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Message started by Latimer on 03/23/08 at 13:58:23

Title: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Latimer on 03/23/08 at 13:58:23

Sorry this might be kinda long....

I have a 96 Savage that I purchased last summer with 1800 miles on it. Put about 1000 miles on it last summer and am now in the middle of getting it ready for this season.

Well yesterday I put the battery back in and fired it up, after some work I managed to get it going but it would only turn over for about 5-10 seconds before dying, if I let it idle it would die right away. After doing this a few times I notice a serious amount of fuel dripping down from above and in front of the carb. If I switched the fuel line to PRI the fuel would keep trickle for a time, even with the bike off.

So after seeing this I did the following:

1. Took off the fuel tank and tested all the fuel lines, all were good
2. Replaced the spark plug
3. Charged the battery
4. Put it all back together and gave it another shot

It fired right up and sounded much better than before, but then after about 20 seconds of idling the fuel leak came back. So I took it back apart and after lots of trial and error I finally found the leak, it was coming from the 2 vent hoses attached to the carb.

So I'm thinking I have a problem inside the carb, however I have no experience with carbs so I am very hesitant to open it up. So here is my question, I took the carb out today and am going to give it to a mechanic friend who will have a look at it, but I went on ebay and bought a "Stage 1 jet kit that includes a #50 Slow jet, a #150 main jet, 2 new needle spacers and 4 new allen head bolts to replace your soft phillips head vacuum lid bolts".

Is it ok for my friend to simply install these pieces in the stock carb even though I have the stock muffler? I've read a lot of posts on here about the stock carb running too lean (backfires) and am under the impression that this kit I bought will fix that problem.

Hopefully while he is in the carb he will find the source of the fuel leak as well.

Sorry if my terms are a little off here, Im very new to any mechanical work and I've only been riding a year.....

Any insight would be appreciated on the jet kit or the possible cause of the leak.

Thanks....

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by demin on 03/23/08 at 14:11:43

While he has it apart,you might want to put a needle,and seat in it.That's usually the problem when they leak.

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Latimer on 03/23/08 at 14:24:34

So the stock needle and seat should be replaced? Will do.. should I just order the OEM parts or is there an 'upgrade'?

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Toymaker on 03/23/08 at 14:25:27

I had a very similar problem. Here's what I did.

I changed the needle valve and seat. Upon very close inspection, you will see a ring around the tip of the rubber needle end. This will be VERY small and hard to see. Mine was only visible in direct sunlight.

After changed the needle valve and seat, check the float level on your carb. If you can, make it close to 28 mmm. This is measured up-side down. This in effect give you a low fuel level (but within specs).

This should fix your problem.

I pulled my hair out over this one and was about to sell my bike off CHEAP, but this was the fix.

Cheers

T-maker

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by demin on 03/23/08 at 14:30:11

OE parts.I'm not sure if there is an upgrade.If there is LANCER would know.

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Latimer on 03/23/08 at 14:35:54

alright new needle and seat it is. Being a complete noobie, im not quite sure exactly which parts those are.... If I go to bikebandit and then go to the carb section there are a couple of "needle" parts and nothing labeled "seat". Could you guys tell me which pieces you are talking about in the carb diagram?

http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/suzuki-motorcycle-ls650pt-savage-1996/o/m6328

Im assuming #10 is the Needle that I need.... and the #11 is the needle jet that I already got in the "jet kit" package I described above.

thanks....

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by demin on 03/23/08 at 15:20:41

Number 19 : VALVE ASSY,NEED 481751-001

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Latimer on 03/23/08 at 15:40:47

ahh, was hoping it wasnt one of the more expensive parts!

Thanks man

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by verslagen1 on 03/23/08 at 16:25:25

You might read around, someone gave a carb only site.
They had parts sepparately. You might find the needle by itself.
I thought I saw one for about $12 somewhere.

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Latimer on 03/23/08 at 16:51:21

yeah I checked out that carb only site after reading around, it didnt have any of the specific pieces though, looked like it only had the bowl, so I went ahead and ordered the part from Bikebandit. So I'm correct in saying that the #19 piece is the needle valve and seat? Thats all I should need for this right?

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by rpgpgmr on 03/28/08 at 11:50:44

I am also looking at buying one of the Stage I or II jet kits from ebay. Do they seem to work okay for you? I just bought the Screamin' Eagle muffler on ebay for my S40 and want to upgrade the jets too. I posted a question earlier today about which jet kit to buy. I was referred to something that Lancer sells, but I can't find it on here yet.

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Latimer on 03/28/08 at 12:21:49

Not sure how its gonna work yet cause I dont have it back up and running, but when I do get it going I'll make sure to let you know.

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Latimer on 03/30/08 at 11:03:17

Well finally got my carb apart, replaced the main and slow jets with a 150 and 50 and put 2 #4 washers in for the spacer. Cleaned the whole thing (was little bits of gunk in it) and got it back on my bike. It fired right up with the choke on.

After letting it warm up I pushed the choke on and it wanted to die unless I kept it going with the throttle. I went back and forth with this for about 30 minutes but the thing just wouldnt idle without dying. I took it up and down my street to warm it up and it rode just fine, just would always die with idle.

I am now thinking that this is a problem with my mixture idle screw, so I think im going to drill that out and try to get to it. But heres the interesting part, I did all of this work last night, but now I just went out and tried to start it and it wont turn over. Im recharging the battery as we speak (hope its as simple as a weak battery) but im not so sure.

Any thoughts on the inability to idle or why it wont start now?

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by YonuhAdisi on 03/30/08 at 11:08:59

Check connections under the tank, they could have come loose when you re-installed the tank after your carb mods.

As for the dieing at idle, can't help you. I have tried everything suggested on this site and I still can't get mine to stop flooding out and dieing at idle. Hopefully on my next days off, I will have the time to go completely through my carb again and find the culprit.

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by gj859 on 03/30/08 at 11:31:44

Could the reason it won't turn over be one of the safety features? Clutch, neutral, kickstand?

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Latimer on 03/30/08 at 11:38:02

yeah connections under the tank are good. Clutch, neutral, and kickstand are all good. It wants to turn over, you can hear it, its so close, just wont quite turn.

When I had it running last night it was running way too rich. Could this have anything to do with it not turning over?

Still trying to make my way to the idle mixture screw. That darn brass plug doesnt want to come out.

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Reelthing on 03/30/08 at 11:41:30

614C594440485F2D0 wrote:

I am now thinking that this is a problem with my mixture idle screw, so I think im going to drill that out and try to get to it

noway can it run right until you adjust the idle mixture after a change to the pilot jet

won't start? - need more info - do you hear the decomp click?

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Reelthing on 03/30/08 at 11:44:22

6B46534E4A4255270 wrote:

careful on the plug there is a real important screw head just a little ways under it you don't want to bugger

without an adjustment on the mixture and an up size on the pilot jet - you should have been very rich at idle

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Latimer on 03/30/08 at 11:52:16

Yeah the plug wont budge so basically I've drilled it out and now just need to get a smaller flathead screwdriver to get to the idle screw.

It wont start, after I try to turn it over for a while I hear the click click click of the battery. I have the battery hooked up to a trickle charger right now as Im trying to start it....

Also of note, I just tried to start it in first gear as opposed to neutral, the bike lurched forward a tad.... dont think thats good because I had my clutch all the way in.

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Reelthing on 03/30/08 at 11:59:26

507D687571796E1C0 wrote:

when the oil is cold they'll jump like that as the clutch plates do not seperate very well

on the battery - if it's under for sure or close to 12.3v the engine will turn over a bit but will not spark enough start

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Latimer on 03/30/08 at 12:03:38

ok, just hoping its a battery thing. Gonna let this thing charge for a while.

Onto the idle screw. This is it right? Please tell me I didnt drill out the wrong thing on the carb....

http://bp3.blogger.com/_8Gjl28YjLUI/R-_j5hsgDgI/AAAAAAAAADY/8u5tSe-JnjU/s320/idle+screw.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5183612273563799042

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Reelthing on 03/30/08 at 12:10:09

Oh NOOO

naw that's it I was sure hope'n you were on the right thing - one fellow tried to drill out the throttle plate shaft right under it

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Latimer on 03/30/08 at 12:11:06

67505059415D5C5B52350 wrote:

Oh NOOO

naw that's it I was sure hope'n you were on the right thing - one fellow tried to drill out the throttle plate shaft right under it

haha my heart jumped at first there.

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Reelthing on 03/30/08 at 12:14:04

when you get sme life back in the battery - lightly seat the mixture screw (turn clockwise) and for grins count how many turns out it was

since you up'd the pilot jet open it 1 out (turn CCW) should be able to idle from there if not up the idle speed a little

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Latimer on 03/30/08 at 14:44:33

well ive really done it this time, i drilled too deep into the plug and nipped the screw. I think ive ruined the head of the screw. Anyone done this? Anyone know a good way to get replace the screw without taking apart the whole carb?

Title: Re: Leaking Carb Question
Post by Reelthing on 03/30/08 at 15:23:23

several folks have done that - some have managed to cut a new slot - hope some will chime in