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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Whale /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1205292181 Message started by Onederer on 03/11/08 at 20:23:00 |
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Title: Whale Post by Onederer on 03/11/08 at 20:23:00 I just got the front wheel done, and took it for a short ride. The swap was mostly straight foward. Took a little off the spacers, had the O.D. of the rotor turned down, and spaced the caliper 5.5mm. I'll wait a week or so till I start on the rear, and it's looking like I'm gonna do a chain conversion, just to make the swap a little easier, unless once I get started, I find adapting the pulley won't be too involved. http://p1.bikepics.com/2008/03/11/bikepics-1213434-full.jpg http://p1.bikepics.com/2008/03/11/bikepics-1213437-full.jpg A couple days earlier, I moved the voltage regulator to the muffler bracket. I'm thinking the reg being under the seat was causeing it to overheat and letting the battery overcharge and dry out. Only had to lenghten two wires. The other yellow wires were easily re-routed. I did'nt cut any wires, just unpluged them from the factory conector, added some extra length, crimped on some factory style terminals, and pluged everything back in. There was some discoloring on the fender under the reg, that seems to be from heat(yellowing of the finish). http://p1.bikepics.com/2008/03/11/bikepics-1213433-full.jpg |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by Reelthing on 03/11/08 at 21:13:45 good job! - the fender looks full what size is the front - fills it like a 110/90-19 |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by jk on 03/12/08 at 07:24:14 Outstanding! Looks great! |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 03/12/08 at 07:57:03 I'm green with envy What did you do with the disk? I didn't think it would fit in the savage caliper. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by Savage_Rob on 03/12/08 at 08:16:13 Very nice! |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by Onederer on 03/12/08 at 08:52:14 The tire is a 100/90, but I thought the origional tire filled the fender more. The disc is a GS solid rotor. I just had the O.D. turned down to match the O.D. of the Savage rotor. The Savage has a min thickness of 4mm and the GS is 4.5. My pads had just a little wear, but the thicker GS rotor fit in real easy, and I don't think new pads will cause any problems.If anyone was concerned about it, they could just have the rotor thickness machined down to that of the factory rotor, there is plenty of meat. I used the GS rotor because it has a lot of offset, which after I got the axle spacers rite, only required the caliper to be spaced in 5.5mm. This really is a easy thing to do, just took me a lot of test fits with the axle spacers because I had nothing to go by. I think anyone that can remove and replace the wheel should be able to do this. My cost was less the $100 for everything involed, but I was already running a tubless tire on front, so if someone bought a new tire at the same time, cost should be $200 or less. One thing that is really important, is if anyone decides to have the wheel powder coated, to not have the O.D. of the wheel hub where the rotor goes, powdered, otherwise the rotor won't go on. I'm not completely sure how much I took off of the axle spacers, because I got busy trying to fit it, any lost track of the measurments. I scribbled some things down, but I don't think they're correct. BTW, there was'tn any modifications to the bearings, they are allready the rite size, ditto for the rear wheel I'll be using. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by PerrydaSavage on 03/12/08 at 08:58:17 Absolutely outstanding! Love the look! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 03/12/08 at 09:28:45 I got a wheel set from a GS650 GL. Front and rear disks incl'd ;D I have the calipers for both as well, and rear master. ;D Just no time to mess with it. :'( I thought the disk was about twice as thick as the savage, but now I'll have to measure it. I hope it was an optical illusion. Or you got a skinny disk off of what GS? |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by steely on 03/12/08 at 19:03:16 Dammit, now you have me thinking about how I can fit the mags off of my 850 onto the 650. If I didn't have plans to bob it (the 650), I would have the wheels off of both tomorrow evening. That looks outstanding, I like it very much. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by Onederer on 03/12/08 at 19:04:58 The disc I used came off a 450GS. I have some from a 550?, but they have the cooling slots, and after being machined, some of the slots would've been cut into. There seems to be quite a few GS wheels and parts that will interchange. I just used these wheels because I won't have to mod the rear brake in any way. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 03/13/08 at 17:31:02 for those interested http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FRONT-WHEEL-BRAKE-DISK-GS450-SUZUKI-GS-450-TWIN-1981_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247QQcategoryZ35601QQihZ001QQitemZ110218425982QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by rigidchop on 03/15/08 at 07:22:20 that looks really good. could you post a side shot of the whole bike? what was the weight difference between spoked and cast wheels? |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by Onederer on 03/15/08 at 09:14:51 554E404E43444F4857270 wrote:
Thanks. I'll post a whole side pic of the bike when I get the rear done.Kinda like a grand unveiling. I think the weight is close to same, but the mass is more centalized on the cast wheel. I only guessed weight difference on wheels by holding them without rotor, and tire on each, and both felt close. The difference is the tube and rotors. The GS rotor I used weighs more than the standard Savage, but the Savage rotor and tube combined more than make up for the difference. I used a bungie cord to hang these from, then measured the distance to the floor, crude, but it showed the Savage rotor and tube combined, weigh 4" more ::). Loosing the tube helps centralize the mass, and should allow for an acceleration increase. I did'nt have an accurate scale, so it would be interesting to really know the wieght difference. If the whole set up is lighter, then the whole suspension should also work better. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by sluggo on 03/15/08 at 10:56:06 imho mags on a motorcycle are just wrong. mags along with windshields belong on a cage. :D but i've always said. 'whatever floats your boat", if it works for you then hey go for it. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by Onederer on 03/15/08 at 11:23:21 7D627B6969610E0 wrote:
Wish there were "mags", then they would be even lighter, but they're just cast aluminum. I like the nice color flames mags make when they're on fire, and how there is nothing anyone can do to put them out, just watch. I wonder how many VW Beetle's have actually had a leaking carb that caused those lovely mag cases to show their tru colors? |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by sluggo on 03/15/08 at 13:34:43 i had a loose connection on my 68 vw carb. it would pop out and spew fuel. i only flamed it twice. one time the fumes filled the heater path and that was a nice little flame out. i've always been able to put it out before it got out of hand. hanging around the track i've seen my share of mag fires. fun to watch . |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by Reelthing on 03/15/08 at 21:33:55 435C4557575F300 wrote:
toss a little water on one - boy howdyyy |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 03/24/08 at 17:12:40 6C4D464746514651230 wrote:
I got a GS450 disk today, mates up with the GS650 wheel just fine. Thanks for the info. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by Onederer on 03/25/08 at 08:21:34 485B4C4D525F595B500F3E0 wrote:
I got a GS450 disk today, mates up with the GS650 wheel just fine. Thanks for the info.[/quote] Super, can't wait to see it done. I think you are useing a different style wheel than me? Anxious to see it. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 03/25/08 at 08:56:28 Here's the front with the GS650 disk in a trial fit before I got the 450 disk. Got a rear to match. http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/WheelMod/DSCN0237-small.jpg |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by Savage_Rob on 03/25/08 at 09:55:56 Based on the slot direction, I think that disc is on backward. I don't know that it makes a lot of difference but the holes are usually intended to be inner leading and outer following. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 03/25/08 at 11:14:07 You might note that the spokes are on the wrong side of the disk. :o I put the wheel in backwards after discovering that the disk was too thick. But the spacers were real close to being right. ;D |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by rigidchop on 03/25/08 at 15:04:54 what size back wheel are you guys gonna run? mine has a 17 incher. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 03/25/08 at 17:19:47 58434D434E4942455A2A0 wrote:
On the savage? :o I have a 16, might have to run a 130. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by Onederer on 03/25/08 at 19:09:15 The one I'm useing is a 16". I'll be runing a 130 so I can put my saddle bag supports back on. Just for kicks I might put a Harley brand dunlop on it, plus Harley riders are getting 12,000-plus miles on em. http://p1.bikepics.com/2008/02/21/bikepics-1191742-200.jpg |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 03/25/08 at 19:53:11 I don't see that we got much choice concidering that I only got about 5/8" clearance with the 140. You can go bigger, just don't pick up anything in your tire. D404's 140/90-15 is 24.73" od 5.85w 9/32td 130/90-16 is 25.16" od 5.19w 9/32td 150/80-16 is 25.35" od 5.81w 9/32td Sure like to try the 150 8-) BTW: HD tires are bigger except for the K591 130 and it has less tread. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by demin on 03/25/08 at 20:07:50 Put a Wild Flare 150 on mine.I had to put button head bolts in the fender,and had to notch fender mounting holes.I had to slide the fender to the right about 1/8". http://www.bikepics.com/pictures/1044526 http://www.bikepics.com/pictures/1044527 |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by Onederer on 03/25/08 at 20:27:08 The stock IRC 140 is much narrower than the Dunlop 404 140, just the difference between what manufatures think a 140 should be. I thought 140mm was 140mm, but I guess it differs :-?. I happened to look closely under the fender, and noticed the 404 140/90/15 has been rubbing in the center of the fender. Maybe thats why the tire life has been so short? There are a couple of Fat Boys in the garage, and the older one has a D401-130 with a 90% aspect ratio, and well over 11,000 miles is often seen. I think that'll work well, unless it rubs the center also, then I'll be forced to get some 11" progrssive 412's, boohoo :). On the bright side, when I order a tire, I can flop out the Harley realted catalogs and gaze wide eyed at the large selection of 16" tires. I think I took 1 and 1.5mm off the front axle spacers, but the greasy page I scribbled on looks like something the cat threw up.Verslagen, what color are you gonna paint the wheels? If I had the funds available, I'd take mine to Street & Performance to have them polished. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by Onederer on 03/25/08 at 20:34:59 06070F0B0C620 wrote:
I've seen those, and they look cool. Maximum milage is what I look for, and if the highest millage tire I could get was baby crap green and glowed in the dark, I'd buy it. If looks could kill, but ugly got me further, I'd go ugly all the way. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by demin on 03/25/08 at 20:42:15 I bought them when I worked at a bike shop,to match the paint.I just saw them in the catolog,and bought them.I have to say they handle pretty good.I wish now that I would have gotten a skinny one for the front.Fat front tire,and no fender or brace makes handling a little slow. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 03/25/08 at 23:16:01 5C7D767776617661130 wrote:
The 401's 130 have a wopping 12/32 of tread 3 more than the 404's! No wonder they go so long. I when I tried it, it looked like it might be a little short. But I think the fork brace was holding it out. I'm a cheap b tard going for ugly. I may rattle can black or the trailer coat stuff some are so found of. Nothing immediately. I want to work it out first. Then pretty. And I'm at the point where I need to change the front tire. I put 10k on it myself. No telling what the PO did. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by sluggo on 03/26/08 at 17:12:50 66474C4D4C5B4C5B290 wrote:
I've seen those, and they look cool. Maximum milage is what I look for, and if the highest millage tire I could get was baby crap green and glowed in the dark, I'd buy it. If looks could kill, but ugly got me further, I'd go ugly all the way.[/quote] when i tried the 150 it wouldn't clear the swing arm.... it's an 04 |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by demin on 03/26/08 at 18:02:04 Maybe a little design change?I've got about 1/4" at the tightest spot.Could be the design of tire too.I think it's Savage Wahine has the same tire I do,on hers.Ithink hers is a newer bike. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 03/26/08 at 18:40:01 could be you gotta longer belt too. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by demin on 03/26/08 at 18:45:54 Only has 7,000 miles shouldn't be too stretched.But who knows ;D. Maybe it's like removing the cylinder head,some will come out,some you have to jack the motor around.Of course when I did my top end the motor had to come out. :( |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 03/26/08 at 18:58:03 Looked at the 401 cheapest is $95 I got the 404 for $65 I put 10k on it. 2k for $30, I'll stick with the 404's 5/8" clearance at the swingarm with a new 140 404. I doubt that all swingarms and belts are created equal. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by steely on 03/26/08 at 19:04:02 I went with the cheap Chinese tires on mine. The Cheng Shin tires on my GS850 have served me admirably. They wear well, grip decently, and the center groove is about the best thing I have found in the rain. I like them. I went to the local bike salvage/after market dealer/RE dealer here in town. I paid a little less than $160 for mine, mounted and balanced. I did have the wheels off of the bike though. They work a darn sight better than the original (20k+ mile) front and squared off back tire that were on it. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 04/27/08 at 21:06:35 Found my hardware for mounting the front disk finally, only a week after I quit looking for it and ordered a new set. Oh well, I'll be better off with a new set of bolts. Cleaned up the rim, mounted a new D404 (he he tubeless) and balanced her. Had trouble getting her to seat. A liberal application of dish washing soap solved that. One of the spacers that came with the wheel (which also included the axle) was just the right size 1.28" and it put the wheel within .02" of being perfectly centered between the forks. OK, one question, I need to make a spacer to align the disk with the caliper. Should I space out the disk or space in the caliper? |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by T Mack 1 on 04/28/08 at 03:08:41 Tough question. Spacing the caliper will keep braking pressure in line with wheel so that it won't pull as much. Spacing the disk would be stronger since it has more bolts. Caliper has what.... two.... The spacers will give more leverage and can stress the bolts. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 04/28/08 at 08:50:28 And I'd rather make the wheel compatible with the savage rather than the savage compatible with the wheel. Hey I get a new letter in my title, will it be LSX650, LX650, OR LS650X ? |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by Onederer on 04/28/08 at 19:43:14 4B584F4E515C5A58530C3D0 wrote:
My observation. Look at how the rotor fits to the wheel. Do you notice there is a lip on the wheel which fits inside the rotor? If you do, that is what keeps the rotor centered on the wheel, and the bolts meerly hold the rotor to the wheel. If you were to space the rotor, and had nothing solid centering it, the bolts and/or spacers will not keep it there. I am thinking the only way to space the rotor would be to have a spacer made which accepts the protruding lip on the wheel and offers one on the rotor side. If you were to look at oversized rotor kits for bikes, you'll notice the kit comes with a new caliper mount to move the caliper farther from center to compensate for the larger o.d. rotor. I simply spaced the caliper, and it has worked fine on the Savage. I was concerned about the rotor not staying perfectly centered, coming loose from spacers, and ultimately causing failure and personal injury. I'm thinking to space the caliper would be safer. Looking foward to seeing some pics. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 04/28/08 at 20:30:30 ;D My rim has a really wide hub for the disk to sit on. I can space the disk out 6mm and still have some left over. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 04/30/08 at 09:55:58 I put it together last night with 5/16" spacers and heard a little dragging. So I'm going to get 1/4" spacers and see how that goes. Rode it around for a little bit last night with the new tire. New D404 felt great. Did some hard braking and turns to knock the whiskers off. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 05/01/08 at 09:28:10 I put in the 1/4" spacers and the dragging went away. It was dry today so I rode in to work, nice to ride a brand new well balanced tire. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by sluggo on 09/12/08 at 17:07:55 2E0F040504130413610 wrote:
Wish there were "mags", then they would be even lighter, but they're just cast aluminum. I like the nice color flames mags make when they're on fire, and how there is nothing anyone can do to put them out, just watch. I wonder how many VW Beetle's have actually had a leaking carb that caused those lovely mag cases to show their tru colors?[/quote] i always got the fire put out on my 68 before it got that far. i did light up the heater system one night. smelled the fuel caught a spark a whoppp... i put it out fast. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by BurnPgh on 10/31/08 at 19:51:03 okay. since onederer isnt around anymore to answer I was hoping some of the long timers here might have some more solid details. The wheels used were from a gs450, correct? Or was it just the brake rotor that came off the 450 and was put onto said wheel. Which brake hub is used in the rear setup. Teh one from the savage or the other wheels? |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 10/31/08 at 20:25:10 The front wheel is off of a gs450 to 650, all the same wheel. The disk needs to be off of a gs450 and you'll need to cut down the OD to match the savage. You'll also need 1/4" spacers to align the disk with the caliper. The stock axle spacers will work, but you'll be a little short on thread engagement. Get an extra spacer and cut it down to 1.250" if I remember correctly. The wheels I got were off of a gs650GL. which means the rear is shaft drive and disk brake. If you get gs450 wheels, I think the rear is a drop in replacement. Both are 16" rims BTW. I'm either going to make an adapter plate or have tabs welded in. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by BurnPgh on 10/31/08 at 21:29:53 I was looking on ebay and saw mostly 18"(apparently) rear wheels for several years of gs450. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 10/31/08 at 23:07:29 80 - 83 gs450L 81 - 86 gs550L 83 gr650 tempter all these use some combination of 100/90-19 or 90/90-16 and 120 or 130/90-16 can't tell if they are all mag's or not or which one's have disk drum combinations. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by BurnPgh on 12/26/08 at 20:59:24 did onederer end up switching to chain drive? If so do you know what if anything was done with the rear sproket to make it work? any spacing needed? |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by BurnPgh on 02/04/09 at 00:25:16 Rear wheel is not a drop in replacement. Im going to have to space the sprocket considerably. Im not sure how far im comfortable with spacing it out but it'd have to be 1/2in at least. In addition to that even with the sprocket spaced there would still need to be 1.25 =/- spacer made for the right side and the tab that holds brake hub doesn't even come close to touching. Super beat. Thats all offhanded geussing without even worrying about any sort of alignment. The gs450 wheel assembly as a whole is just way too narrow to make this a drop in replacement. Im very frustrated. The front worked out just dandy. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by BurnPgh on 02/04/09 at 02:33:57 I'll add to this as I take measurements and such but for now...The ls650 stock left rear axle spacer is 1 3/8in from end to end which is what you'll need to align front and rear sprockets BUT the OD is too large to work with the gs450 rear wheel so you'll have to have one made or scrounged. Didn't measure the needed OD yet. Now...I've noticed and heard in bits and peices how our bike is "lopsided" for lack of a better term. My stock wheel always seemed off center to the left but the gs450 is drastically off center to the left with the 1 3/8" spacer. Update - Left side rear axle spacer will need to be 1 3/8" long by 1 1/8" O.D. The same size will work for the right side spacer. Both the sprocket and teh brake hub arm will have to be spaced somehow or other. Both 3/4" spacing. I have no idea how I'm going to go about that but with those measurements my ChengShin 130/90 is centered at 1 1/4" fron the either side of the inside of teh rear fender. Any ideas for spacing the sprocket/brake hub arm? |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by BurnPgh on 02/04/09 at 04:24:07 Spacing the sprocket shouldn't be hard. Im gunna have a 3/4in spacer made to move the sprocket out. Will post measurements/drawing/picture of the sprocket spacer. Will have to get longer sprocket bolts. So If you go that route extend your left rear axle spacer by 3/4" to 2 1/8". |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 02/04/09 at 20:38:38 peechewers ppplease. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by BurnPgh on 02/11/09 at 02:02:00 right so...im extremely confused and don't know if I missed the point of this conversion or not...From multiple references on this thread I assumed the purpose of this mod was to lose the tubes. So I set out to do so using onederers example of gs450 wheels. Everything finally arranged and time to fill up the tires before putting the wheels back on the bike...they wont hold air. I just looked at the microfiche for gs450 wheels. They call for tubes. WTF!? Verslagen - ..."Cleaned up the rim, mounted a new D404 (he he tubeless) ..." - Granted he used different wheels BUT 65444F4E4F584F582A0 wrote:
Thanks. I'll post a whole side pic of the bike when I get the rear done.Kinda like a grand unveiling. I think the weight is close to same, but the mass is more centalized on the cast wheel. I only guessed weight difference on wheels by holding them without rotor, and tire on each, and both felt close. The difference is the tube and rotors. The GS rotor I used weighs more than the standard Savage, but the Savage rotor and tube combined more than make up for the difference. I used a bungie cord to hang these from, then measured the distance to the floor, crude, but it showed the Savage rotor and tube combined, weigh 4" more ::). Loosing the tube helps centralize the mass, and should allow for an acceleration increase. I did'nt have an accurate scale, so it would be interesting to really know the wieght difference. If the whole set up is lighter, then the whole suspension should also work better. [/quote] 140710110E0305070C53620 wrote:
Onederer also directly said in the thread cast/alloy wheels "yes, they're tubeless." I hope I'm missing something and didnt waste all this effort and money for some ugly wheels with no benefit but it's looking like he was full of crap and i got in over my head. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 02/11/09 at 09:07:27 The rims I got definitely say "tubeless" on a rib. check the bead for scratches, if they are deep, they may not seal. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by rigidchop on 02/11/09 at 17:50:13 every timie i buy tires online, i can never get them to seat. i think the companies that sell these tires stack them on top of each other, flattening them. i wish you the best of luck, and have been patiently waiting for some one to complete this mod. eventually i want to do the same to mine. i don't think the wheels are ugly at all. ;) |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by BurnPgh on 02/12/09 at 04:15:06 Well...the rims do not say tubeless and the gs microfiche calls for tubes so...i really don't know if this is going to work the way I had intended. Any tips on seating the bead? Any reason these wheels couldnt be used tubeless? I never even imagined anyone would make cast wheels that take tubes. Whats the point? |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by rigidchop on 02/12/09 at 04:50:51 i usually have to take mine to a tire place, but then again i've never tried to put tubeless tires on a rim thats supposed to use tubes. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by BurnPgh on 02/12/09 at 05:51:27 Well thats the weird part about all this. Apparently I'm SUPPOSED to use tubes but according to former forum member Onederer he was able to use these same wheels without tubes. I wish he were still around so he could share his secret or so i could call him out for being full of it. If this doesn't work Im going to have the spokes sealed. Who was it here that had their wheels sealed by wheel works? |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by rigidchop on 02/12/09 at 06:16:03 does anyone here have his email address? |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by BurnPgh on 02/12/09 at 07:21:24 no one seems to have any further contact info for him. Ideas as to how he might have done it? |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by BurnPgh on 03/04/09 at 12:52:55 Got the tires to mount with a 200 somthing PSI air compressor my friend has for sand blasting etc. Had to use a ratcheting tie down tightened around the tire though to get the bead to set. Now heres the really painful part. Because the gs450 wheel doesnt drop right in two new axle spacers and a sproket spacer need to be machined. I finally got to someone who has the time to do it...300 effin' dollars for three machined peices and to cut the brake rotor down. There aren't enough swear words to express my frustration but between the wheels themselves, new tires, chain, sprockets etc I've already spent that much. I can basically go double or nothing. Now the rear brake assembly is still going to be about 3/4in too far to the left to mate up on the notch on the swingarm so what I'm doing is using the GS brake assembly which uses a removable torque bar(?). Gunna get some short steel piping of the appropriate length crush the ends in a vice, drill the appropriate sized holes through each crushed end and use that as the torque bar attached at the right shock lower mount. Im hesitant with this torque bar idea but am not sure what else I coudl do. Suggestions? I'll get some pics on here once I get those machined peices. I'll post a pic of the diagram for the sprocket spacer too incase anyone else decides to do this. My suggestion to others? Screw it. Balance and true your wheel and seal the spokes with epoxy or fiberglass resin if you want tubeless wheels so bad. I've got a $600 99% sure thing. For all I know sealing the spokes could be just as effective at a fraction of the cost. I might even try it as I've got my spoke rear wheel still sitting in the garage. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by BurnPgh on 03/13/09 at 21:32:51 Me and onederer both must be idiots because we came to the same initial conclusion IE something must be done to space the sprocket outward. It turns out thats not the case. For the rear wheel you need axle spacers of 42mm long x 17mm ID x 38mm OD. This will put a gs450 wheel just about dead center AND align the front and rear sprockets. What needs to be done both front and back is some jerry rigging with the brakes. Rear brakes - I used the gs450 assembly which uses a torque bar to keep it from spinning with the wheel as you brake. I just fashioned my own bar from piping and mounted it using the lower rear shock bolt. You'll need 14mm and 10mm drill bits for this and the top of the copper torque bar has to be bent in something of a Z shape to clear the swingarm. You'll also need a longer shock bolt . 1/2" x 3" Grade 8 with suitable nut and washers. Couldnt find a 14mm anywhere. 9/16 is too big and 1/2 is too small. I was lucky enough to have a bunch of extra bushings from my set of progressives. One of them fit right over the 1/2 bolt and snuggly fit in place in the 14mm shock mount hole. If you arent already replacing your stock shocks with progressives you'll have to have some sort of bushing made/purchased to take up the extra space with the stock shock mount hole. Front wheel - My gs450 front wheel came with its own axle spacers and between mixing up the gs and savage spacers im not sure exactly what i ended up with. I chose to have from spacers made aswell but i thought the front axle was also 17mm OD. Its not. The correct dimsenions for front axle spacers is 33mm long x 15mm ID x 40 (roughly)mm OD. This will put your front wheel center. As stated previously you'll have to have the brake rotor machined down to a 10.25" OD and space the brake caliper inward 1/4". To space the caliper I just got some 10mm ID washers from home depot. 3 of them end up at exactly 1/4". You'll also need longer bolts for the caliper. 2 1/2" i believe. Measure the stock bolts and ad an extra 1/4". I will provide pictures of what I've done but Im not promising they'll be up soon. After all is said and done it's not as difficult as I made it seem...or as difficult as i made it even. For anyone else that decides to try this rest assured it does work. It works well. Just dont get frustrated. And be very patient getting the bead to seat on the wheels. Use LOTS of soapy water and a high pressure air pump and it shouldnt be too strenuous. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by BurnPgh on 06/01/09 at 00:00:23 disregard my previous post as regards the rear wheel. Doing it as i suggested above will work but you'll have a pull to the right as the wheel will be centered in the swingarm which is offset to make space for the pulley in stock configuration. It works okay as is but Im the kind of guy that wants to do a half ass job and get perfect results. No surprise then that I've got to retrace my steps. Still I put 2k+ miles on it with the offset and havent had trouble. The pull is just irritating. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by diamond jim on 06/01/09 at 04:52:19 Dang BP. You go all out when you mod! |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by Duane on 06/01/09 at 08:28:26 Too bad a Harly mag will not work. The sporster mags look the best. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by BurnPgh on 06/02/09 at 22:30:20 Harley mags do look good but...Ineclipse intends to swap out kawi 454 wheels. He'd be the first but I've seen the rear wheel and its about the same size as the savage. Pretty well offset pulley...like the savage. Im willing to bet his conversion is going to be no more difficult than mine and maybe significanty easier. Its already been determined that the belts will swap. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 11/08/09 at 22:42:28 I got a gs550l rear and it fit perfectly w/o any mods. The front is from a gs650, but the disk is from a gs450 and the diameter has to be cut down to match the savage. I used .25" spacers, but with new pads I needed to space the caliper in a little. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by uigiroux on 04/07/14 at 20:07:12 73607776696462606B34050 wrote:
What years were the front and rear wheels and disc? Aside from the spacers did you need anything else besides those 3 main things? Different hubs, etc....? |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 04/07/14 at 20:09:31 455641405F5254565D02330 wrote:
don't know the year of the front. and no other parts that I can recall. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by ToesNose on 04/08/14 at 04:50:35 Well I guess uigiroux has no issues with the searching the site like others ;D |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by strang on 04/12/14 at 10:51:55 Verslagen how's the mag rear wheel disk brake working out? I keep coming back to this thread most days hoping you've updated. Become like a facebook addiction. ;D |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 11/14/16 at 11:57:56 I was looking up some info on the GZ250 because the hub looked like it's drilled for the '80's GS style front disk. And that led me to the TU250 cause it shares the same hub. The TU250 has a 18" rim while the GZ250 has a 16" rim. The only disc catalog that I can find with dimensions is from Gold Fren but it doesn't list either. I think it was bike specs that listed the front disc as being 275mm vs ours witch is 260mm. I've taken the GS450 disc and cut it down to 260mm for the savage using GS wheels. If anybody has any dimension data on the disc's I'd appreciate it. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by batman on 11/14/16 at 13:10:24 I owned two gs550's 80and 82 and a friend owns a 78 gs750 these early bikes all came with mag wheels that were NOT tubeless !Versy said his rim was stamped with the words, for tubeless tires ,best to make sure any purchase you make is too. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 11/14/16 at 13:21:04 The one's I got were clearly marked tubeless. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by batman on 11/14/16 at 14:40:22 From what I see at Ron Ayers site it appears that the rims became tubeless in 82 for the GS650 and 83 for the GS550 ,the GS450 was always tubed. |
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Title: Re: Whale Post by verslagen1 on 11/14/16 at 15:08:40 As far as size goes, same front wheel from gs450 to gs1100 |
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