SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> moving out to AZ hot weather riding /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1201659121 Message started by Soon on 01/29/08 at 18:12:01

Title: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Soon on 01/29/08 at 18:12:01 Hey all I tried a search on hot weather riding and I guess I didn't fine much. Here is the question I am moving out to AZ Pheniox for school and I was woundering if my motorcycle will have a problem with the summer heat?  I use sythetic oil.  Will my bike over heat and die? I will have to get to school for noon.  High heat of the day.

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Oldfeller on 01/29/08 at 18:42:49 Mobil 1, parent to all FULL synthetics, was developed by a Mobile chemical engineer for jet engines (which have bearings, by the way) which get warmer than hot in normal use.  The oils were very thin by car standards but the guy put it in his own car because he had tested the stuffing out of the new synthetic oil against all existing oils and he knew what Mobil 1 could do.   His car didn't blow up and lasted well over 100,000 miles and he took the cam in to work to measure the lobes when he had to take it down for a part cracking and breaking.  He blew his boss and his buddies minds, the cam was barely starting to wear on the lobes at all. He further blew their minds when he told him he had just changed the oil filter every year and kept the oil topped up -- he had never changed the oil, ever. Mobil 1 oil was born as a commercial product the next year.  It is the only oil any of the big three will put in a turbo charged engine because the turbos don't cook it and plug up their little oil bearing passages (a perennial very expensive warranty problem with turbo equipped sports cars).   All Corvettes get Mobil 1, only oil that is recommended period for those highly stressed engines. Lots of water over the dam since then.  Synthetics have become better and more diverse.  The rule of thumb remains the same -- if it runs hot, put a full synthetic in it to have trouble free performance.  I run 15w50 in my Savage -- for peace of mind in any forseeable thermal conditions.   I do change my oil, BTW, because our clutches put out bits of cork, our trannys and cam chains lay down tiny bits of metal and our big pistons do blow some by when the engine is cold.  I ain't foolish cheap.   I follow BMW oil change practices now (another company that has gone over to 100% synthetic oil as they pride their vehicles on lasting a long long long time). Oldfeller

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Soon on 01/29/08 at 19:33:03 Thanks for the info Oldfeller. :)

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Onederer on 01/29/08 at 19:53:48 Your bike will be fine. Just remember it is'nt fan cooled, so if you idle a lot in traffic, shorten you oil change intervals, regardles of what kinda oil you use. If you can manage, and oil cooler will help. I use that Mobil 1 stuff, and have since break in, but not because I like, but because I'm doing a long term comparison. I have another 650,air cooled,4 valve, single that has only gotten Castrol 20/50 car oil, and has been riden hard with over 26,000 miles to date. No signs of stoping yet. No matter what oil you run NEVER extend you change intervals, oil gets contaminated. Aditives loose effectiveness, but the oil never wears out(conventional). Look at an engine that has only run on propane, and compare that to a gasoline burner, its plane to see why oil  contamination, is the main factor for oil change. There is a large dam outside of Pheniox, that has absoluty no water around it anywhere, kinda apocoliptic looking. Is "school" MMI?

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Soon on 01/29/08 at 20:12:50 Yup MMI you know any thing about it? Any good thought on studying?

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Onederer on 01/29/08 at 20:31:41 I thought it was nice school. I stayed a week in Pheniox with a friend, who graduated from the Harley course there. They have everything except the desire to learn, thats up to you. If you want to party, there is plenty of that to do there, but if you want to succede at learning, it'll take a lot of grit. If you start feeling burnt out, just hop up to the Grand Canyon for the weekend, its cheaper thru the gate on a bike anyway. Enjoy.

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Soon on 01/29/08 at 20:40:27 I have the desire to learn big time. I cant wait. I hope I can get full Fedr finan Aid and Pell Grant. Just did the phone interview Monday.

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Gort on 01/29/08 at 21:28:01 0C2D262726312631430 wrote: Your bike will be fine. Just remember it is'nt fan cooled, so if you idle a lot in traffic, shorten you oil change intervals, regardless of what kinda oil you use. If you can manage, and oil cooler will help. I use that Mobil 1 stuff, and have since break in, but not because I like, but because I'm doing a long term comparison. I have another 650,air cooled,4 valve, single that has only gotten Castrol 20/50 car oil, and has been riden hard with over 26,000 miles to date. No signs of stoping yet. No matter what oil you run NEVER extend you change intervals, oil gets contaminated. Aditives loose effectiveness, but the oil never wears out(conventional). Look at an engine that has only run on propane, and compare that to a gasoline burner, its plane to see why oil  contamination, is the main factor for oil change. There is a large dam outside of Pheniox, that has absoluty no water around it anywhere, kinda apocoliptic looking. Is "school" MMI? Shortly after Mobil 1 was introduced to the public,  a monthly magazine called "Road Test" did a photo article concerning it.  They took 2 new identical V8 engines into a lab and dismantled them, micrometer measuring and recording all the tolerances.  The engines were re-assembled and both run non stop for the equivalent of 100,000 miles.  One engine used a top grade of conventional oil and filters, all changed according to the engine manufacturer's suggested service interval.  The other engine used Mobil 1 and the oil and filter were never changed.  Upon disassembly and inspection of the parts, the conventional oil engine tolerances were what would be expected of a 100,00 mile engine.  The Mobil 1 engine's tolerances were within factory specs for a new engine.  All of this was shown in photographs.  I've tried to buy the back issue of road test that had this article, but could never find it.  They also did a surprising test of Chevron gasoline.

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by KwakNut on 01/30/08 at 02:59:56 Oldfeller/Onederer/Gort Some interesting conversation on oils here! Oldfeller and Gort’s tales are true – I used to work for Mobil as a technical sales engineer in the UK, working with industrial and automotive end-applications.  The Mobil 1 series is simply the best – by far. Mobil 1 History.  Since a fellow called JR Ewing pioneered vacuum distillation of lube oils and set up Vaccuum Oil a long time ago, which became SOCONY Vacuum, then Mobile, then Mobil, Mobil Oil has been the market leader in lube technology.  Exxon, Texaco, Amoco, Shell, BP – all the other big players have accepted that, and focussed elsewhere.   Synthetics.  Mobil took it further and led the synthetics market.  Most lube oils are distilled from crude to separate out molecules with about a 30-carbon structure.  They’re all sorts of shapes, being isomers, but with about the same chemical structure.  Because they are all uneven shapes, with some like crosses, some like Christmas trees or whatever and the odd one a straight line, they have varying levels of resistance to thermal or physical breakdown.  The Mobil 1 range is made from gas!  They’re polyalphaolefins, which means the approx 30-weight carbon molecules are polymerised from C2 gas to make lovely perfect straight carbon chains, every time.  And guess what – Mobil patented the manufacturing process.  All the others have to make do with purification processes to try to emulate what Mobil does.  Lots of smaller companies make very expensive specialty synthetic high performance and racing oils.  Ask yourself whether they have the billion-dollar backing to conduct the research that Mobil does, or whether they have a few hundred million in a bottom drawer to make a synthetic polymerisation plant at one of their refineries.  It’s a bit like wondering whether a BMW M5 is better engineered than a home-built hotrod.  The very same, exact same, Mobil 1 oil you can buy at a gas station is what’s put in fomula one engines – think on that. Why synthetics are better.  The straight carbon chains of the synthetic are just incredible – they are highly resistant to thermal breakdown, which is why they’re often the only lubes to deal with very hot high performance engines.  They also break down less under physical stress- like between gear teeth, and they rub less against each other microscopically, so you actually get less friction – and therefore less heat/more power/less fuel!!  (change engine oil, gear oil, diff oil and hub grease for synthetics and you gain 2.5-4%). Test results.  I’ve seen European engines come off test beds after programmes like the one described by Gort and with exactly the same results.  You can easily double the life of an engine by using Mobil 1.  With gearboxes, where contamination is less of a deal, we saw 500% increases in industrial trials.  Yes – 5x life extension. Oil never wears out? Onederer, your statement that conventional oil never wears out isn’t entirely true.  You’re quite right that the main problem is additives losing their effectiveness – especially the detergent/dispersant package being used up.  Oil will thicken with accumulation of suspended carbon, and thin with accumulation of fuel contamination – maybe a combination of both.  It also may suffer from suspended water (it’s designed to safely hold a few percent water) and metal contaminants, though most debris and bits should be pulled out by the filter.  Viscosity improvers will break down over time, but that just narrows the oil’s viscosity range. However, there’s another factor, which is break down of the base oil itself.  The actual base stock will eventually oxidise, and that happens a lot quicker with normal oils than with synthetics, especially Mobil 1.  Eventually it gets tired, though it can be recycled by filtering through clay beds to get rid of the crap. Change intervals.  Also, you can extend change intervals with synthetics.  Some haulage companies are now running 100,000 mile oil change cycles with synthetics with regular filter changes, and they’re still getting extended life over mineral oils.  We used to run our company cars on it and usually double the recommended change periods.  We also had the facility to take out some of the old oil and get full lab sample tests done.  The results always showed that the Mobil 1 was performing better and protecting better at 20000 miles than a mineral oil could brand new.  No bull, just tested proof.  I run double change intervals with normal filter changes.  My turbodiesel car has 180000 miles on the clock from doing this, runs sweet, burns no oil and still returns 50 miles to the gallon. Bike vs car oil.  Some people are concerned that car oils have different addictives which are not suitable for bikes.  Two suggestions I’ve heard are that there are too many friction improvers in car oils for bike clutches, and that the car oil doesn’t have enough detergent dispersant pack for a bike, especially a twin, and you’re better with a diesel car oil.  I’ve run a LOT of bikes on Mobil 1, including several tuned bikes that have really pushed the clutch to its limits, but I’ve never had a slippage problem.  As for detergent levels, you can run a diesel on Mobil 1 – so it’s not exactly short of detergents!.  If a bike has clutch problems, that’s because it has clutch problems.  Maybe there are a few models out there that have too little reserve strength built into the clutch and they can be a problem with a better oil, but that’s going to be a very rare problem. Also, just for the record, in many cases the difference between the bike oil and the car oil is the label. Synthetic myths.  The early synthetic oils were based on other chemistry – like glycols for instance – and were incompatible with conventional mineral oils.  That is not the case with Mobil 1.  It’s chemically the same as your mineral oil base stock, just a purer version of it.  So, if anybody tells you you have to be careful where you use Mobil 1 or that you have to flush the old oil out first, just nod your head and ignore them.  Think of it as the Mobil 1 being a blueprinted machine assembly, while the others are Friday afternoon rush jobs.  It will mix happily with other oils and it is exactly the same in terms of compatibility with seals and other laterials.  I would advise using a simple mineral oil for bedding in, say 500  miles, but that's all. Manual transmissions.  Put Mobilube SHC in your axle (differentials need EP additives), but Mobil 1 is great for gearboxes.  Most manual transmissions just don’t need special lubes, and the oil industry has been laughing for decades while charging for them, because all you really need in a gearbox is a straight oil, with virtually no additives.  Expensive gear oils are just overkill when your engine oil, bought cheaper by the gallon, will do just as well, if not better. Over in the UK we have a chain of motor accessory outlets which sell their own brand of synthetics – but I happen to know that it is Mobil 1, filled into rebranded containers by Mobil at their blending and packing plant.  So the choice is $80 for a gallon in a Mobil can, or $50 for a gallon in a re-branded can.  No-brainer!

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Soon on 01/30/08 at 05:29:52 0B37212B0E3534400 wrote: Oldfeller/Onederer/Gort Some interesting conversation on oils here! Oldfeller and Gort’s tales are true – I used to work for Mobil as a technical sales engineer in the UK, working with industrial and automotive end-applications.  The Mobil 1 series is simply the best – by far. Mobil 1 History.  Since a fellow called JR Ewing pioneered vacuum distillation of lube oils and set up Vaccuum Oil a long time ago, which became SOCONY Vacuum, then Mobile, then Mobil, Mobil Oil has been the market leader in lube technology.  Exxon, Texaco, Amoco, Shell, BP – all the other big players have accepted that, and focussed elsewhere.   Synthetics.  Mobil took it further and led the synthetics market.  Most lube oils are distilled from crude to separate out molecules with about a 30-carbon structure.  They’re all sorts of shapes, being isomers, but with about the same chemical structure.  Because they are all uneven shapes, with some like crosses, some like Christmas trees or whatever and the odd one a straight line, they have varying levels of resistance to thermal or physical breakdown.  The Mobil 1 range is made from gas!  They’re polyalphaolefins, which means the approx 30-weight carbon molecules are polymerised from C2 gas to make lovely perfect straight carbon chains, every time.  And guess what – Mobil patented the manufacturing process.  All the others have to make do with purification processes to try to emulate what Mobil does.  Lots of smaller companies make very expensive specialty synthetic high performance and racing oils.  Ask yourself whether they have the billion-dollar backing to conduct the research that Mobil does, or whether they have a few hundred million in a bottom drawer to make a synthetic polymerisation plant at one of their refineries.  It’s a bit like wondering whether a BMW M5 is better engineered than a home-built hotrod.  The very same, exact same, Mobil 1 oil you can buy at a gas station is what’s put in fomula one engines – think on that. Why synthetics are better.  The straight carbon chains of the synthetic are just incredible – they are highly resistant to thermal breakdown, which is why they’re often the only lubes to deal with very hot high performance engines.  They also break down less under physical stress- like between gear teeth, and they rub less against each other microscopically, so you actually get less friction – and therefore less heat/more power/less fuel!!  (change engine oil, gear oil, diff oil and hub grease for synthetics and you gain 2.5-4%). Test results.  I’ve seen European engines come off test beds after programmes like the one described by Gort and with exactly the same results.  You can easily double the life of an engine by using Mobil 1.  With gearboxes, where contamination is less of a deal, we saw 500% increases in industrial trials.  Yes – 5x life extension. Oil never wears out? Onederer, your statement that conventional oil never wears out isn’t entirely true.  You’re quite right that the main problem is additives losing their effectiveness – especially the detergent/dispersant package being used up.  Oil will thicken with accumulation of suspended carbon, and thin with accumulation of fuel contamination – maybe a combination of both.  It also may suffer from suspended water (it’s designed to safely hold a few percent water) and metal contaminants, though most debris and bits should be pulled out by the filter.  Viscosity improvers will break down over time, but that just narrows the oil’s viscosity range. However, there’s another factor, which is break down of the base oil itself.  The actual base stock will eventually oxidise, and that happens a lot quicker with normal oils than with synthetics, especially Mobil 1.  Eventually it gets tired, though it can be recycled by filtering through clay beds to get rid of the crap. Change intervals.  Also, you can extend change intervals with synthetics.  Some haulage companies are now running 100,000 mile oil change cycles with synthetics with regular filter changes, and they’re still getting extended life over mineral oils.  We used to run our company cars on it and usually double the recommended change periods.  We also had the facility to take out some of the old oil and get full lab sample tests done.  The results always showed that the Mobil 1 was performing better and protecting better at 20000 miles than a mineral oil could brand new.  No bull, just tested proof.  I run double change intervals with normal filter changes.  My turbodiesel car has 180000 miles on the clock from doing this, runs sweet, burns no oil and still returns 50 miles to the gallon. Bike vs car oil.  Some people are concerned that car oils have different addictives which are not suitable for bikes.  Two suggestions I’ve heard are that there are too many friction improvers in car oils for bike clutches, and that the car oil doesn’t have enough detergent dispersant pack for a bike, especially a twin, and you’re better with a diesel car oil.  I’ve run a LOT of bikes on Mobil 1, including several tuned bikes that have really pushed the clutch to its limits, but I’ve never had a slippage problem.  As for detergent levels, you can run a diesel on Mobil 1 – so it’s not exactly short of detergents!.  If a bike has clutch problems, that’s because it has clutch problems.  Maybe there are a few models out there that have too little reserve strength built into the clutch and they can be a problem with a better oil, but that’s going to be a very rare problem. Also, just for the record, in many cases the difference between the bike oil and the car oil is the label. Synthetic myths.  The early synthetic oils were based on other chemistry – like glycols for instance – and were incompatible with conventional mineral oils.  That is not the case with Mobil 1.  It’s chemically the same as your mineral oil base stock, just a purer version of it.  So, if anybody tells you you have to be careful where you use Mobil 1 or that you have to flush the old oil out first, just nod your head and ignore them.  Think of it as the Mobil 1 being a blueprinted machine assembly, while the others are Friday afternoon rush jobs.  It will mix happily with other oils and it is exactly the same in terms of compatibility with seals and other laterials.  I would advise using a simple mineral oil for bedding in, say 500  miles, but that's all. Manual transmissions.  Put Mobilube SHC in your axle (differentials need EP additives), but Mobil 1 is great for gearboxes.  Most manual transmissions just don’t need special lubes, and the oil industry has been laughing for decades while charging for them, because all you really need in a gearbox is a straight oil, with virtually no additives.  Expensive gear oils are just overkill when your engine oil, bought cheaper by the gallon, will do just as well, if not better. Over in the UK we have a chain of motor accessory outlets which sell their own brand of synthetics – but I happen to know that it is Mobil 1, filled into rebranded containers by Mobil at their blending and packing plant.  So the choice is $80 for a gallon in a Mobil can, or $50 for a gallon in a re-branded can.  No-brainer! Hey thanks This was very interesting KwakNut! So I will use mobil 1 for oil right I can just walk in the store and buy Mobil 1 that is made for cars and put it into my Ls650 Cool! What are the names of the re-branded cans? Do thet sell them in the US

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Soon on 01/30/08 at 05:33:11 7A5B505150475047350 wrote: Your bike will be fine. Just remember it is'nt fan cooled, so if you idle a lot in traffic, shorten you oil change intervals, regardles of what kinda oil you use. If you can manage, and oil cooler will help. I use that Mobil 1 stuff, and have since break in, but not because I like, but because I'm doing a long term comparison. I have another 650,air cooled,4 valve, single that has only gotten Castrol 20/50 car oil, and has been riden hard with over 26,000 miles to date. No signs of stoping yet. No matter what oil you run NEVER extend you change intervals, oil gets contaminated. Aditives loose effectiveness, but the oil never wears out(conventional). Look at an engine that has only run on propane, and compare that to a gasoline burner, its plane to see why oil  contamination, is the main factor for oil change. There is a large dam outside of Pheniox, that has absoluty no water around it anywhere, kinda apocoliptic looking. Is "school" MMI? Onederer   Tell me more on what a oil cooler is

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by KwakNut on 01/30/08 at 06:08:30 784444452B0 wrote: Hey thanks This was very interesting KwakNut! So I will use mobil 1 for oil right I can just walk in the store and buy Mobil 1 that is made for cars and put it into my Ls650 Cool! What are the names of the re-branded cans? Do thet sell them in the US My pleasure. The company in the UK is called Halfords - they have a nation-wide chain of supermarket sized car accessory outlets.  I've never seen them in the States. In many, many cases, the local-branded lubes you buy are just re-branded Mobil/Exxon/Texaco/Shell or whatever.  The oil companies charge one price for their own brand-leading premium oils, and other prices for either their lower-grade bulk-buy industrial lubes or indeed the re-branded bulk buys. In many cases, the bulk buy oils that are sold by the barrel or in bulk at 50 cents a litre are exactly the same as the premium oil sold in a gallon can at $4 a litre, because it's cheaper to keep the stuff running through the plant than to stop production and adjust the process for a different run of product that will only be slightly different. Mobil are a little more cagey about synthetics – they understandably like to protect the ‘get what you pay for’ justification of synthetic prices, and synthetics do cost a whole lot more to produce than mineral lubes.  There isn't a budget version for industrial use, and relatively little discount on bulk purchase of synthetics is available even for big volume buyers.  I was surprised when I saw the Halfords cans being filled in Mobil’s UK blending plant a few years ago.   Whether Mobil will do the same on US home soil, and risk the main home market discovering that they can buy the same stuff cheaper from another outlet under a re-brand label, I don't know.

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by azjay on 01/30/08 at 06:40:27 6E5252533D0 wrote: Hey all I tried a search on hot weather riding and I guess I didn't fine much. Here is the question I am moving out to AZ Pheniox for school and I was woundering if my motorcycle will have a problem with the summer heat?  I use sythetic oil.  Will my bike over heat and die? I will have to get to school for noon.  High heat of the day. dont sweat it  ;D  we run our bikes every day all year,  we run 20w50 dino and change it often. the local police bikes dont even run oil coolers  :-?  KEEP OIL IN IT  :-[  that is important  8-)

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by nervekiler on 01/30/08 at 09:14:42 i had a girlfriend once that left me and then went to school down there at MMI... darn i shoulda followed her she was smokin hot. last i heard she is still in school down there.. goin on third year

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Soon on 01/30/08 at 09:26:43 192533391C2726520 wrote: [quote author=784444452B0 link=1201659121/0#9 date=1201699792] Hey thanks This was very interesting KwakNut! So I will use mobil 1 for oil right I can just walk in the store and buy Mobil 1 that is made for cars and put it into my Ls650 Cool! What are the names of the re-branded cans? Do thet sell them in the US My pleasure. The company in the UK is called Halfords - they have a nation-wide chain of supermarket sized car accessory outlets.  I've never seen them in the States. In many, many cases, the local-branded lubes you buy are just re-branded Mobil/Exxon/Texaco/Shell or whatever.  The oil companies charge one price for their own brand-leading premium oils, and other prices for either their lower-grade bulk-buy industrial lubes or indeed the re-branded bulk buys. In many cases, the bulk buy oils that are sold by the barrel or in bulk at 50 cents a litre are exactly the same as the premium oil sold in a gallon can at $4 a litre, because it's cheaper to keep the stuff running through the plant than to stop production and adjust the process for a different run of product that will only be slightly different. Mobil are a little more cagey about synthetics – they understandably like to protect the ‘get what you pay for’ justification of synthetic prices, and synthetics do cost a whole lot more to produce than mineral lubes.  There isn't a budget version for industrial use, and relatively little discount on bulk purchase of synthetics is available even for big volume buyers.  I was surprised when I saw the Halfords cans being filled in Mobil’s UK blending plant a few years ago.   Whether Mobil will do the same on US home soil, and risk the main home market discovering that they can buy the same stuff cheaper from another outlet under a re-brand label, I don't know. [/quote] Thank you :)

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Soon on 01/30/08 at 09:31:25 4B405753404E4C494057250 wrote: i had a girlfriend once that left me and then went to school down there at MMI... darn i shoulda followed her she was smokin hot. last i heard she is still in school down there.. goin on third year Sorry to hear, Love for the bikes can be a hard one. She must be happy!

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Onederer on 01/30/08 at 16:17:08 Yes, I've heard, as most have about how much better synthetics are, but...... I'm glad a few here are useing it, including me. Whoever reaches over 100thousand on thier bike, without any failure, what so ever, should contact Mobil, they might at least get a case of oil, at no cost to them.*  A oil cooler has been discussed on here before, and there are ppl who are useing one on the Savage. It is basicaly a small radiator for oil. Definatly something to research, and do when yourcomfortable with doing it. A electric fan on the cooler would really be great. Since your at MMI, you might get to do that to your bike as a project. You'll tear so many bikes down, and put back together, that there will be nothing left holding you back from working on your own. The AutoZone stores here sell Mobil 1 bike oil, and its the same price as wally world, plus if you have the autozone card, basically after you spend 100$ with themin 6 months you get 20$ credit.                                     * S & H not included.

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Soon on 01/30/08 at 18:26:47 7A5B505150475047350 wrote: Yes, I've heard, as most have about how much better synthetics are, but...... I'm glad a few here are useing it, including me. Whoever reaches over 100thousand on thier bike, without any failure, what so ever, should contact Mobil, they might at least get a case of oil, at no cost to them.*  A oil cooler has been discussed on here before, and there are ppl who are useing one on the Savage. It is basicaly a small radiator for oil. Definatly something to research, and do when yourcomfortable with doing it. A electric fan on the cooler would really be great. Since your at MMI, you might get to do that to your bike as a project. You'll tear so many bikes down, and put back together, that there will be nothing left holding you back from working on your own. The AutoZone stores here sell Mobil 1 bike oil, and its the same price as wally world, plus if you have the autozone card, basically after you spend 100$ with themin 6 months you get 20$ credit.                                     * S & H not included. Thanks good to know that! put a little money back in the old pocket.

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by verslagen1 on 01/30/08 at 20:46:27 Speaking of oil coolers... Since my little experiment with the temperature indicator strip has ended up with a burnt out strip that no longer indicates (eh $10 who's complaining) pretty much tells me I'm operating over 90°C (194°F) for too long.  A typical run for me is a half hour at... 65mph, well maybe average ;D in up to 100° weather. So, I want to add a cooler.  In my search for compatible HD coolers I came across an oil filter kit for the same price.  Hmmm, tap into the ports, plug the cross over between them, leave out the stock filter  And I'll have a nice spin on filter that adds additional volume to the oil reservor and it'll be hanging out in the breeze adding some extra cooling. Or would this filter have too great an impact on oil flow and I would be better off with the stock filter and a cooler instead? So what do you guys think?

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Reelthing on 01/30/08 at 20:57:20 607364657A7771737827160 wrote: Speaking of oil coolers... Since my little experiment with the temperature indicator strip has ended up with a burnt out strip that no longer indicates (eh $10 who's complaining) pretty much tells me I'm operating over 90°C (194°F) for too long.  A typical run for me is a half hour at... 65mph, well maybe average ;D in up to 100° weather. So, I want to add a cooler.  In my search for compatible HD coolers I came across an oil filter kit for the same price.  Hmmm, tap into the ports, plug the cross over between them, leave out the stock filter  And I'll have a nice spin on filter that adds additional volume to the oil reservor and it'll be hanging out in the breeze adding some extra cooling. Or would this filter have too great an impact on oil flow and I would be better off with the stock filter and a cooler instead? So what do you guys think? You could get a screw in filler plug temp gauge I guess and see what temp your really running the engine - 80C is where it seems to be finally warm'd up - 90-100C it and the rider are happy - 100-110C both the bike and the rider are getting a little hot under the collar - >110C and I'll park it for a bit and have a cold something or other

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Onederer on 01/30/08 at 21:25:02 677463627D7076747F20110 wrote: Speaking of oil coolers... Since my little experiment with the temperature indicator strip has ended up with a burnt out strip that no longer indicates (eh $10 who's complaining) pretty much tells me I'm operating over 90°C (194°F) for too long.  A typical run for me is a half hour at... 65mph, well maybe average ;D in up to 100° weather. So, I want to add a cooler.  In my search for compatible HD coolers I came across an oil filter kit for the same price.  Hmmm, tap into the ports, plug the cross over between them, leave out the stock filter  And I'll have a nice spin on filter that adds additional volume to the oil reservor and it'll be hanging out in the breeze adding some extra cooling. Or would this filter have too great an impact on oil flow and I would be better off with the stock filter and a cooler instead? So what do you guys think? Maybe you could add a pressure gauge before and after the filter, in the experimental stage, and try different size filters and lines, until you feel its not hurting flow.

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Ed L. on 01/31/08 at 20:29:34 I've been running an oil cooler on my '02 for about a year. The feed line goes to the plug on the front of the engine and I had to drill and tap a return port in the side cover above the oil filter housing. The way it is set up right now I am getting about 1/2 of the oil pumped thru the cooler with the other half following the stock passageway to the filter. I measured a 1 liter/minute oil flow thru the cooler with a hot engine at 1500 rpms which is respectable. Tried to run a higher rpm but had the PVC test chamber spring a leak. The most interesting thing is that the cooler stays cool for about 5 miles till the engine heats up then you can feel the temperature difference across the cooler as the flow increases, it's a temperature/oil viscosity thing. My feelings so far about the cooler are it's great because it adds extra volumn and cooling to the oil but when you are stuck in traffic the engine still gets hot because of the lack of air flow. A fan would be benificial, maybe on a toggle switch, but that would be even more stuff on the front of the bike. I was looking at the Harley combo filter/cooler setup but realized it was too big. I think I ended up using a cooler out of a GSX'r. Still don't know if it was worth doing it but it works fine.

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by Gort on 01/31/08 at 21:39:50 KwakNut,  I've been told that forcing oil through the stress of bearing surfaces and other moving parts in an engine, causes it to break down on a molecular level.  It is supposed to become less 'slippery', after being subjected to this trauma due to it's molecules being re-arranged.  This was given as the reason why re-cycled oil will never lubricate as well as virgin stock.  Apparently it is not possible to re-arrange the molecules into their original format.  Is there any truth to this?

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by KwakNut on 02/01/08 at 08:21:44 201315091413610 wrote: KwakNut,  I've been told that forcing oil through the stress of bearing surfaces and other moving parts in an engine, causes it to break down on a molecular level.  It is supposed to become less 'slippery', after being subjected to this trauma due to it's molecules being re-arranged.  This was given as the reason why re-cycled oil will never lubricate as well as virgin stock.  Apparently it is not possible to re-arrange the molecules into their original format.  Is there any truth to this? Mostly, yes. Oils break down mostly through exposure to temperature (mainly oxidation) or physical sheer.  When the molecules are ‘broken’ under physical loads, they literally become different substances.  For example, of you break a pair of joined carbon atoms off the oil molecule string, you get a molecule of ethane gas produced – that just bubbles off and disappears through the vent system. The blackness that forms in your oil is just suspended carbon – single carbon atoms in a graphite lattice structure – which are produced both from oil breakdown and, mostly, combustion by-product (ie, burned fuel residue washed off the bores by your oil).  The detergents in the oil stop this carbon from sticking to steel and aluminium, then the dispersants polarise it and make small bits of carbon repel from each other – in that way the carbon particles are kept smaller than the oil film thickness and should not contribute to wear. Others bits of oil molecule are boken off and in effect become lighter strains of petroleum product, but in very, very small quantities.   Those molecules can’t be rearranged or mended, but through filtering and re-distilling the recycled oil stock, they can be mostly eliminated, so recycled oil is useable. Quite happy to put it in my lawnmower or an old high mileage dog of a car – but it wouldn’t come within yards of my bike’s sump!

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by verslagen1 on 02/03/08 at 11:02:22 What I've noticed on my commute (30 to 45 min. at 70 to 30mph) when the temperature strip was working, was 90°c or thereabouts when I get off the freeway.  And quite a bit warmer after 10 min. of stop and go to home.  Ended up adding some escape routes so I could keep her rolling, but still over 90°c when home, just not cooking the inside of my calfs. So here's what I'm thinking... to add in a Yogert inspired oil cooler.  A simple loop of copper or steel tubing from the port on the front of the case to the port on the bottom.  And tee in a temperature gauge and maybe even a pressure gauge.  Found several references to how bad cheap gauges are, so might have to calibrate it too. Adapters can be had for about $10 ea, elbows $5 ea, and a foot or 2 of tubing found in dad's garage while he's not looking, priceless   ;D

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by T Mack 1 on 02/03/08 at 13:13:31 7E5F6477153B0 wrote: I've been running an oil cooler on my '02 for about a year. The feed line goes to the plug on the front of the engine and I had to drill and tap a return port in the side cover above the oil filter housing. The way it is set up right now I am getting about 1/2 of the oil pumped thru the cooler with the other half following the stock passageway to the filter. I measured a 1 liter/minute oil flow thru the cooler with a hot engine at 1500 rpms which is respectable. Tried to run a higher rpm but had the PVC test chamber spring a leak. The most interesting thing is that the cooler stays cool for about 5 miles till the engine heats up then you can feel the temperature difference across the cooler as the flow increases, it's a temperature/oil viscosity thing. My feelings so far about the cooler are it's great because it adds extra volumn and cooling to the oil but when you are stuck in traffic the engine still gets hot because of the lack of air flow. A fan would be benificial, maybe on a toggle switch, but that would be even more stuff on the front of the bike. I was looking at the Harley combo filter/cooler setup but realized it was too big. I think I ended up using a cooler out of a GSX'r. Still don't know if it was worth doing it but it works fine.   Ed,  By taking 1/2 the oil before it gets to the filter,  aren't also reducing the oil flow thru filter in half, and thus the oil going thru the engine in half???????   :o

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by verslagen1 on 02/03/08 at 13:39:53 The tapped hole he added (if I remember correctly) is into the filter chamber, so all of the oil still goes thru the filter.  He added a second path for the oil go.  And it is induced to go thru the cooler because of the restriction that is the cross over from one port to another.  Basically the same as I'm doing, except at some point, I'll close the crossover.

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by T Mack 1 on 02/03/08 at 13:54:50 I remember seeing a pict of his fitting going in to the engine,  but not sure where it would dump back in.   Of interest, the cross-over occurs between the crank-case & side cover,  would be super simple to plug.  Actually,  one could easily re-route a oil cooler to 100% of the oil.     Hmmmmm wonder if the better half will approve of money $ for my toy  ::).....   EDIT: Needed fittings for the two caped ports can be found at: http://www.egauges.com/vdo_acce.asp?Subgroup=Metric_Adapter_Bushings

Title: Re: moving out to AZ hot weather riding Post by barry68v10 on 02/03/08 at 15:14:47 I've been running the same basic setup as Ed_L.  I use a two-pass automotive tranny cooler I got from an auto parts store.  I'm running about 50% of my oil thru the cooler just like Ed.  I've noticed the engine runs much cooler, although I haven't run any tests on it. I wouldn't recommend completely blocking the primary oil passage to the filter housing for the simple reason that the LS650 has an oil return passage in the oil filter cavity for return to the sump.  What does this mean to us? GOOD QUESTION!   This means the oil will siphon out of your oil cooler every time you shut the engine down, and there's little you can practically do about it.  I'd STRONGLY recommend you allow at least 25% of the original oil flow path to provide oiling during startup. If you blocked the oil return to sump in the filter housing, you'd avoid this problem, BUT... then everytime you open the filter housing, a pint of oil will dump onto your exhaust. My $0.02...

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