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Message started by Black Betty on 02/05/08 at 11:08:41

Title: CAN'T START
Post by Black Betty on 02/05/08 at 11:08:41

2nd attempt to post!
My Savage is a really bad starter....will crank over endlessly without firing up. Starts with "easy start" blasted into carb. Carb has been cleaned and started first time after that but 3 days later...nothing! Has a new battery (yet to change plug but do get a spark). Any ideas for me in the UK?
PLEASE HELP!!!!!

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by Savage_Greg on 02/05/08 at 11:13:16

Obviously, you need to see if you have gas in the carb.

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by Black Betty on 02/05/08 at 11:31:05

Yes it has gas in it! Electrics are fine too as lights etc come on.

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by YonuhAdisi on 02/05/08 at 11:41:11

765B50340 wrote:

Get that new plug, but first even though you get a spark, read the plug. You can still get a spark even if the plug is extremely fouled. And before anyone else mentions it, I think I will beat them to the punch. Got a manual? (sorry savage greg, just had to beat ya to it ;) )

To me, it definitely sounds like either bad plug, fuel delivery problem or a combination of both.

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by verslagen1 on 02/05/08 at 11:44:22

When you started it, how long did you run it?

All the hoses connected to the right places? 2 hoses pointed up are vents, hose on right goes to petcork, hose on left goes to tank (big hose on petcork)

also, if the battery is run down, it may turn the starter, but may not have enough to start.

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by Black Betty on 02/05/08 at 12:02:46

Yes have manual but not good at motorcycle maintenance as I have only had one previous bike and never had a problem! Also I'm a bird so don't even get the basics (ha ha!)

Sorry - when you say hose on right....on right of which bit (????) Keep sending me ideas so that when one of my male mates comes round they can take a look.

(I'm sure there are plenty of women out there who can do mechanics...I'm afraid I can't! Really don't want to cause offence!!! ;D)

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by YonuhAdisi on 02/05/08 at 12:13:33

Personally I believe being male or female has nothing to do with mechanical ability, I have known some guys who to look at them you would think, "Now this guy HAS to know about engines and stuff" but when it comes down to it they were as dumb as a box of rocks when it came to mechanics. And I have known some women who could tear down and reassemble an engine with there eyes closed and out perform anything I have seen on the street.

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by Black Betty on 02/05/08 at 12:44:13

Ha ha! I get you but I just don't want to upset anyone with any PC or non PC comments!!! I can do that later when my bike's fixed! ;D Tee hee!

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by sluggo on 02/05/08 at 12:50:00

6B464D290 wrote:

Ha ha! I get you but I just don't want to upset anyone with any PC or non PC comments!!! I can do that later when my bike's fixed! ;D Tee hee!

roflmfao

no were not very pc around here, so say whatever crosses your mind.l

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by buttgoat1 on 02/05/08 at 12:55:38

Sometimes I have a similar starting problem with my 40. I have gas, with an inline filter, and strong battery. It cranks well but just doesn't catch. What I have done in the past is to drop the carb bowl, blast out the carb with cleaner, re-assemble, and away she goes. I have drilled the mixture plug out and hope that the right jets will help in any fuel delivery problem. I have'nt pulled the sparkplug yet.

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by T Mack 1 on 02/05/08 at 13:49:05

A couple of standard things if it is stubborn after sitting.

1) set fuel petc0ck to PRI for a few seconds (maybe 10).
2) set choke, and DO NOT give it any throttle when pushing the starter button.

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by verslagen1 on 02/05/08 at 14:59:10

1C6505292B2379480 wrote:

2) set choke, and DO NOT give it any throttle when pushing the starter button.

I've seen this said many times, but I've always gave the throttle a little crack to start. And more if it doesn't start immediately (on rare occassions). When cold (like in the morning) my bike idles slow, so a little twist brings it up to high idle like it should be.

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by Savage_Greg on 02/05/08 at 15:41:05

416C67030 wrote:

Yes it has gas in it! Electrics are fine too as lights etc come on.

Did you check the level in the bowl? Did you drain the bowl?

If it has gas in it, then why isn't the gas getting into the engine? After all, you sprayed a starter in the carb and it started.

What changed? It started initially after you had the carb cleaned, but 3 days later it wouldn't, right?

There are 3 things you need to start it. Air, ignition, and fuel. Go back to the carb.

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by Lazy Old Rider on 02/05/08 at 15:55:58

Firstly i am not an Oily Mechanic, However I tend to agree withe SavG.

If it starts on a spray (High Octane) starter in the carb it is able to start.

Therefore you do have a spark, maybe not Hot enough for petrol (GAS).

or you are not getting the fuel to the carb, Start it on prime, this is gravity fed, if it starts like the spray then you are not getting Fuel, try the same on reserve, now if if it starts, the Petcock Widget which works under Engine pressure is working so I would expect some kind of blockage in the tank on the "Normal " setting.
If it dont its the Widget see the technical oily hand guys.

Now if it dont start on prime take the tank off and change the plug.

On chepo Chinese Bikes there has been problems with Carbs Iceing up and a fuel conditioner (Octane Booster, Silkolene is the trade name over here) has cured the problem.

However my savage starts and runs in cold (UK, not Alaska or Florida) conditions so easily, (compared to my 125 Yamaha) that I do not believe Octane boosting is your answer

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by steely on 02/05/08 at 16:11:49

I have not seen you mention having engaged the choke after it has been sitting for a few days. You are doing that, right?

Mine will sometimes take a few turns to start after sitting for a few days, but it never takes very long if I have it choked.

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by JakeB on 02/05/08 at 16:12:51

How old is the fuel? Is there any water in it? I would try draining that fuel and putting fresh fuel in and maybe even try a different gas station than before.

JakeB

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by Dynobob on 02/05/08 at 16:13:47

251007053D545752620 wrote:

Did you check the level in the bowl? Did you drain the bowl?

That's the first thing I would do. Drain the carb bowl repeatedly. The gas in the bowl will go stale far quicker than the gas in your tank. Ethanol laced gas is even worse from what I've seen. There's a convenient screw on the bottom of the bowl for draining. If you find no gas in the bowl, suspect your petc0ck. If you have gasoline in the vacuum line to the petc0ck, it's likely failing.

Put 2 or 3 ounces of SeaFoam carb cleaner in your gas tank - it will help.

Don't use much of that ether starting fluid. It is VERY HARD on your motor.

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/05/08 at 19:26:08

How does it start 1 hour after shutting off after a ride? How about 4 hours after a ride? I say a ride, not a start & idle, I mean, full operating temp, then shut off, allow to cool, restart. Start easy? Are you letting it sit for days between runs? If so, set the petcork on PRI, note the arrow on the lever.

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by Savage_Greg on 02/05/08 at 21:14:44

Remember KISS :)

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by Black Betty on 02/06/08 at 10:11:01

Thanks everybody - all very useful. I need to get someone round here (my bike lives in my front room - so being cold isn't really the problem). Yes I know not to use the easy start much as engines get addicted.

Cheers - keep your suggestions coming just in case all of the above fail! (hopefully not!) :)

Yes I remember Kiss. I'm an old lady ha ha!

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by Brewbrother on 02/06/08 at 17:23:41

I suspect the problem is between the seat and handlebars. When was the last time you bought an airfilter? I'm just sayin......

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by Savage_Greg on 02/07/08 at 05:05:53

That's simple enough ::)

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by Rockin_John on 02/07/08 at 09:48:08

Just a tag note about using "starter fluid" type spray in your carb. I highly recommend staying away from the ether based stuff that was originally meant for starting high compression diesel engines. It can be REALLY bad for a low compression engine like the Savage.

Instead, I recommend using WD-40 as a starter fluid. It burns good enough to make engines start easy, and lubes some too as it goes through. I've used the WD-40 on everything from lawnmower engines up to a Ford 460 V-8 with good results and no damage. Much less dangerous to use that low flash point ether too.

Edit: Now after having given this advice, I've though about it again. And question the use of WD-40 in a vacuum actuated slide carb; because of the potential for leaving undesirable contaminants on the slide; which should be kept perfectly clean! Discussion?? ? ? :-/

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by Savage_Greg on 02/07/08 at 15:53:36

615C50585A5D6C795C5B5D330 wrote:

Sure.

1 - I've never tried WD40 that way, and didn't really know it worked.

2 - I agree about the slide.

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by Lazy Old Rider on 02/08/08 at 10:16:46

I have onlu used the Starter spray on a car that was left standing, with a mechanical fuel pump.

The Problem was that the fuel had drained/evaporated and the engine would not turn over fast enough to pump up the petrol.

Solution either take out trhe plugs to lopse compression and wind it for 30 seconds or use the spray, the spray worked a treat, engine fired and turned over fast enough to pump up the petrol.

Now if you have to do something like this to start every time, something is wrong and needs to be sorted.

I have heard it described that the engine gets "used to it" if you use it too much, but I cant see how an engine can get "addicted", but I can see that you will possible dry the head out of oil etc, and do damage, also I am not sure what would happen to the piston rings with prolonged use.

As for the original problem, has it been tried yet in Prime?

Title: Re: CAN'T START
Post by Savage_Greg on 02/08/08 at 13:06:48

48657E7D4B6860566D606176040 wrote:

Sounds more like the owner gets addicted, to me. I don't think the carb spray is intended to cure what ails the car. It eventually needs to see a doctor.