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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Look familiar?? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1209436367 Message started by J Mac on 04/28/08 at 19:32:46 |
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Title: Look familiar?? Post by J Mac on 04/28/08 at 19:32:46 http://fortbendthinker.us/tempimg/spacer.jpg I've been listening for almost a year to many of y'all dudes talking about the half spacer mod. "Blah blah half spacer blah blah blah half spacer...", etc. I heard it so much that I started to dream it (plus the mixture screw behind the brass plug). I finally started working on it, and see the picture above for what happened. Surprised? I think not. I read that the screws are a common complaint. Here are some of the not-so-comical things that happened which reminded me of my younger years, when things like this happened nearly every week. 1. Stripped one carb cover screw with a screwdriver (Stanley that was a hair smaller and pointier than the required Phillips #2 from Craftsman). 2. Stripped two other screws with what seemed like a better Phillips head attached to a ratchet. 3. After removing one screw properly with a #2 Craftsman Phillips bought the next day, I got the other 3 off using needle Vise Grips. That was after I had broken a brand-new screw extractor (tap) on the first try. 4. It then went well until somehow the needle spring got hung up on the tiny washer as I was trying to screw the needle cover plate back on. 5. Unjamming that caused me to lose the tiny washer on the garage floor for 40 minutes. I had bent the plate, so hammering that back flat again removed the infamous dimple. 6. It started to go well again as I put the 4 new allen-head carb cover screws back on. Then I noticed I had forgotten to put the slide spring back in. Whee. 7. I nearly screwed up the plastic screen on top of the petcork due to trying to put it in *after* I bolted the tank back down. My backing out the mixture screw 2.5 turns was uneventful, thankfully. I also replaced my petcork vacuum line with fresh fuel line, and I tightened up the rubber ducting on both sides of the carb. It seemed plenty loose. After all this trial and error, I'm happy with the result. The bike seems smoother with some more guts, and I feel more confident at highway speeds. I hope the MPG hasn't gone into the gutter now. The backfiring is now more of a rumble, and that annoying bucking when you start to lug the engine isn't as pronounced. I remember having a guy sort of laugh at me once as I did a buck-fest in a parking lot once in 1st gear. My advice to those doing a spacer mod for the first time is to go slow and make sure you have a high-quality #2 Phillips at the least. Hammer it into place before trying to turn any screws. If that won't work, drill into the top of the screws some and use needle vise grips. |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by Reelthing on 04/29/08 at 07:21:41 you bet - wouldn't you like to feed those soft machine screws to what ever bean counter saved 10 cents |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by Chopped on 04/29/08 at 07:52:28 I think this post almost goes into the Moron Hall of Fame after you clearly read the other posts in regards to the topic, but great job none the less! Always fun tinkering! |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by J Mac on 04/29/08 at 17:59:43 It wasn't my fault! Well, some of it was. I thought about putting it there, but I couldn't remember the thread name. My problem is that I dive into things and refuse to take a break or eat, which compounds the klutziness. I know what I'm doing, but I don't know when to break. |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by Ed L. on 04/29/08 at 18:05:06 ROTFLMAO, we all have done it :D |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by steely on 04/29/08 at 20:21:19 3D362E083A36343C570 wrote:
I am the same way. However, it reaches a point when I am going to screw up more stuff than I am going to fix. I have reached a point, over the course of many years, when I realize that I am there. I know at that point, no matter how much I want to press on, I have to stop. If I don't, it will cost me more to fix what I am about to screw up than it would have in the first place. This feeling is not infallible, but it is pretty accurate. |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by J Mac on 04/30/08 at 20:26:52 Haha, very well put, steely. I need to get more "in tune" with this feeling. Today I replaced the brake pads (EBC red). It's a much simpler job, hence I didn't have time to really screw anything up. |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by smokin_blue on 05/01/08 at 15:20:41 Back in '89 I while in the shop I paid $18 for one Snap-On #2 phillips screw driver. I still use it and when it wears out I get a free replacement. The price about killed me at the time but I have to say now it was worth every penny! A side comment but back about then someone once said the Japanese #2 screw head had different specs than an American #2 so many screw drivers didn't fit them well. Don't know for sure. Also another trick to keep a screwdriver from camming out is to put some valve lapping compound in the head first. The fine abrasive paste can provide just enough friction and bite to avoid frustration. |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by 1st2know on 05/01/08 at 17:02:35 I try to replace all my screws with hex bolts, but some just cant be replaced. With Japanese MCs and cars, it's good to have a couple of JIS Cross Point screwdrivers. In Japan they don't always use "Phillips" and will use the Japanese standard screws. The slots are wider, and the point is deeper that the Phillips. I've seen these as 1/4 inch bit snap ins for about $4 each in hobby shops (ouch), but they do fit right in there. That stripping is a result of the American Phillips a) not seating b) having too much room to wriggle around. We see and feel the driver seat in the screw, so we give the thing a turn - metal shavings - crap! On the Savage, the screw holding the side covers in are phillips, but all the other ones I ran in to are JIS. |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by KwakNut on 05/02/08 at 00:29:17 I always thought the Japanese screws were Posidrive rather than Philips. Posidrives actually give a significantly better surface contact and take a lot more torque without stripping. In the UK your toolbox has to contain both because of the mix of metric and imperial tools required for our cars - though to be honest, everything new has been metric for a few years now. Have to admit, though I really loathed the metric system to begin with. I've evolved over 20 years or so to preferring it for tools and tolerating it for other things, but I still prefer pounds, gallons and miles! |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by KwakNut on 05/02/08 at 00:35:20 576B7D775269681C0 wrote:
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by J Mac on 05/03/08 at 08:21:56 Yikes, I knew I was short on tools, but it looks like now I have to worry about JIS and Posidrive. My life story includes a chapter on doing ill-advised jobs with the wrong tools. I still don't have that air compressor and impact wrench. The Metric system is great for tools and physics/chemistry/engineering, but I don't care for it in daily life. I don't like to think about km/h or kilograms. I was surprised a while ago to learn that the UK still uses both systems (English and Metric). Well, English was yours to start with, and I'm glad the UK and Australia still seem to understand it. I'm also glad the US haven't been pressured too much to change here for the sake of Europe/CA/MX. It seems like there was a push in the 70s for us to change. |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by Gort on 05/03/08 at 10:17:57 665A4C466358592D0 wrote:
Whitworth made the finest screws, bolts, nuts and washers. The rest of the world should have converted to it. |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by rigidchop on 05/03/08 at 10:44:58 i used a cut off wheel to make slots into the screws so that i could remove them with a flat screwdriver. still using them. |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by ALittlebird on 05/03/08 at 12:36:09 For my 40th birthday my awesome Dad gave me the huge craftsman set of socket wrenches that included metric and american, different shaped driver bits, short and long extenders and various other things. While my sister thought it was the stupidest present ever I have thanked my Dad many times over for it. The case weighs a ton but I can get to everything on the Savage I need to with those tools. Just wish Dad was still around to see my on the bike. He always wanted a BMW but never got one. |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by Reelthing on 05/03/08 at 14:44:47 who knows - may be watching, so do him proud! |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by Toymaker on 05/03/08 at 17:35:24 Believe it or not, I have a brand new set of combination wrenches that are WHITWORTH!...cost me plenty. I had a Morris Minor in New Zealand and needed the set. I bought the set and then we moved and I sold the pickup...loved my little Morrie. :) :) |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by Digger on 07/29/08 at 20:38:39 73313670292C2D35420 wrote:
Well said. You can find JIS Phillips screwdrivers here (among other places): Ames (http://www.amessupply.com/products1.cfm?aid=1&cid=D&sid=DE&fid=1404070) More info on JIS Phillips screws (just look for "JIS" in the article): Screws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screws) The trick to differentiating a JIS Phillips screw from a "regular" Phillips screw is to look for a small dot embossed into the screw head to one side of the cross slot. Ironically, the JIS standard arose as an attempt to prevent cam-out of Phillips screws. ::) IHTH someone! |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by Jay on 07/29/08 at 23:35:07 J Mac, Reading your post made me laugh. It was as if you'd been looking over my shoulder recording me as I did my carb mod. As was said here earlier, "we've all been there!" Smoother sailing to you. |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/30/08 at 00:05:00 The way I see it working goes like this. A tool maker goes to a screwmaker & says, "I'll pay for the tooling if you'll make a new threaded fastener head, shaped like "This" ( Holding up a model of some oddball shape no one has ever seen before). The Screwmaker builds millions of them, selling them to automakers & appliance manufacturers & people in all kinds of manufacturing. Soon, the people need to fix it & must buy the tools to turn the screws & again, we head to the store, in an endless parade, buying once more that tool to turn the ever more efficient screw head design. Efficient? Yes, Screw? Ohh yes, its a "Screw" allright, one more in a long line of them. |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by Toymaker on 07/30/08 at 04:25:36 7241475B4641330 wrote:
Whitworth made the finest screws, bolts, nuts and washers. The rest of the world should have converted to it.[/quote] Hey Gort...I have a brand new set of Whitworth combination wrenches and a set of used sockets....I got them to work on a Morris Minor Pickup I owned....beautiful stuff, really. |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/30/08 at 07:01:53 Maybe I have a JIS or 2, or maybe a Reed & Prince, but I call all of the screwdrivers that arent straight, Phillips. I had no idea JIS existed, still dont "Get what Reed & prince is & how to know when I need a screwdriver for any of the aforementioned oddballs. How do I identify JIS screwdrivers to know I am fitting the JIS screw, that I KNOW is JIS, because of some dot they hid on it somewhere that I dont remember ever seeing. I need to know, cuz I booger screw heads up plenty. I can feel the bit isnt Just Right, but, I have had no idea there were so many types of Cross Head screws. Whats a Posidrive & how do I know its a posi & how do I know I have a posi driver? Same for all of them,, The smart head ( IMO) would be one that cams out tightening & wont cam out loosening & UH Huhh, I could build it.. Oughta be easy enough. |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by J Mac on 08/04/08 at 22:51:12 Thanks, Jay, things have been pretty smooth as of late. I keep losing things in the frame of the bike, but that's life. The other day the top of the petcock screen popped off in the tank. I got it out. Hey, are the screws on the back of the petcock JIS? They seemed like it. You seemed to be able to use flathead OR Phillips in them. Yeah, Phillips are GREAT. The screwdriver never slips out until you strip the screw head. Long live the Torx and Allen brothers. |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/05/08 at 06:27:17 So, some screws have a dot, others are shaped a tiny bit diofferent, How am I to know what screwdriver I have in my hand? I have some cross tips that have a PH on them, some a P, is the P posigrip? PH Phillips? How do I make sure I have the right "phillips head" in the right screw head before I mess it up? I just poke one in & wiggle a bit, if it feels sloppy or if I can see the engle of the egdes of the driver tip are not going out to the end of the slots, then I hunt a different shape tip. |
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Title: Re: Look familiar?? Post by ratdog472 on 08/05/08 at 08:11:34 283731362B2C1D2D1D25373B70420 wrote:
Torx bits anyone?? Or security torx? |
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