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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1204469312 Message started by wayja on 03/02/08 at 06:48:31 |
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Title: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Post by wayja on 03/02/08 at 06:48:31 Hello Forum, I am a newbie here and a first time Savage owner. I picked up a high mileage Savage in great condition, but not running. I have not spent much time troubleshooting, but I tried to start it with starting fluid and it just backfires out the carb. Anyway, I was given a low mileage engine from a 1987. I know the 87 has a four speed box, but is there any problem with swapping the 97 engine for the 87? I do not have the 87 CDI box. I have read people trying to go the other way, and was wondering if I needed to change anything to make this work, ie; the CDI. I would appreciate anything anyone can share. Thank you, Wayja |
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Title: Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Post by verslagen1 on 03/02/08 at 08:20:26 Two things come to mind and bear further investigation, one is that CDI box and the other is the regulator. If I recall, the issue with the CDI box was timing, so you might have to get an 87 box to go with that engine. Second, make sure the wiring matches up on the regulator (color, number of wires) I think someone has said that it was different at one time or another. But If you got matching wires to hook up, you should be ok. BTW: this is all guess work and recolection as I don't have your problem. And where are you? "The world wonders". |
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Title: Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Post by wayja on 03/02/08 at 08:40:14 Thanks for the reply verslagen1. I was looking for the easy way out thinking that an engine swap would be simpler (and cheaper) than pulling the existing engine apart. With the weather in Chico, CA (like how I slipped that in answering your location question?) starting to improve, I was thinking more about riding than wrenching. The previous owner told me the engine was making alot of noise and he kept riding it not being mechanically inclined, until it wouldn't start anymore. It has roughly 14K on the clock, so I am thinking at minimum timing chain/adjuster. I guess my first step is going to be to drain the oil and see what comes out. It might be easier to fix the problem than to swap all the '97 parts to the '87 for CDI and regulator support? Thanks again for the help, Wayja |
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Title: Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Post by verslagen1 on 03/02/08 at 13:08:53 Great! Check the cam chain and the valves, same as the other thread here. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1204463053/5#5 |
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Title: Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Post by T Mack 1 on 03/02/08 at 14:40:14 Has anyone tried to swap the right side engine cover.??? In other words, take the 97 cover and put it on the 87...... |
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Title: Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Post by Rockin_John on 03/02/08 at 18:55:28 Immediately several reasons to discourage swapping in an old model engine into a late model bike come to mind: The early model had a known fatal failure mode in the starting system that has eaten many a crankcase and/or starting gear parts... IMO the 5-speed is much preferable. And as you already know the electrical systems aren't compatible. And last but not least: You will devalue the bike by having mis-matched parts. IMO, you'd be much better off in the long run to fix the bike's original engine (if possible) and maybe recoup some cost by selling the other engine to someone who needs it to fix up an older model. Probably not what you want to hear if you are looking for a short cut to a running bike; but the short way isn't always the best way, and in fact trying to take a short cut can often lead to a lot more work than just "biting the bullet" and doing what needs to be done. |
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Title: Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Post by Rockin_John on 03/02/08 at 20:07:28 641D7D51535B01300 wrote:
The right side crankcase/clutch cover? According to the fiche on Ron Ayer's they are the same part number for an 87 or a 97 or for that matter an 07, so... But your point eludes me??? |
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Title: Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Post by T Mack 1 on 03/03/08 at 05:54:04 1F222E26242312072225234D0 wrote:
The right side crankcase/clutch cover? According to the fiche on Ron Ayer's they are the same part number for an 87 or a 97 or for that matter an 07, so... But your point eludes me???[/quote] OOP's..... left side. .... That's the tatoo I'm getting, an L on left palm, and an R on the right..... ;) The idea is putting the '97 stator in the '87. Also, I'm about 75% sure the little starter gear (the one that has the slip plates for over torquer releif) in the 97 can be swapped into the 87. Not 100% sure but from the pictures I've seem and having had my '01 apart, I would think it would.... |
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Title: Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Post by wayja on 03/03/08 at 06:09:03 After looking at my options, and Rockin_John's spot on opinion, it makes more sense in the long run to fix the original engine. Thanks for helping a Savage newbie. Rock on, Wayja |
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Title: Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Post by vroom1776 on 03/03/08 at 06:27:14 uh, any regulator will work. The old ones had 6 wires, but on the new ones, one of the wires is shorted internally. You can just leave the spot in the wiring harness unfilled for that 6th wire. also, I think the |
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Title: Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Post by Kropatchek on 03/03/08 at 06:50:12 Your only worry is the CDI. I.a.w. the rotor should match the CDI. Replace the CDI or replace the rotor, that's all. |
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Title: Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Post by sunny on 03/03/08 at 07:10:10 i swapped out a 97 engine for an 87 engine i got off ebay. it ran. the reason i'm switching back after fixing the 97 engine is the 87 had unseen internal issues and ended up stuck in second gear. i hate ebay. but yeah, the 87 ran with all the 97 electrical parts attached. |
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Title: Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Post by wayja on 03/11/08 at 10:46:14 Well, my worst fear has been confirmed. The cam chain tensioner has come apart. Fortunately, the spring is still in tact and didn't fall in the crankcase. The other problem, I didn't expect, was there was very little oil in it, and it was thick and black! I am going to dissect the oil filter and see what is lurking. I won the bike for $25.00 on Ebay, so I shouldn't be too surprised. Now, did the valves hit the piston? The previous owner said he took it to a mechanic and he couldn't find the problem. He said it made a noise and then quite running. How much cranking was done with no oil? At least I have the '87 engine to draw parts from. The saga continues..... Wayja |
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Title: Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Post by T Mack 1 on 03/12/08 at 19:37:06 Black oil..... yuk ...... :P These bikes are a bit old school and don't take abusing oil to well. The piston can get too hot and grow which will cause it to starting catching on the cylinder wall and croak...... Since you sound like you will have the head off, do a very close inspection of the cylinder wall..... Sorry if the picture is a bit scary, but I want you to understand that it's better to inspect everything you can and not do a rush job to just get it running again. http://www.users.fast.net/~tommack/photos/100_1951.JPG |
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Title: Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Post by Reelthing on 03/12/08 at 20:03:15 oh a shinny new piston is a thing of beauty! |
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Title: Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Post by Rockin_John on 03/12/08 at 23:41:56 Having the homemade anti-kickback circuit installed in the decompression relay circuit would probably be a good idea too... (Who was it that said they'd build a batch of those?) Or perhaps using the decomp control circuit from the newer bike's wiring would eliminate the backlash - gear crushing problem the older bikes were known for? I'd sure investigate before investing $$$. |
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