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Message started by Jimworx on 03/14/08 at 09:56:24

Title: Difficulty starting
Post by Jimworx on 03/14/08 at 09:56:24

Hi everyone. I have a '96 Savage with around 17,000 miles. I find that my bike is having difficulty starting, especially on cold days. It would often run the battery down without it starting. Is there anything I can do to make the bike start faster? What gets worn through the years? If I boost it with a car, then it starts after a few cranks. Now about the car thing..it won't even start with the car off. It would only start if the car was running. It seems to need a lot of power to get things going. Any thoughts?

Title: Re: Difficulty starting
Post by ChicagoRider on 03/14/08 at 10:04:41

How old is the battery? I would condider getting a brand new battery.

Title: Re: Difficulty starting
Post by Jimworx on 03/14/08 at 10:07:02

The battery is only 6 months old.

Title: Re: Difficulty starting
Post by bill67 on 03/14/08 at 10:30:04

You have to have cars running to start another car or motorcycle.
check the water in battery.

Title: Re: Difficulty starting
Post by furious70 on 03/14/08 at 10:54:11

Quote:

You have to have cars running to start another car or motorcycle.

This isn't true as a rule. It may be true for the setup Jimworkx has, if he has weak batts all around. I've started my Dodge diesel with just the extra help of a 2nd battery in my Fury, without starting it. If that works for a diesel, it outta for a Savage.

I have noticed my wife's Savage does need a good full charge in the batt for it to start. If not, it'll crank and crank (fast enough that it should fire) but it just won't start. Hook my booster pack up to it and it immediately starts and runs fine.
Had a friend with an 83 Nighthawk that was the same way. The ignition must be very sensitive to voltage?

Title: Re: Difficulty starting
Post by verslagen1 on 03/14/08 at 11:37:36

I guess if can be said 'I don't know what they were thinking when they designed this'.
Yes you can spin the engine a good long time and not get it started. The ignition circuit is sensitive to slightly low voltage. 2 ways to get around it, keep it charged or push start it.

My push start tech takes advantage of the battery being able to spin the motor. Clutch in, 1st gear, push it up to 10mph, push starter, let it rev a little, let clutch out and it should start after a chug or 2. after you let out the clutch release starter button.

This works if you still have all of the stock interlocks cause you can't engage the starter with the clutch out so it automatically will stop the starter when you let out the clutch. Once the starter is longer draining the battery, you'll have enough power for the ig circuit to work.

The starter also has a one way clutch so you can't grind the gears like when in a cage. ;D

Title: Re: Difficulty starting
Post by KwakNut on 03/14/08 at 11:38:02

Even a small car battery has so much extra current available for the bike that you shouldn't need to have the car motor running.

The fact that you do means you're needing more voltage to your bike's starter. That may be because you have bad connections - check the condition of the bike's battery leads, and the earth strap to your motor. If they are corroded or loose there will be a big voltage drop across them, hence the need for the car motor to be running for a couple more volts.

Or, could be your starter is on its way out and needs a rewind.

Title: Re: Difficulty starting
Post by bill67 on 03/14/08 at 12:50:28

I've always had to have the car running since they stitch from generators,maybe 30 years ago.

Title: Re: Difficulty starting
Post by furious70 on 03/14/08 at 14:06:55

Quote:

I've always had to have the car running since they stitch from generators,maybe 30 years ago.

If you put a multimeter across your batt with the car off you should see better than 12v if the batt is charged and in good shape. Anything bigger than 500cca should start a bike like nothing. With the car running you'll see ~14v if it's charging decent.

With a dead batt in my diesel I've hooked up to the red top optima in my Fury and lit my diesel right up, without starting the Fury.

Title: Re: Difficulty starting
Post by barry68v10 on 03/14/08 at 15:33:12

I've recently noticed that my bike has become finiky when trying to start also. Adjusting the idle screw and idle mixture solved the problem for me, but it would ALWAYS start no matter what if it was hooked up to a battery charger.

Boy, I miss kick starts! If you could combine a manual decomp with a kick starter, one easy push would fire it up... ::)

Title: Re: Difficulty starting
Post by Rockin_John on 03/14/08 at 16:05:44

Whether or not the vehicle giving the jump should be started when giving a "jump" start depends on the vehicles involved.

As Bill says: lots of late model cars need the extra couple of volts from the donor car's alternator spinning to activate their sensitive electronic ignition.

OTOT, a vehicle like a diesel with glow plugs and no spark type ignition might start just fine with a 12V jump.

Also, some vehicles make poor "donor" for jump starting. I've known of some to have their electronics get fried by the load of starting the other vehicle, or the sudden current inrush of the vehicle being started suddenly surging a large amperage charge when it's high powered alternator comes on line.

Sure, I've jumped all sorts of 12V vehicles from one another... Using a motorcycle to jump the lawn tractor; a car to start the big tractor etc... I've even successfully used a motorcycle to jump start a car; by allowing the cycles generator/engine some time hooked up and running to get the car's battery partially charged.

But everyone should be aware that not all vehicle electrical, and certainly not their charging systems, are compatible. There is always the possibility of damage to one vehicle or another when "jump-starting" vehicles with cables. I'll give this hint though: sometimes it helps to run the "ground" cable from frame to frame instead of from battery negative to negative. But that's still no guarantee. Hate to say it, but when I'm in a newer vehicle and some poor citizen is wandering around a parking lot looking for a jump start; I usually beg off. Back years ago, even in old 70s cars and trucks with an alternator, I'd gladly offer to help someone get started. But nowadays, I'm not risking thousands of dollars in wiring and computer crap in my vehicle because someone else doesn't have an auto club card to get a free jump. :-X ::) :-/

Title: Re: Difficulty starting
Post by rigidchop on 03/14/08 at 20:03:56

i use a rather large battery from a dozer, that handles all of my jumpstarting needs. and i keep it on the floor of my garage (for the past three years)