SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Cam Chain again
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1204525970

Message started by Max_Morley on 03/02/08 at 22:32:50

Title: Cam Chain again
Post by Max_Morley on 03/02/08 at 22:32:50

Well I opened mine up today as the tensioner is due in this week. Bike has 36,169 miles showing. 2nd tensioner was out 19.0 mm. but still straight. this was replaced at 26,660 miles. Measured the new special ordered and old chain both at 126.76 mm. There is 0.2 wear on the front guide compared to the new one. No visible wear on the rear one. When I put the old chain on the old cam gear and the new chain on the new cam gear I can visually tell a difference in the space between the root of the gear and the chain side plate. So far that is the only place I can tell the chain sits closer to the crank and would extend the tensioner. The old cam gear doesn't seem to have any wear, can not be felt with a dental probe over the discoloration to shiny part. but the chain does sit lower in that gear. Also measured the cam journals on both the old cam and new one, same size. Gear end journal is 0.002" undersize on both which would drop the cam ever so slightly toward the crank. If I can figure out how to do the pictures I've taken I'll add them later, if not, Greg can I e-mail them to you. Still leaves me puzzled as to where the wear/slack is to put the tensioner out so far. The crank gear was replaced last time as I broke it. Both gears, both guides, cam, chain and tensioner (with Verslagen2 mods ) will be replaced this time. I have another head/cover, cylinder, piston and new rings on hand, but the original honing hatch marks are visible in the cylinder so I'll save that for another time. I plan to re-inspect everything again tomorrow in case I missed something. I use a little oil and had thought maybe I had scratched a cylinder when I went to Wyoming over a 9000 ft pass in the snow/freezing weather. Suspected the cold air may have distorted the cylinder enough to cause some damage as that trip was the first time I used oil between changes, but so far no sign of that. For those that wonder, you can pull the head if you remove the front 2 and lower rear engine to frame bolts (those 12-14 inch ones that go all the way across the engine), at least on my 96. This tip was posted by Greg before I believe but I could not find it in the tech section today. For those who wonder about how much they could raise the compression ratio, don't see much room around the outer edge of the piston, there are no carbon deposits there, only clean aluminum, so it must be close enough and have enough turbolence to scour that part clean. I'll post again tomorrow. Max

Title: Re: Cam Chain again
Post by Oldfeller on 03/03/08 at 03:52:31

Max,

The wear on our chains is minimal when they go out to full extension. According to the Morse engineer who cut our chain open to examine it there is a thou and a half to two thousandths of wear on each staking pin which stacks up to our entire wear stretch that is seen. This is why he recommended the super hard surface nitride treatment on our pins as we only would only ever wear in the .005-.007" deep "surface treatment zone" on the nitrided pins.

This is also why we didn't spend any money on the deeper treatments, we would never wear the chains enough to see them. I doubt a dental pick would find a thou and a half of wear on a surface if the edge was blended -- nothing there to catch on.

Now that I have a lift and a spare bike to ride, I will likely be working on my first "chain system exam" sometimes this summer. I will be modding my cam chain system for extra life, exactly which way yet I cannot say as I have never seen/touched the internals yet.

Title: Re: Cam Chain again
Post by Max_Morley on 03/03/08 at 16:38:28

Update, when my B-i-L was over today and I was sharing with him what I had discovered, we compared the rear guide. The old guide is straighter and has some cracking in the outer guides. Distance is about 3/8 but the additional curve would sure tighten up the chain in operation. Got a Helicoil kit to fix the threads in the cylinder that the 2 long 6 mm bolts go into on the RH side. No torque wrench or tensioner yet so it is still a work in progress. Will try to get back to the tensioner part this evening after some serious cleaning and re-inspection. Max

Title: Re: Cam Chain again
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/05/08 at 09:30:23

Dont forget to get the chain in some oil early on in the project, to give it a good soaking before it gets pulled tight & put to work. I dont think it comes from the factory well oiled & it takes a while to get oil to it from a start. An empty oil filter to fill up & the low pressure system just takes a while to get that cam chain soaked , IMO.

Title: Re: Cam Chain again
Post by verslagen1 on 03/05/08 at 10:35:42

When I did mine (upgraded to Verslavy, re-used worn chain), I poured in the oil into the head through the valve inspection port untill the top was full of oil, then closed it up and poured the rest of the oil in the usual way.

Title: Re: Cam Chain again
Post by Max_Morley on 03/16/08 at 17:53:01

Well got off my duff and started cleaning and re-assembling today. With all new cam chain parts the tensioner is still over 1/2 way out. Not impressed, but I double ordered most parts so have enough on hand for the next time. Even found a new head gasket in the 2nd head, cylinder assembly I have on the shelf. Bought a 6.1 eli-coil kit as I thought I had a bad hole in the cylinder. That 165 mm bolt that goes through the head to the cylinder. After I cleaned the threads up I think I am going to be OK w/o it, I chased all the threads in the head and cylinder and will chase the threads on the bolts before i put the head cover on. have a new AGM battery and will put an extension lead on the + post and try to get an output number for the alternator before I put the tin back on. I can run it on my hoist and use a clamp on ammeter and load tester and hopefully have that answer finally. Time for chow so will sign off, Max

Title: Re: Cam Chain again
Post by Savage_Rob on 03/17/08 at 06:37:42

Pics would be great if you get a chance.

Title: Re: Cam Chain again
Post by youzguyz on 03/17/08 at 06:41:28

Just so Verslagen can add a data point:
Opened case at 14,500. Moved to 2nd hole in VerSlavy. Tensioner is one "click" from totally seated.
Next scheduled opening at 25,000 or so.. unless other things make me pop it open.

Title: Re: Cam Chain again
Post by Max_Morley on 03/17/08 at 19:19:00

Rob, she is already buttoned up and unless I did something wrong I won't open it again for 10K miles, but I scribed and magic markered the housing at the pin point so I have a reference for then. Wish I had heli-coiled the spots I originally planned on After I cleaned the threads the Right side 165 mm bolt seemed like it was going to hold. At 10 inch lbs. it gave way. I finessed it with a spare 170 mm bolt that I have that goes next to it and only torqued it 1/2 specs. So it may leak and if so I'll get to see if I can flat rate it back apart this time. Have all the gaskets, parts on hand but B-i-L has me following the rockpicking crew with a loader for the next few days. We are less than 1/2 way through theproject and only4 instead of 8 showed up on time today. Looked like it might be forever project, but just before the 10 AM/break the 2nd 4 showed up. We are still educating them as to the size of the rocks that needs picked up, they are overdoing the little ones and leaving the grapefruit size and larger that are the problem when the go through the equipment. 0.0- 0.8 MPH very boring and I have to watch and make sure they are clear of the bucket before I move forward. They have no fear and should have with me driving. Max

Title: Re: Cam Chain again
Post by Max_Morley on 03/17/08 at 20:55:24

Tried to do the alternator output bit, but didn't have the exhaust pipe/muffler on. Smelled hot plastic and looked over as I had been watching the meters and the reflector on the neck was slowly shrinking away. Shut 'er down and decided to try another time. Max

Title: Re: Cam Chain again
Post by sluggo on 03/17/08 at 21:17:50

5D71684F5D7F627C7569100 wrote:

. They have no fear and should have with me driving. Max

roflmao. good one max

ah just run over one of them. the rest will stay clear....

Title: Re: Cam Chain again
Post by LANCER on 03/18/08 at 09:37:11

Quote:

the reflector on the neck was slowly shrinking away

Whoa !

Title: Re: Cam Chain again
Post by Savage_Rob on 03/18/08 at 19:00:12

79554C6B795B4658514D340 wrote:

Certainly don't open her up again unless you need to. I'm just always curious to see how closely the picture I have in my mind match reality. Sometimes they do and other times they don't quite... Anyway, I'm not planning to open mine back up for about another 2500-3000 miles (unless she starts getting noisy) and then she might not need the chain done yet. I'll have the parts ready though.

Title: Re: Cam Chain again
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/19/08 at 15:31:33

Someone told me running an engine with no Zaust pipe could warp a valve, because when it shuts down cold air can wash over the valve. I have absolutely no idea if thats possible. Melted the reflector, huhh? Not surprising, surprised it didnt take the paint off the frame. Hows your hearing now?