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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> catalytic converter /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1203238434 Message started by joebothehobo on 02/17/08 at 00:53:54 |
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Title: catalytic converter Post by joebothehobo on 02/17/08 at 00:53:54 Being the type of person who "believes" in global warming, but more importantly would rather avoid inhaling carbon monoxide, nitrous oxides, and unburnt hydrocarbons, im curious about catalytic converters for a savage. Apparently 20% of road bikes are supposed to have them, but i've never really heard of it before and cant find them on any of the online stores ive checked (so i think the EPA might be lying). Has anybody else ever tried to put a catalytic converter on a savage or any other bike for that matter (or even owned one that came with it)? Where could you mount it? Would it work ok without fuel injection? would you still need a muffler or would the converter itself muffle enough to straight-pipe it? How much would it cut horsepower? Are aftermarket converters available? could you "borrow" one from a car (some car ones are only like 60 bucks online)? any answers to any of these questions would be great. |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/17/08 at 02:34:53 You WANT a cataclysmic perverter? They dont make rose petals, ya know? They make anhydrous sulphuric acid & anhydrous amonia, which means, they arent an acid or ammonia until they get some water. Like, inside your lungs or on your eyeball. I used to ride a 10 speed, lots, in traffic, hard as I could go. I was off for a week at a time, so I could spend lots of time riding. Breathing the fumes from a car exhaust is one thing. Breathing what comes out of those things is deadly. Do they work to reduce smog? I guess they do, but I cnat stand the smell of them. I'll bet you can find one to stick on, good luck in doing so, dont uhhHold yer breath? waiting on me to join in,, ( I just HAD to say "Hold yer breath ;D" |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by demin on 02/17/08 at 02:55:33 My '82 Virago 750 had one,It was in the crossover in the exhaust,underneath by the center stand.Still had mufflers. |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by viper on 02/17/08 at 06:53:32 The 650 has enough breathing problems from the factory mostly restricted exhaust. adding a cat. without makeing other engine changes would most likely render the bike under powered. there are many changes that have to be made to make a cat. work one is temperture Not sure of correct numbers but for the sake of ex. the cat won't work or heat up till 1200 deg.F and will start to self destruck at 1600 deg.F so now you have to control this temp. So lets put an Air Injection Pump on along with EGR add some Ox. sensors a massive amount of Other sesors and don't forget some type of engine controler (ECU) Plus a feed back type carb. or fule injection( so we can control the amount of fule and decrease MPG. When al said and done we will increase the bike weight up about 100# most likely drop mpg to 22. I did picture this bike in my mind . NO not even a good idea. Rember this Most all bikes on the road with riders who enjoy rideing be it for work or just the sake of rideing take better care of there veh. than cage and truck owners. They are in better state of tune than 80% of the other veh. If you like Bikes follow one rule KISS Don't fix what aint broke Ride on Ride Safe This could turn into a political thing. Lets not go there. Viper |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by T Mack 1 on 02/17/08 at 08:16:22 Most 2006 & newer std stock Harley Dyna mufflers are Cat type..... :-X Could be why they you can get them cheap..... My Machinist friend (rides a '06 HD Dyna Wide Glide) said to stay away from them for my LS650. |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by Paladin. on 02/17/08 at 09:06:54 AAARGHH!!!! If Global Warming and polution controls were valid then the proponents would not have try to mislead people. For instance: When they talk of polution they have switch from "polutants" to "emissions." Every pound of gasoline mixes with roughly 15 pounds of air to produce 16 pounds of emissions. Mostly nitrogen gas, which is 78% of air, and which mostly goes thru untouched. The hydrogen and carbon burns with the oxygen of the air to produce water and carbon dioxide which is the vast majority of the rest of the emissions. Yep, water is one of the "deadly emissions". You produce carbon dioxide simply by living, in the range of 3 pounds for ever pound of food you eat. The bottom line is if you want to decrease emissions you have to increase fuel mileage. In 1971 my 1967 Spitfire got a measured 30+ mpg hard city driving -- when it dropped below 30 mpg I would get a tuneup. Find me an equivalent modern car that gets 30+ mpg city. You want to reduce emissions? Get rid of vehicles capable of 100+ mph. Due to the deceiptions and lack of any real effort to control emissions by reducing engine sizes I believe that the polution and global warming proponents have an ulterior hidden agenda. YMMV. |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by KenGLong on 02/17/08 at 11:15:06 I don't think it's wise to add a cat to a bike that wasn't designed to have one. It will either make the bike run like crap or destroy the cat relatively quickly. Ken |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by viper on 02/17/08 at 12:39:24 Ken is & his freind are right fule system is not correct for a cat on a 650 like we run. an most likely burn out from being too rich. Paladin brings ouy a very good point I had a 1969 sport fury sw. with 383 cuin. V/8 4bbl . Load it up with 2 kids wife dog and myself head for the moutains for a week of camping. It still got 27 mpg And we thought it was a pig. I have a 2004 Jeep 6cly that on its best day gets 19 Empty. I said before this could get political. Many on this site have already found that just by hitting the correct carb jetting and changing the muffler(and it don't have to be real noisy eather) not only did proformance increase so did fuel ec.. I must be getting old there is road in my state posted avove 65mph why do we need to build 150 mph vehs. It is funny when you think about it a poor tuned veh. with a cat.smells so bad you have to back off Much like your cats litter box when you don't change it . Ride on Ride safe Viper |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by viper on 02/17/08 at 12:44:11 Sorry Ken it was MackTs friend and he and you are both right. Viper |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by ohsixs40 on 02/17/08 at 12:45:39 I have to agree with Paladin on this one. There's "scientific" evidence on each side of the issue and the media just plays up what ever side they see fit. Besides, wasn't it like a decade ago that the environmentalists were claiming that global warming was being caused by ozone depleting CFC's? Now they say that it's caused by the green house gasses my 20 mpg Rover produces? When they finally make fossil fuel vehicles illegal, I'll step out of my solar powered house to find the headline "Ocean temps rise .001 degree. Human urine thought to be the main cause. EPA now searching for way to stop the human race from urinating." ;D |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by Paladin. on 02/17/08 at 12:46:43 http://www.hotaugustnights.net/photogallery/2007gallery/onthego/pages/002_gif.htm Reno, Hot August Nights. A week of thousands of non-smog equipped automobiles slowly cruising. Air pollution does not increase. |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by bsdnfraje on 02/17/08 at 14:47:58 In all fairness, Joebo did express his belief in global warming. That is, he trusts the testimony of a witness that this is all true. He didn't assert it as fact, as "fact" is understood by modernists, but rather that he has faith in a faction of scientists. The only real difference between his faith in global warming and my faith in the existence of Africa (based on the testimony of the Rand-McNally corporation) or my faith in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (based on the testimony of the Apostles and their successors) is the reasonableness of trusting the testimony, in the confidence he has in his witnesses. |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by feelinjunky on 02/17/08 at 17:00:52 You guys know that we're probably going into an ice age in 100-150 years and global warming is only stalling that process...In my opinion it's a good thing...most people don't know this, but that's the reason the government isn't doing much to stop pollution from vehicles. They don't know what is going to happen. Just like it's very hard to predict weather (weather channel is right 58% of the time) it is hard to predict climate...who knows what is going to happen, but reducing emissions can't hurt, right? |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/18/08 at 06:40:38 You folks know I have to toss my 2 cents in this one. I see others who are not convinced one way or the other, already. I cant help but believe we have had an impact on the climate, but are we causing it to warm or cool? Either way, Earth has been a relatively comfortable place for us lately. No ice age, like "They" were hollering about in the 70's? wasnt it? I think I remember a mini ice age threat being all the rage back then. & the Ozone being wrecked by CFC's, handy scare That was. DuPOnt's patent on R-12 was about to expire & since it was cheap & easy to make, they knoew they were about to lose a bundle, so R-12 was declared a hazard & a new, more costly , less efficient material was created. Skrude again. But, on to climate. It IS changing, but who can know what part we have played? Maybe, like one poster said, Our warming has kept the place from getting cold.. I think people with an agenda drag up ( & pay for) "scientific studies" that support their side, truth ( IF truth could be known) be danged. |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by bill67 on 02/18/08 at 07:44:38 The warmest decade in the last hundred years was in the 1930's. ;) |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by skrapiron on 02/18/08 at 08:37:52 Today, Global warming a religion for environmentalists. They defend it with the same zeal as a true believer in Christianity. And they have just as much 'proof' that they're right in their beliefs too. Most of the people who buy into the theory aren't bad people. They're just mis informed and take alot of things on faith. Again, just like Christians do with their preachers and preists. They 'know' that scientists wouldn't lie, so they have no reason to disbelieve anything. One thing I like to remind the environmetnalists is the FACT that Greenland was once inhabitable and supported agriculture. Those glaciers that everyone is so up in arms over are NOT permanent. They advance, they recede. They fluctuate, just like the rest of the planet and its climate. Is the Arctic ice sheet receding? Yes. Is it caused by man, not hardly. Because all the while that the northern hemisphere is showing signs of warming and melting glaciers, the antarctic ice sheet has nearly doubled since the 1990's. Another thing I like to point out is that nature is the biggest polluter of the planet. Not man. In a single volcanic eruption, more 'greenhouse gasses' are relased into the atmosphere than if every car on the planet were to sit at idle for 100 years! Yet I don't see environmentalists screaming for pollution controls on volcanoes. I'm all for keeping the planet clean. I choose to do it responsibly and without all the hype and zeal that others choose. Things are better when they're clean. But we don't need regulations to keep things that way.. |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by joebothehobo on 02/18/08 at 20:32:38 I would just like to mention that i posted this in the Rubber Side Down! forum not because i care about what anyone thinks about the state of pollution control and global warming, but because i wanted input on the TECHNICAL FEASIBILITY of adding a catalytic converter. If you wanna argue policy and philosophy, lets take it to the Cafe, or better yet, PM me, i'd love to chat. Thanks to those of you who did offer your technical expertise, it is duly noted. |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by feelinjunky on 02/18/08 at 21:19:01 6D756C7F6E776C71701E0 wrote:
Wow, that is a killer statistic :o Where did you hear that? (Its not that I don't believe you, it's just that hearing it from a book etc. is more convincing to others than from a forum). |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by joebothehobo on 02/18/08 at 22:11:42 Here is a summary of volcanic greenhouse gasses from the University of North Dakota. http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html PM me if you wish to further discuss their implications as well as the impact of aerosol emissions, which are not discussed in this summary (as they are not gasses). Otherwise, please keep it technical. |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by skrapiron on 02/19/08 at 05:30:47 Well, being one that professes to be concerned about global warming, I'm suprised that you would want to contribute more 'greenhouse gasses' by modifying your bike to use a catalytic converter. Check it out for yourself. Beginning in 1975, all US automobiles were required by law to have one. Since then, the atomspheric CO2 concentration has done nothing but go up? Why? It has everything to do with what a catalytic converter does. (A side note for clarity: Total atmospheric CO2 saturation has risen from 317ppm to 370ppm since 1975 (which represents the steepest increase in the history of the planet). However, CO2 is the SECOND largest contributor to the 'greenhouse effect'. When factored in with the other total gasses, CO2 contributes just 3.618% to the total 'greenhouse effect', of whuch human contribution makes up just 0.28% The largest cuprit in the phenomenon is in fact WATER VAPOR, which is repsonsible for 95% of the 'greenhouse effect'. This fact is conveniently omitted from the data used to support the theory of global warming, since it is nothing that man can control or regulate and its hard to make water into the bad guy since it comprises 90% of the planets make up. :-X ) The converters is intended to reduce the toxicity of emissions from the internal combustion engine. It does so first by converting Nitrogenoxide into O2 and N2. (which exist diatomically in nature). The free oxygen that is created is then used for the oxidation of other toxic gasses as well as unburned hydrocarbons. The N2 is released unbonded in a diatomic state where it will eventually be converted into breathable atmosphere (which is 70% nitrogen) The second reaction in the catalyzation process is the oxidation of Carbonmonoxide into Carbondioxide using a percentage of the seperated O2 created in the first catalyst reaction. That CO2 (which did not exist prior to the oxidation process) is then exhausted into the atmosphere. The third reaction is the oxidation of unburned hydrocarbons (HC) into water (H2O) and, yes, even more Carbondioxide. This conversion was intended to reduce ground level pollutants (commonly referred to as smog). Instead it created its own new set of problems. The unforseen drawbacks to the catalytic conversion process are, one the creation of tons of 'greenhouse gasses' through the catalyzation process, and two the contribution to ground level ozone pollution (which is created when the unused diatomically bonded O2 molecules are ionized by solar energy and create the compound O3.) Not to mention the sulfuric acid that is created when the sulfurdioxide in the exhaust gas is mixed with the water created in the hydrocarbon conversion. That sulfuric acid drips from every tail pipe on the road and finds its way into every aquifer. Its another case where man kinds best effort to clean up one problem, creates another, larger problem. And this does qualify as a technical discussion, since the original question is about the catalytic converter and it is important to understand what a catalytic converter is intended to do, before we can discuss the application of said converter. This has nothing to do with politics or beliefs. It is what it is... |
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Title: Re: catalytic converter Post by feelinjunky on 02/19/08 at 18:39:30 3921382B3A233825244A0 wrote:
Well said and supported. One question: 90% of the planet? |
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