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Message started by Onederer on 01/19/08 at 09:20:15

Title: Better pulley bearing
Post by Onederer on 01/19/08 at 09:20:15

I noticed that the rear pulley had a significant amount of lateral play. I decided to replace the bearing in an effort to eliminate the sqikedey squeak. Upon disasembly I was at awe, why in the world did suzuki put such a cheap, non-sealed bearing in. I went to a bearing supply company, bearing in hand, bought a new, double-sealed one for less than 15$. Koyo part #63052RSC3 GXM. This is a Japanese bearing. It must be used in quite a few things cause the sales tech basically just looked at the old one, asked if I wanted sealed or not, went and got one, and said "Thats the exact same one". The squeak is still there :( but to a lesser degree :). Maybe if I had of replaced the rubber hub cusions at the same time, I'd be squeak free, at least thats what I thunk, because when bike was new, it had no sqeak.

Title: Re: Better pulley bearing
Post by Kropatchek on 01/20/08 at 06:32:50

The rubber dampers, when new, prevent the pulley to woble.
Bearings: most, if not all, can be replaced by better quality. In Europe most bearing made by SKF are used.

Title: Re: Better pulley bearing
Post by Savage_Greg on 01/23/08 at 20:48:46

I'm so glad that you brought up the pulley wobble. Good point about the bearing.

I bet that if you loosen your belt a little bit, the squeak will stop.

Title: Re: Better pulley bearing
Post by Onederer on 01/23/08 at 22:53:42

I've owned the bike since new, and the squeak developed around 8,000 miles. I have been to the dealerships, and compared the pulley movement of a new bike to mine, and noticed the difference. I use the belt gauge to adjust with, but it does seem to be on the tight side. One theory I have is with wear, the cusions surface becomes smooth (ex. A drag slick on a preped drag strip) allowing enough friction during the cushion loading cycle as the pulley rotates, causing the vibration we hear as a squeak. When the bearing gets sloppy, instead of the hub cusions just providing a direct physical transfer of energy, they try to hold hold the hub true with friction, which they loose at a point, and that release of energy becomes an audible vibration. So........ with that in mind, if some one replaced the pulley bearing before it got to that point, a squeak may never develop. The cushions in my bike have too much wear on them already to tell a differance with just a bearing replacement, I'll get some new ones and see if the squeak completely stops. New cushions have a matte texture. At any rate, the bike did'nt have a squeak when new. If it did, how would Suzuki ever sell it, "It's just the character of the bike, you'll get used to it" ::)? Whoaaaaaaa, I think I'm comeing down from my two pot coffe high, today is now tomorrow, and I sould've went to bed yesterday because I have to work today. :o I will exorcise the demons [smiley=evil.gif]!!!!!!!!Muahhahahahah Caaaaant stop thinking, maybe if the pulley oscillates around its lateral axis during rotation, the squeak could be the belts shearing friction with the pulley surface. OK I think I feel a bottomless pit swallowing my sanity. I just thought of the Sponge Bob episode where he swallowed that pair of squeaking boots.

Title: Re: Better pulley bearing
Post by markbacon on 01/24/08 at 12:01:02

I'm pretty sure the lateral play on the pulley comes from the spacer being too long. The inner race of the bearing isn't held tight by the shoulder on the spacer, so once the cush drive rubbers wear the whole bearing can move a bit.

I've thought of having the spacer skimmed, but I've been watching the situation for a good few thousand km now and there doesn't seem to be any further deterioration.

Title: Re: Better pulley bearing
Post by Onederer on 01/24/08 at 16:05:27

45495A434A494B4746280 wrote:

That is definatly something to look into, but if the inner race was'nt held still, would it spin on the spacer it rides on, leaving score marks? If thinking it would'nt spin because of the load, what about when engine brakeing? To add to the think tank, if the rear wheel is'nt aligned properly, would that cause the pulley load to be off center, causeing accelerated bearing, and cushion wear? If upon further research, the design is just plain under engineered, and the fix is'nt cost effective, I'll just take the muffler off. If a squeak squaks, and no one can hear it, is there still a squeak? [smiley=undecided.gif]

Title: Re: Better pulley bearing
Post by Savage_Greg on 02/09/08 at 06:08:25

The axle bolt and the spacer are stationary. They only maintain the lateral position of the inner races of the bearings (wheel and pulley). The outer races spin as they are supposed to....if they didn't, no wheel spin.

The noticeable play comes from the internal bearing clearances, and anyone that understands a little geometry will know that a small amount of play (angular movement) will translate into a larger amount of travel (a tangential line) over a long distance. That is what gives the appearance of a lot of play, when in fact, it is a very small amount of movement...we are talking about only .002" too.

The only real way to correct it would be to have 2 bearings in the pulley...but is that really necessary? Not in my opinion. There is supposed to be some play in that pulley anyway.

This whole topic has been thrashed around quite a bit. Pulley bushings are a very common thing on many bikes and have been for years. They usually last a very long time (decades) and dirt is probably the biggest wear factor. Search the site...see how many discussions concern bushing wear and older Savages. It just isn't a big deal.

As you noted the belt seemed tight when using the gage. True. Most of us know of and use a different method to adjust the belt. Toss the gage, and use the old mechanics method of adjusting a belt.

Belt squeak is not a matter of mileage. It is not a matter of pulley alignment either. It is not a matter of bearing wear. It is simply a matter of tension. Don't bother trying to reinvent the Savage40, just loosen the belt...

:)

Title: Re: Better pulley bearing
Post by grandpa on 02/11/08 at 13:27:13

I concur with Greg with one additional comment! Had my rear wheel off for a flat. Put it all back together by the book, using the alignment marks and proper belt tension. Used the twist method for tension but still had a significant squeak. Checked how the belt was riding the raer pulley. It was pushed to the outside of the pulley. Made an alignment tool out of a two foot ruler, a couple of nails, and a spring type paper clip. Glued one nail to the end of the ruler and one to the paper clip. Used it to verify that the alignment marks are definitely off. Made both sides the same and no more squeak. Wasn't off very much but evidently enough to cause the belt to ride out against the pulley.

Title: Re: Better pulley bearing
Post by Onederer on 02/13/08 at 06:48:46

I've done everything suggested so far, still squeaks. The only thing that has stopped the squeak is to lube the hub cushions with silicone, when I have the wheel off. The lube completely stops the squeak, until it wears off, then the squeak reappears. That observation led me to install the new bearing, which reduced the amount of play signifficantly, and is double sealed, so it should last longer. I just have'nt got around to putting new cushions in. The old cushions are sevearly worn, and that got me thinking about the pulley slop. I know the squeak has been talked about excesivally, but I had'nt read anything about the bearing, or very little about ppl thinking it was the cushions squeaking and not the belt. I mainly wanted to post to let ppl know about the bearing swap, and to see if anyone else had taken the same road, and if a new bearing and cushions would cure the squeak, because I hav'nt replaced the cushions yet, so I'm still spitting into the wind. Anything added to the tink tank is a benifit. [smiley=dankk2.gif] to evryone who replies with a suggestion, just none of them have worked for me. Maybe I got a Monday AM bike, and the problem is only associated with other Monday AM bikes [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]?

Title: Re: Better pulley bearing
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/16/08 at 14:14:43

I think I saw a post where someone shimmed the wear of the pulley rubbers up with pieces of inner tube & got rid of some pulley wobble.

Title: Re: Better pulley bearing
Post by Digger on 07/23/08 at 20:07:37

3722313E342031500 wrote:

I saw the same thing when I fixed my flat tire a while ago. Here is what I used:

Cheap Rear Wheel Alignment Tool (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1183995917/0#0)

Title: Re: Better pulley bearing
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/23/08 at 21:27:18

I had a used belt & put that on while I was fixing the rear flat, But, while I was in there, I did shim the rubbers with pieces of innertube. They fit snug & that really affected the wobble.

Aligning the rear wheel. Easiest tool Ive come up with was a string. Pull the front hub cover & poke the string in & roll the thing so it goes between belt & pulley. Run the string back to the rear pulley. Hold it tight & bring it touch the rear edge of the front pulley & make the rear line up on that straight string.

I have no squeek now. Is it the new (used) belt? Or is it the shimmed rear hub? I dunno,,