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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> the great oil debate! /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1203981174 Message started by Soon on 02/25/08 at 15:12:54 |
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Title: the great oil debate! Post by Soon on 02/25/08 at 15:12:54 I am going to put in (Mobil 1, 15w-50) Cause I cant find 10w-40. The owner's manual says it's ok , accordding to the little chart on page 2-3. so the only thing I am to watch is cold starts. reffering to another post here. The owner's manual says suzuki recommends 10w-40 engine oil. Has any one heard of Amsoil 10w-40 for motorcycles? the guy at the store said it was better then Mobil 1. is he lieing to me? So who sells mobil 1 10w=40? I will be riding in hot weather. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by steely on 02/25/08 at 16:24:00 I use Castrol in all of my engines. You should be fine with most any oil of the correct viscosity, just be sure it doesn't have friction modifiers in it. Opinions on oil are like assholes.... |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Onederer on 02/25/08 at 16:35:48 Is'nt oil a friction modifier? If so I should'nt run it at all, that way my clutch wont slip. How much is chainsaw bar oil a gallon? |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by steely on 02/25/08 at 16:51:24 51707B7A7B6C7B6C1E0 wrote:
Well, technically yes, but... :P Quote:
You try it first and let me know how that works out for you! ;D Quote:
Waaaaaaaaaay too much a gallon. Actually, I think that bar oil would be entirely too viscous. I have noticed that it behaves suspiciously like stringy honey when it is chilly outside. (Since the big ice storm here in OK, I have been using the chainsaw a whole lot more than I have in years previous.) |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Soon on 02/25/08 at 16:56:05 the manual also says I can put in 10w-50 , in the manual it looks like it has the same temp rating as the 10w-40 range. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by steely on 02/25/08 at 17:00:32 615D5D5C320 wrote:
You should be fine then. Just be certain that it doesn't have the dreaded "Energy Conserving" moniker in the little circle. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Soon on 02/25/08 at 17:35:32 Quote:
what is it? O.. OK I see.. thanks In the manual it says suzuki does not recommend the use of"ENERGY CONSERVIG" oils. Some engine oils witch have an API (american petroleum institute)classification of SH or highter have an "ENERGY CONSERVIG " indication in the API classification doughunt mark. these oils can affect the engine life and clutch performance. pg 2-4 what does the SH stand for ? pardon my ignorance. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Soon on 02/25/08 at 17:36:24 I just want to put the best oil in my bike. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by steely on 02/25/08 at 17:51:19 65595958360 wrote:
I know that the "S" stands for passenger vehicles, a "C" rated oil is for commercial vehicles. I am not really certain what the "H" stands for. If you are really that concerned about using the "best" oil in your bike, go with the oils specifically formulated for motorcycles. From what I understand, you will pay a bit more per quart. I am not sure exactly what the premium per quart is, but I have heard that it is somewhere around $.50 per quart. Whether or not it is really necessary is up for debate (see previous oil threads). However, if it will ensure your peace of mind, do it. That being said, I don't use it. I merely use standard automotive oil that is not designated energy conserving. I have never had a problem, YMMV |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Onederer on 02/25/08 at 18:11:31 I think above all, if you read the manual, don't worry. Harley even used to recomend diesel oil in thier manuals. I had a KTM300exc that burned a lot of oil, like every tank of gas I had to add oil. I just bought the cheap stuff Every oil manufacturer will tell U theirs is the best, and I doubt you'd have any oil related failure with any brand you choose(not servicing does'nt count as oil related failure). |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Soon on 02/25/08 at 18:31:09 Has any one heard of Amsoil 10w-40 for motorcycles? |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by KenGLong on 02/25/08 at 18:53:20 Autozone has Mobile 1 Racing 4T (10w40) for motorcycles at about $9/qt. I've also heard good things about Amsoil but I've never tried myself. Bottom line, any synthetic that is motorcycle specific will be fine. Just choose the weight based on your particular conditions. For instance, 15w50 will be fine for hot weather riding while 10w40 will be better for mildly cold conditions and 5w30 for those parts of the country that get really cold! (But, I doubt riding would be a real choice in those conditions.) |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by verslagen1 on 02/25/08 at 21:42:13 Wallyworld has Rotella Tea, 15w40 for $9 a gal. I just change it every month in the summer, every 2 in the winter. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/25/08 at 23:37:12 I run Rotella T also, from wallyworld. Run the everlovin crap outta that bike, seems fine. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Savage_Rob on 02/26/08 at 05:36:39 http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/API.html http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/pubs/index.cfm http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/categories/upload/EngineOilGuide2006.pdf and one of my favorites for general oil info.... http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Capt._Ron on 02/26/08 at 07:31:19 Thanks Savage_Rob, I needed that. Even the auto parts store guys couldn't answer my questions. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by klx650sm2002 on 02/26/08 at 10:56:03 This oil and filter change I've gone for Motul's 100% synthese 300V Factory line 15W50. It says on the bottle "double ester", does anybody know what this means? (I think it means good). Clive W :) |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Savage_Rob on 02/26/08 at 12:18:54 656276383B3E7D633C3E3E3C0E0 wrote:
I've been considering trying Motorex Power SYNT 4T 10w60. It's a Swiss-made full synthetic that says it's suitable for wet-clutch applications. To my thinking, a full synthetic that flows like a 10w at startup and then retains greater viscosity at operating temps is better. I was thinking either of that or Redline's 20w60 full synthetic. Still, Mobil1 20w50 full synthetic is noticeably less costly than either of those. If I was relatively sure it gave me suitable protection in 100+ degree weather in the summer, I'd stick with it. Most of the ratings Mobil1 got in independent tests look like it's really good stuff. I'm doing more reading. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Dark Savage on 02/26/08 at 12:30:10 585F4B050603405E01030301330 wrote:
I'm not sure what "double ester" means but I know that ester refers to the type of base oil that is used. Not very many oils use it (only Motul and Elf as far as I know) but it supposedly has very good cleaning properties. Maybe "double ester" means it uses twice the amount of ester base oil as their synthetic blend. That's just a guess though. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Savage_Rob on 02/26/08 at 13:00:36 It might also mean they use multiple types of esters. Check this out. Pretty good reading - at least to me. http://www.scooterhelp.com/genmaintain/crankcase.oil.html |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Savage_Rob on 02/26/08 at 13:24:41 343327696A6F2C326D6F6F6D5F0 wrote:
This is one of the oils in the independent tests commissioned by AMSOIL (http://www.thebestoil.com/g2156.pdf). It had mixed results. Some great, some not so great. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by barry68v10 on 02/26/08 at 16:19:41 407C7C7D130 wrote:
Yes! That's all I run. In independent tests, Amsoil 10-40 m/c oil beat every other m/c oil overall. That and Amsoil 20-50 m/c oil are at the absolute top of the heap. Mobil 1 20-50 ran a close second, and Mobil 1 10-40 wasn't even close! If you want to see the actual test results, PM me, and I'll email... |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by barry68v10 on 02/26/08 at 16:24:13 Oh, I see Savage Rob already included the link. That's the same test I would email you. Look carefully thru that, then make your decision. If you've got questions about specific test parameters, I may be able to answer... |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Soon on 02/26/08 at 16:36:47 So with the amsoil can you go longer with it, like you can with mobil 1 10w-40? between oil changes, If I had no chance to change my oil? I the mean time I will go and read the report on Amsoil. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by YonuhAdisi on 02/26/08 at 16:58:21 I just use Quaker State 10W40 and have no problems what so ever. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Onederer on 02/26/08 at 17:05:39 I used some oil, and changed it, no problems. I used some other oil, changed it no problems. Then one time I use some.... oil, then changed it, no problems. I think I'm gona keep useing oil, although oil is better than oil, I'll stick with oil cause its worked so far. I heard of a brother of a cousins father who used oil for many years with no problems, and he would swear by that oil. I read of an independent test of oil against oil, and maybe some oil, of course the oil was better. I knew one fella who used oil instead of oil, and did'nt change it often enough, because he thought oil was better than oil, that thing sure used a lot of oil after a while. There is this reading material that comes with vehicles, that says oil is good, and no oil is bad, and they also have a service chart in most of them, which most ppl just disregard, because oil is so good. The British took over India for.........cotton. Cotton is good. Does anyone know if a manufacturer will void engine warranty if recomended oil change intervals were grossly exceeded? Will these oil manufacturers stand behind your engine operating outside of recomended service with thier product? Do syntheic oils claim longer change intervals to offset the cost? Jello is goooooood.(I think banana would work well) I probally should use 10-40 during the winter, the 20-50 i think is only remomended down to 30*, no, the manual says its ok down to 14*F. Whew, that was a close one, now I can sleep. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Soon on 02/26/08 at 17:19:28 66474C4D4C5B4C5B290 wrote:
;D sleep well |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by thumperclone on 02/26/08 at 17:28:23 running amsoil 10/40 in my 06 since 1st change over 8k now summer get some 100f days winter(this)couple of zeros...i only ride above 40f (black ice)but start er up every 14 days or so...change oil as prescribed in om..our local suzuki dealer started carring amsoil last year.. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Onederer on 02/26/08 at 17:41:12 I'm not being a help at all with the Amsoil thing at all. Bad bad member, third member, I should put myself in da closet with da rabid beaver. I think Mobil is setting themselves up for a law suit with the Rover comercials. I glad I use Mobil, I feel good knowing I'll be helping pay for that. Is there a very very quick and small disclaimer at the end of the Mobil comercial? I think I'll buy a new vehicle and change the oil every 25,000? miles with Mobil, and when the dealerships says the failure is my fault I'll say, NO, its Mobil's. A settlement will follow, and many happy(paid for) years of riding. I USE MOBIL, I also use several other brands of oil in various machines, and have had no oil related failures. That my independent test. How about a bottled water debate? If the water debate is'nt as strong as the oil debate, does that mean ppl care more about what they put in thier machines, than in themselves? I accidentaly tasted some penzoil 10-30 once, and wonder if 10-40 taste different. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Soon on 02/26/08 at 17:56:15 I'll tell you oil or oil taste the same, yucky! :o I tasted it by accdent, spashed up at me while depositing in in the oil bine at the recycle center. :P polen springs v's vitimen water? |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by geo on 02/26/08 at 20:40:10 Yes, I've used Amsoil 10w-40 in my machine after the engine was broken in. It is the best possible lubricant you can use. Go to their website and look at the numbers. Mobil 1 is your second choice. Do not use dinosaur sludge like Castrol, Pennzoil, Kendall, Quaker State, Valvolene, etc. These parafin based oils will sludge up. These dinosaur oils are not used in turbine aircraft engines because they will not stand up to the heat. Oils like Amsoil and Mobil 1 are used in aircraft engines today. Beware of the term "synthetic" in popular oils. These are not PAO based, and are really petrolium (dinosaur) oils. By the way, do not use Amsoil or Mobil 1 during engine break-in, or the rings won't seat properly. You want high wear during break-in. After break-in, you want to minimize wear, friction, and heat. The suggested breakin distance is 1500-2000 miles. Run the original oil 750 miles then run the second 750 miles on the Suzuki dinosaur oil. Change filter at every oil change. Then flip to a real synthetic. You can run the synthetic 1500 miles, change it, and keep the old oil and use it in your lawnmower. The Amsoil will protect the cam chain better too, so you can go a lot longer without worrying about that as well. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Max_Morley on 02/26/08 at 20:49:12 So if you cannot use it for break-in oil, why does Corvette,other US high performance, and most European high end performance car engines come with it as factory fill? Also be aware that according to the information I have. only a very few oils are true synthetics and they are category V. Amsoil, generally Mobil and most other claimed synthetics are CAT IV, still an improvement over straight dyno oil. see. http://www.motorwatch.com/images/oilclassifications.jpg AS you can tell some manufactures move from one category to the other and us as consumers cannot tell the difference. I believe Castrol was one who moved from V - IV at some point in time. Max |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Soon on 02/26/08 at 21:19:30 going to get the Amsoil 10w-40 they have that. I have to go two towns over to get the mobil 1. So Amsiol wins for my bike this time around! Plus it is close. that is what happens if you live in ME. you have to go to a few stores be for you find what you need, even for a dam jar of peanutbutter. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Soon on 02/27/08 at 12:16:49 Amsoil 9.10 per a bottle. Alot mor the the mobil 1 . at 6 to 7 dollers. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by Savage_Rob on 02/27/08 at 12:54:00 The motorcycle-specific Mobil-1 is >$8/quart at my local Wal-Mart. |
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Title: Re: the great oil debate! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/27/08 at 13:29:58 I saw a tired ol Savage at a Wal-Mart in Mineola Texas. It had a lot of miles on it, over 80,000 miles on it. I am willing to bet it never saw oil that cost over 30 bucks a gallon. How many miles can the bike go on an oilchange using the Mobil or Amsoil? Does the filter need replaced at 3,000 miles even IF the oil doesnt get changed? If the cam chain lasts longer & the oil is so good that there is less friction & it boosts MPG( I've heard Royal Purple IS that good, but I was only talking about the car at the time, so I dont know if that stuff can be used in the 650) , then if it will run for 6,000 miles on one oilchange, I might be swayed myself. Even if the MPG isnt impacted, going 6,ooo miles without draining it sounds good. Think of the hassle that would have saved Beat Duck out on the road. |
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