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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate speeds? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1202855396 Message started by spotrot on 02/12/08 at 14:29:55 |
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Title: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate speeds? Post by spotrot on 02/12/08 at 14:29:55 Hi, new to this forum, it looks great. I figured this is the best place to ask for lessons from experience: Can the newer S40's cruise at interstate speeds with 2-up and a windscreen? 5 years ago I bought a Savage with 6k miles and it had a hard time holding 75 with 2-up. With a headwind or a hill, it couldn't keep up with traffic. I'm wondering whether the newer models have more hp (or maybe my old one was not up to par). A follow-up question is: Are there any inexpensive mods to help with top end? I don't care about acceleration (I have a Hayabusa for those thrills). The reason I ask is that I need a light-weight bike, one that won't torture a passenger, to carry on a rack on the back of a RV. I can't find anything like that under 400 lbs. GS500F and CBR600F4I were close. Any suggesestions are appreciated. Photo attached: the old Savage at Pikes Peak (sorry -site rejected the 75k jpg). |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by demin on 02/12/08 at 14:38:13 Both of mine are ok with two people,and I'm a BIG guy. They're an '86&'87.look in the tech section for upgrades.There are carb/exhaust upgrades,changing cams,chain conversions for different topend,If it can be done it's there. ;) |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/13/08 at 02:39:12 If you arent worried about acceleration, the chain mod sounds like your best deal. Of course, letting it breath & feeding it the right mixture will play a role, too. I hadnt noticed mine not hanging at 75, but I never haul a passenger. I am no mathmagician, but there is a way to figure the required horsepower to run a mass & given amount of drag down the road at speed. Rumor has it that the required power to maintain that speed increases if the road starts pointing up. Or if a headwind starts blowing. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by LANCER on 02/13/08 at 05:18:48 From your brief into it sounds like your first experience with the Savage was with a stock machine. By the way, there is no power difference between the Savage and S40 ... simply a name change. With a a decent muffler to allow more exhaust flow and a proper rejet/tune job the machine will run much better and do what you want it to do. This engine makes good low and midrange torque which is what you want for easy two up cruising. For max comfort for a passenger I would consider the gel pillow seat and changing the rear shocks to a set of Progressive 412's for much better control/comfort. The jetting, muffler, shocks and seat changes can be done for less than $400. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by keithert on 02/13/08 at 06:02:05 0C010E0305125257600 wrote:
What is the gel pillow seat? |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by Savage_Greg on 02/13/08 at 08:25:39 In all honestly, the Savage40 is capable of 2 up at interstate speeds, but you'll want to make that trip about 10 miles...especially for the passenger. That stock pillon is about like a brick for even short trips. The pillon is more cosmetic than comfort. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by mornhm on 02/13/08 at 08:34:29 It kind of depends on your definition of cruise at interstate speeds is. Yes if you aren't really putting a big sail up (polite way of saying you and your rider aren't larger people), are willing to do some modifications to the MC, are willing to live with short distances between stops, and willing to live without a lot of power in reserve, the Savage will cruise at interstate speeds. But that's not where it excels. It excels in short cruises at less than interstate speeds (where I ride the interstates, currently if you don't want to be constantly passed 75 mph and up is the norm on good weather days and the speed seems to keep going up). With that said, there aren't a whole lot of choices for interstate cruisers below 400 lbs. for riding two up. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by joebothehobo on 02/13/08 at 09:51:32 If your other savage just so happened to be older than a '96 model, they've added a 5th gear since then. Otherwise, chain conversion is probably your best bet. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by KenGLong on 02/13/08 at 10:46:56 4A49564D4B564D390 wrote:
Sounds exactly like my 2002. I'm in Albuquerque at 5000 ft elevation and my Savage labors to keep up on the freeway between Abq and Santa Fe. I get passed constantly because the bike can't keep up with traffic. I've modded the carb and put on a lower restriction muffler but top speed on a good day is still only about 80. I actually had to get off the freeway one day and take back roads because the headwind kept me below 60 and that was just too darn dangerous. Ken |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by skrapiron on 02/13/08 at 11:15:54 The Savage is a great bike for solo riders. It's just OK for 2 up riding. On the express way, at Interstate speeds? What interstate? 65mph through western Ohio (where it's realtively flat, yes) 70mph through West Virginia (where you get 8% grades for 6 or 10 miles) no way. My wife had ridden in pillion on the express way only once. After that, she insisted on her own bike... It wasn't awful with both of us on there. But it wasn't comfortable either. If you want to ride 2 up on the interstate, I'd suggest a much bigger bike.... |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by spotrot on 02/13/08 at 21:20:15 Thanks for the input. I didn't know if my previous bike was sub-par or the if the newer ones were a tad healthier. Seems like neither now. I liked the bike and was able to pull away from my buddies who were riding a new BMW and HD on the dragon, but highway driving 2-up was scary slow. I forgot that it had an aftermarket muffler too. The gel seat info sure fits my experience too. I had to get an airhawk for any ride over a few hours. It was good for 7 hours, plus worked on planes. 'Seems strange there's just no fairly light-weight bike, comfortable for 2-up that can manage 75 mph uphill when needed. Zuki sport bikes are light and blindingly fast but terrible for passengers over 30. And it seems all cruisers are fairly heavy sleds. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by keithert on 02/14/08 at 05:12:21 42415E45435E45310 wrote:
Some of the older designed cruisers that are still made are relatively light weight. The Intruder 1400 weighs 535 pounds. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by spotrot on 02/14/08 at 07:38:44 The Intruder is a good looking bike but with a Suzuki-speak dry weight of 535, it probably is closer to 600 lbs wet. I'd love to get a SV1000 or GSXR1000, both light-weight, (S says 370 dry) but there's little chance of making them comfortable for a passenger for touring. A Triumph 865cc Thruxton (494 wet) is getting closer but I've had British bikes before, and 500 lbs is too heavy to push. ;D |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by Jack_650 on 02/14/08 at 21:35:44 All I've done is take out the white spacer and put a Sportster muffler on. I've not re-jetted or changed the air filter, although I do use a car paper air filter that I make fit in the box instead of the original. The paper filter probably allows a little more air flow now that I think of it. I get no pipe discoloration to speak of. Oh yeah, I run synthetic oil too. I say all this to build up to the fact that, with my one size over Dunlop on the back, I can run interstate speeds all day with my 180 pounds and another 100+ pounds on the back in bags and strapped on all over the place. Add to that the weight of the different seat, the five gallon tank on the front and the four gallon one on the back and my bike is quite a bit heavier than stock. I've run at over a true 80-85 mph on the interstate in the hills of N. Carolina a time or two when it was needed although, I prefer a true 65 mph or so because of the vibration quotient, the VQ as it were. I've run with the big dogs in August (until I couldn't take the noise any more) on two different trips to Miami and one to NC from southern MN, mostly on interstate, and the bike just goes. That's with a full fairing type windshield too. If you want to run you can run. I hope to try the Rockies this next summer if I can get the new hardened cam chain installed. And get permission of course. Jack |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by spotrot on 02/15/08 at 05:29:00 Jack, Thanks for your input. I may get another S40 and just copy all your changes - I prefer not do cam, porting, piston etc. If I can keep up with traffic in the slow lane on interstates when needed against a headwind or hill, with two passengers, 165 and 125, plus windshield and bags, I'll be happy. John |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by feelinjunky on 02/15/08 at 22:10:54 76756A71776A71050 wrote:
Judging from my experience, you should be fine with a fairly new savage. I'm 6'6" and weigh 280, just 10 pounds short of your weights combined (go ahead, call me fat). I have NO PROBLEMS maintaining 70 going up a hill BY MYSELF. I also have saddle bags, windshield, and trunk. The bike has to struggle to maintain 60 mph uphill with my wife ( 6'1" 150 lbs.) Technically, when I ride with my wife it is over the GVWR of the bike (785 lbs - weight of bike(360 lbs. w/accessories) = 425 lbs. of passengers; 150 + 280 = 430 lbs :( You also have to take into account that the older the bike, the harder it will be to maintain high speeds with a load. You should be fine with a relatively new S40. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by spotrot on 02/16/08 at 07:09:59 Feelinjunky - that's for the reply. It was just the sort of real-world experience I was looking for. I went down to dealer to inspect a new one; just missed a low-mileage 04 with bags for $2k. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by stumusic on 03/09/08 at 21:26:46 Jack, I just purchased a 2007 S40 with 5,000 miles on it and I'm totally new to the sport. I love the bike, but notice you mention discoloration of the pipes. The first third of my pipes, and I believe the whole bike is stock, are very blue. (The bike is a deep blue, almost purple color and the pipes almost match) Is that a sign of abuse by its former owner or some other problem with the bike? Stuart- |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by T Mack 1 on 03/10/08 at 17:19:40 7D7A7B637B7D676D0E0 wrote:
It's an indication that the bike is still in stock configuration and the carb is set "lean" to meet EPA emission spec. Read the tech section (the index thread is handy ;) ) look for carb related subjects. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by vtail on 03/11/08 at 09:45:19 Yep go to tech section for how to. My pipe looks new (no discoloration), clean (light grey) with 5400 miles now and pulls like a freighttrain (Oke a little one) with the mods I did. No matter which pipe you want to run, it NEEDS to be enriched on jetting and the needle needs to be raised. This also keeps you exhaust valves cooler (read healthier):D See my mods below. Have fun ;D |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by Hutch on 03/11/08 at 11:24:33 I bought my S-40 new in 2006 and did the pipe/jet change,K&N filter and still could not get over 70mph out of mine I only weigh 150lbs. I put the chain conversion on it and now can run the interstate at 70mph with lower rpms and have a top speed of 80-90mph. I posted the how to convert to chain in the tech department. I still prefer to ride the Kawasaki W650 twin on the Interstate. It handle better, weighs only 420 pounds, will cruise at 70-75 all day with 65-70mpg, and dosen't get buffeted around by the wind. It still has plenty of snap at 75mph(3500rpm left) for passing and top end of 120mph. I paid $1000 less for the W650, with 5000 miles on it, than it cost for the new S-40 The Savage is a great bike, but not for 2 people on the interstate, at least not with my 5 speed S-40 and all the mods. I just don't feel safe on the interstate. I hate staying in the slow lane and holding up the people doing 80mph average in my state. The older Savage you owned, sounds just like my newer S-40 Hutch |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by spotrot on 03/11/08 at 12:15:32 Hutch, Thanks for your input, that's exactly what I needed. The W650 looks good but is a lot heavier at 473 wet. If I decide to go that heavy, the number of bikes to consider goes up considerably. I'm still on the line and looking for suggestions. John |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by firsts40 on 03/11/08 at 12:16:44 Hutch, I bought my 06 new, and I have kept it 100% stock, and I can cruise all day at 70 with no problems. Even at 70, if I roll the throttle she will get up to 80 with no problem. I perfer to cruise around 65, but she creeps up to 70 by herself some times, so I just let it run. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by Hutch on 03/11/08 at 12:54:46 Spotrot, the one thing that is nice about the w650 is that you would never know that it weighs that much. You can rock the bike back and forth between your knees, with no hands when it is setting, and it feels like a lot smaller bike. The balance is great and it never feels heavy at any speed. Nor does it lack for power. Mine is stock. It still has the covers over the carb screws and runs great. I just check the oil(hasn't used a drop in 2500 miles) fill with gas and go. I just put on a windscreen and hard bags, and I am ready for the interstate long hauls. Alone or with a passenger, no problem. First40, The S-40 I bought new in 2006 would accelerate like crazy but run out of steam at 70mph, after the mods. That is why I came up with the chain drive conversion. It still is a slouch in my mind, even with a 14% gear change. I love the bike, but hate it when others talk about how theirs pulls two people at interstate speed. I have been working on bikes for 40+ years of my life, and this thing just barely pulls my 150lbs around at 80mph. I have to lay on the tank to get 88mph out of it, and that takes a long 2 mile, no hill stretch. I've tried all the jets, and some old tricks that I used to do to other bikes, and it runs the best at 70mph. Anything over that and it takes for ever to gain 10 mph.It should be broke in with 3500 miles on it. I even checked to see if the brakes were dragging. I guess I just bought a dog. It is a pretty dog with all my mods, but mine is used for country roads, and that is it. I even have the speedo marked different for the chain drive. All speeds were checked by a freind of mine, who is a policeman, with the State Police radar in his cruiser. I don't feel completely alone with my bike. I have heard several others complain about their bikes not being able to do things like everyone else either. Some times you just get a dog. I think Justin-o-Guy2 said it best. "YOU PAY YOUR MONEY, AND YOU TAKE YOUR CHANCES." Hutch |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by spotrot on 03/11/08 at 13:13:49 How heavy the bike feels is not the issue. My Hayabusa weighs about 560 wet, and it feels fine. The problem is that this bike is to go on the back of my RV, and the weight limit is 500 lbs with the lift-rack. So I need a good 2-up bike that weighs under 425. We travel to the West, so the 2-up speed needs to consider altitude, head winds and inclines. I'd guess I can make the Savage go 75 2-up OK on a flat road at seal level, but I have my concerns what it would do on a highway in Colorado. I appreciated the input. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by vtail on 03/11/08 at 13:18:48 Hutch, Mine pulls strong sitting upright behind the little factory fairing till almost 90 indicated (86 on the GPS which matches the Sigma speedometer) . Tucked in it'll slowly gets to almost 100 mph. (92.99mph on the sigma). I still run stock beltdrive. I weight 185. Maybe your rings never seated properly or maybe you have a broken one. Run a compression check or better yet, a leak down test, like they do on Porsches and Airplanes which will show even a bad seating intake/exhaust valve or a burned exhaust valve or a leak between cylinder and head surface. Also check exhaust for internal resistance like broken baffles. :) |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by vtail on 03/11/08 at 13:27:42 Spotrot; Are you flat-towing a car too. If not you could always get a small trailer (under $200) and put any bike on it. If you'd normally pull in your camping spot and only use the bike for daytrips it should work fine (like running into town or cruising the backroads). Yes at higher altitudes we all (unless Supercharged or Turbo'd) loose about 4% performance per 1000 feet elevation. :) |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by Hutch on 03/11/08 at 13:46:49 Vtail, everything has been checked, before and after all the mods, several times. It has never burned oil, just leaks it out the bottom of the case, about 2 drips aday, even when setting. Valves checked, you name it, it is all AOK. I have tried all different jets and it runs the best with the 152.5 or the 155 main. Pilot jets changed. Jardine pipe. K&N filter. 14% gear change and it will hit 90 mph layin on the tank with a tail wind after about 2 or more miles. I'm quite sure that most of my post from a year ago are gone, but that was the reason that I wanted to change to chaindrive. I went through the whole, try this,check that thing back then. It was all checked before I gave up and went to coming up with the chaindrive conversion. I kept telling everyone my tranny was geared different, or it was just a dog. I am not saying this to be beligerant,just to let you know that I know my way around bikes, but as I said I have had over 30 bikes and have rebuilt bike motors my self for 40 years. I have been able to eek out every mph I could out of a bike, but not this one. I had the same problems with a couple of cars in the past. Identicle cars and motors. Identicle drive trains for gearing, one would run great, the other one wouldn't. I used to race cars at the drag strip for years and built my own motors from the bottom up. Every once in awhile you just can't get a car(or bike) to run like it should. They call them lemons. If the S-40 was my only bike, I would sell it. Fortunately I will sell all my other bikes, and STILL keep the S-40 for back roads, and the W650 for all other rides. I'm not saying the S-40 in general is a bad bike. Mine just isn't up to par with most other ones. It still accelerates like crazy(beating Harleys to 60mph) but still runs out of any good acceleration at about 75-80mph., and is done at 90mph laying on the tank. I just can't figure out why, so I live with it and ride it within it's limits. I still love the bike. Hutch |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by Hutch on 03/11/08 at 15:05:13 Spotrot, I looked at all the different sights about the W650 and seen how the dry weight varied. Before I put the hardbags on and windshield, I took it and weighed it at the local truck scales. Mine weighs 451lbs soaking wet. Mine doesn't have all the drip can California garbage on it, so maybe that is why. It is totaly stock though. I like to have a bike that acellerates to 90mph in 1/4 mile and the W650 will do the 1/4 at 95mph. Just what you need when passing a semi on the Interstate and still not get run over by the guy doing 85mph in the center lane with his cruise on. That is normal in Michigan. Sorry I forgot to mention that earlier. With a 500 lbs lift rack you should be good to go, unless you pack at lot of other stuff on the lift as well. Hutch |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by steely on 03/11/08 at 18:38:40 My bike got me from Tulsa to Dallas in just under 4 hours on the interstate. I averaged between 80-92 mph. The biggest problem I had was butt-hurt from the crappy stock seat. Mine is a '99 and has a mac pipe on it. As best I can figure, the carb is in stock, or nearly stock configuration (I haven't had the time to dig into it yet). I am 5'7" and weigh about 170. I haven't had any problem with my GF (similar height, about 20 #s lighter) on the back, but we never stay on the highway for more than a few minutes 2-up. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by firsts40 on 03/11/08 at 19:31:25 Hutch, just giving my personal observations of mine. Now I have never had my speedo calibrated by radar, so my readings may be off a little, although I think they are pretty close. :) |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by spotrot on 03/11/08 at 20:48:21 The feedback from experiences is appreciated and interesting. I guess I was not clear, the bike and lift must weigh 500 max. I enjoyed my Savage immensely; the only problem was that it seemed to run out of breath 2-up on highways, when at altitude or with headwinds or an incline. An SV1000 or GSXR 1000 would be great: both fairly light-weight, but I can't get my wife on one. Frankly it's fun looking at the options but it's also frustrating because it doesn't seem to be anything under 450 wet that's good for 2-up in those conidtions. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by skrapiron on 03/12/08 at 05:01:01 Have you considered a Maxi-Scooter? Such as the Yamaha Majesty or the Suzuki Burgman 400? Both scooters are fuel injected and can safely carry 2 adult passengers up to interstate speeds. Both scooters also weigh in at just over 400lbs. The Scooter seats are much wider and more comfortable than the pillion seats on most motorcycles. I can ride with my wife in pillion on my Vespa GTs 250. A 400cc scoot, like the Majesty or the Burgman would be that much better.... |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by Hutch on 03/12/08 at 06:53:45 39362D2C2B2C6B6F5F0 wrote:
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by firsts40 on 03/12/08 at 08:37:54 I have had other riders tell me my speedo is the same as their calibrated speedo, and I have had some tell me my speedo reads on the slow side. I ride most of the time within my comfort zone, and what sounds like the comfort zone of the bike. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by Gary On A Savage on 03/12/08 at 08:55:04 The PO of my bike (vince95) had put a digital speedo on. The tank speed and the digital were both the same with the belt drive. I confirm the speed a couple times since I bought the bike. When I went to the the 17/43 chain, the tank speedo is about 10 miles slow at 60 indicated, actually doing 70. The ratio obviously increases the faster you go. So 80 indicated would be closer to 95 actual. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by Hutch on 03/12/08 at 12:20:48 Spotrot, I will probably get crucified for saying this, but here I go. The Savage is a great bike from 0-60mph with one rider. Some people ride the interstate and some don't. The Savage reminds me of a 60's Triumph 500 without the top end accelleration the Triumph had. The Triumph 650 single carb(TR6) had 13 more horse and only weighed 15 pounds more than the Savage. The twin carb Bonneville had 17 more horsepower at 365 pounds. The Savage doesn't leak oil(mine does at the case) and needs very little maintainace. The Savage is a niche bike. I love the look of the Savage. It reminds me of a mini Harley with a single cylinder motor in it. In your case, knowing that you ride a very fast crotch rocket, and have owned a Savage before, I do not think you will be satisfied with it's performance with 2 riders on the Interstate. I would buy a trailer, as suggested, and buy a bigger bike, with more power to fit your needs.I just hope I didn't tick anyone off with this summary. With all the bikes I have ridden and the 30+ bikes I have owned, in all sizes and power ranges, I was only trying to be truthful. Good luck in your search Spotrot. Hutch |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by spotrot on 03/12/08 at 12:49:08 Hutch, Thanks. I wished our Congressmen had as much guts and sense as you. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by steely on 03/12/08 at 19:17:39 263B3A2D264E0 wrote:
Anything past about 86 mph required my feet on the passenger pegs and my helmet between the handlebars (before I got the risers and drag bars). The main reason I started to ride that way was to shift the weight off of the hurty parts. Once I realized that I was moving faster, it became my preferred way of riding. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by Hutch on 03/13/08 at 10:28:43 27243B20263B20540 wrote:
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by furious70 on 03/13/08 at 12:45:54 FWIW, I agree with Hutch 100% My wife's bike is stock, and I'm 6' 200, and I find it miserable to ride for more than 15min around town by myself, let alone with her on the back. I usually ride on the pass seat to stretch out. I don't know how anyone that is really tall or big framed can ride these bikes. My wife is 5' 3", slim, and mostly enjoys tooling around at 35-55mph. It's a perfect bike for that. For a 200lbs person (or for 2up), IMO it would be a dangerous bike to do interstate travel in stockish form, with very little power in reserve. I rode my wife's to work once, that was enough for me. A host of mods may help the power situation, but won't help the cramped quarters. This is essentially a 250cc framed bike with a big ol 650cc shoehorned in. How many people are comfortable with the space going 2up on the Zuk 250 or Honda Rebel? I would personally look at a trailer to tow a bike that has the performance and comfort you really want for that kind of usage. A side note, her speedo reads ~10% higher than actual speed, so does the one on my Mean Streak. AFAIK metric bikes tend to read high rather than correct or low. |
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Title: Re: Can newer S40's cruise 2-up at interstate spee Post by verslagen1 on 03/13/08 at 12:53:41 with D404's 140/90-15, the speedo is dead on, confirmed with veypor VR1 and any readable speedo next to me. |
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