps to hold the cylinder head on). Funny thing is that it was just starting to give resistance. I was applying very little pressure. It wasn't the head that got stipped or even a cross-threading ... it just broke in half!

We're not talking about an older bike either. It's an '05 model that I bought new a year ago this month. It is fascinating how Suzuki has managed to find the absolute cheapest nuts, bolts, and screws in the history of the world. I have replaced soooo many already. This winter I need to take it completely apart and put it back together with quality hardware. Otherwise it may just fall apart on me someday while I'm riding.

Title: Re: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by skrapiron on 05/14/08 at 18:33:23

Suzuki does seem to spec the use of some VERY soft steel when it comes to their fasteners.

Years ago (another lifetime it seems) I was a maintenance techician in the Air Force. On some sub assemblies, we had single use fasteners. You would torque the fastener to recommended specs then secure with a keeper wire. When it came time for disassembly and inspection, the fastener would be removed, discarded and replaced with a new one. It didn't matter how the bolt looked. We never reused a bolt. A good thing too, since we're talking about mulit-million $$$ aircraft. I can see erring on the side of caution.

I wonder if Suzuki does the same. We're all back-yard wrenchers. I don't know of anyone here who is a Suzuki factory trained technician. I'll bet you that if you were to read the Suzuki maintenance guide, it probably states to replace the cylinder head bolts if the head is removed for any reason.

I know I will. When I swap my cam chain later this summer, I'm going to replace all the bolts in the head. It adds $26.00 onto the job, but knowing I can torque the bolts to proper specs without (reasonable) fear of them snapping is priceless.... :P

Title: Re: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by photojoe on 05/14/08 at 18:45:45

I'm preparing to do the oil plug/cap repair and came across an ebay auction for a head bolt set http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290056417928&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019. Figured it would be worth the $25 w/shipping to have extra bolts on hand.

Title: Re: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by verslagen1 on 05/14/08 at 19:38:43

Joe, it states that these are for the covers, usually that means side covers. Best to ask the vendor if also head cover.

Title: Re: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by rpgpgmr on 05/14/08 at 19:39:20

Oh yea. Rule of thumb when you own a Suzuki: When you take something off that still has the factory hardware, REPLACE IT!

Title: Re: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by Keith_T on 05/14/08 at 20:36:52

What were you doing with the head cover? Were you torqueing the head bolts or the chrome cover? I should check the torque on my head bolts since I now have 1000 miles but wonder how much work that is.

Title: Re: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by photojoe on 05/14/08 at 21:31:53

3D2E3938272A2C2E257A4B0 wrote:

Joe, it states that these are for the covers, usually that means side covers. Best to ask the vendor if also head cover.

Nice catch Vers!

It seems like every nut/bolt on my bike is fragile, not because of build quality, but the bike being left in the elements by the p.o. for who knows how long. Lots of rust and oxidation in every nook and cranny. No idea when the last time a nut or bolt was turned before I got my hands on it.

Title: Re: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by verslagen1 on 05/14/08 at 22:22:30

I guess I shoulda said I know 1st hand about this. I bought a set before I did the cam chain with no intent that I would replace the head cover screws. And at the time no thought about the carb screws either. But when I did, looked and found no screws were included for that or the carb. Nice guy thou, I had asked for a few extra's for the side tin's and he threw 'em in.

And I'd recommend the Stainless steel variety, these don't seem to be.

Title: Re: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by Robertomoe on 05/14/08 at 23:17:33

at least your bolts werent rusted in... the CM 450 I'm going to get given to me has some nasty ones

Title: Re: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by smokin_blue on 05/15/08 at 03:38:31

5D4E5958474A4C4E451A2B0 wrote:

V-man, I am sure you are aware of this but just a tip for those who are not familiar with SS fastners. There is one key for using them in aluminum. Make sure you use ANTI-SIEZE or you will hate yourself later! >:( Fundamentally aluminum and SS don't get along so well in long term close contact. A good anti seize will deal with that. ;)

Title: Re: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by rpgpgmr on 05/15/08 at 04:28:35

Keith, yes I was torquing the head bolts. I was finishing up my 7500-mile service, which includes taking off the cylinder head cover and torquing those head bolts to 29-33 Nm.

Note, in the SSM it said that there are 4 bolts, but on my '05 there were only 3. Additionally it said that these are 9mm bolts, but mine were 14 mm. A change through the years, or a serious misprint?

Title: Re: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by skrapiron on 05/15/08 at 05:03:30

Why did you take off the cylinder head cover for the 7500mi maintenance? You aren't talking about the 2 chrome trim pieces on the sides, are you?

To check the valve clearance, there are 2 inspection doors built into the head cover. Each are held in by 10mm bolts. To check the valves, you remove the 2 chrome side covers, then remove the inspection doors. There is no reason to remove the entire head cover to do the maintenance....

Depending on how deep the bolt was when it snapped, you may be able to get it out with an easy-out, without disassembling the head. If not, its about a 3 hour job to remove it from the bike and strip it to the cylinder case.

Good luck......

Title: Re: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by Keith_T on 05/15/08 at 05:35:13

292B3C2B3C36295B0 wrote:

Keith, yes I was torquing the head bolts. I was finishing up my 7500-mile service, which includes taking off the cylinder head cover and torquing those head bolts to 29-33 Nm.

Were the head bolts out of spec?

Title: Re: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by rpgpgmr on 05/15/08 at 08:07:16

Skrapiron, no I wasn't checking the valve clearance. I did that a few days ago. Part of the maintenance is to torque the bolts under the cylinder head and reseal it with Suzuki Bond 1216. The actual head cover, not just the chrome side covers, must be removed to get to these bolts. The broken bolt is in a place where I can't get to it with a drill or anything other than a 10mm offset wrench ... so the entire engine must be removed. :'( So ya know what, I'M LEAVIN' IT IN THERE!! It's deep enough to where I don't think it will vibrate out and there are 8 or 10 other bolts holding the head cover on. It's just not worth all that work to me--not to mention I'll probably screw up something else while attempting to remove the engine.

Keith, no they weren't out of spec. It was all for nothing. Figures. ;D

Title: Re: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by skrapiron on 05/15/08 at 13:09:44

Oh Snap.

I never pulled my head to check those bolts. You're talking about the 4 lurking under the head cover aren't you....

Well, I've got over 30k on my bike now and it hasn't shown any ill effects from NOT pulling the head cover and torquing those bolts. I guess I have a few more things to do when I swap my cam chain later.....

Title: Re: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by rpgpgmr on 05/15/08 at 13:26:09

Well that's the thing, the SSM says that there are 4 in there, but there were only 3 on my '05 model. They weren't even 9mm like it said they would be, they were 14mm!! Those were the only bolts under there and they were exactly in the same place as the diagram in the manual so I know that's them. Go figure. ::)

I wouldn't stress over it too much, mine were showing NO signs of loosening after 7500.

Title: Re: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by Max_Morley on 05/15/08 at 20:39:48

First off the studs the nuts fit on are the 9 mm parts they are referring to as we don't classify metric fasteners by the hex, the brits did that with Whitworth wrenches. 2nd the 4 th. one is under the often mentioned plug that leaks just behind the exhaust header. Max

Title: Re: Broke yet another bolt...
Post by steely on 05/16/08 at 16:30:33

26383A3E3C3B0A37392030550 wrote:

Should you be too cheap to purchase some anti-sieze (heaven forbid): a bottle of MOM (Milk Of Magnesia) will do nicely. An old hotrod buddy of mine showed me this trick. This guy used to maintain gas turbine engines for a living. He told me that they were having a problem with a few SS bolts always seizing and breaking when they tried to remove them. A guy from the factory came out and showed them that they needed to dip the bolts in MOM before they put them in. Apparently, MOM has chalk in it. The chalk will discolor, but not burn away and always act as a barrier between the dissimilar metals, just like modern anti-sieze does.