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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1199989344 Message started by Warric on 01/10/08 at 10:22:24 |
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Title: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Warric on 01/10/08 at 10:22:24 Morning all. I ride an 03 LS650, and while tinkering the other nite I altered the throttle stop so that I could open it right up. Instead of getting more top end like I had hoped, the bike floods & starts to die. Is this normal & should the throttle stop be returned? Thanks |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Savage_Greg on 01/10/08 at 10:28:27 Well? How do I answer that? Hmmm. If you do something and it doesn't work, what should you do? |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by T Mack 1 on 01/10/08 at 10:36:04 Like Greg says, put it back first . Then think about it. Next, is it really flooding (wet plug?) or are you getting too much air which will also make it go blah??????? BTW, since I don't have books here at work, where is the throttle stop adjusted...... |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Warric on 01/10/08 at 11:05:28 I do not know, Im not a mechanic. Forget I asked ill put it back. Cheer |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by crimsonblaspheme on 01/10/08 at 12:16:58 As I've found the rebel forum more helpful concerning this bike than most of the people here I will not hesitate to say "savage greg, what the hell is your problem? were you abused as a child? Do you have a terminal illness? Or did your mother just never teach you how to be polite? Stop being such a sarcastic not a very nice person. The point of forums is to exchange information. If you dont want to actually help someone you can refer them to the tech pages or prefereably just shut the crappity smack up" Since I don't imagine I'll be welcome anymore I want to sincerely thank those who were polite and helpful. As for you greg, i wish terrible things on you and If I knew where you lived I'd push your bike over a cliff...maybe with you on it. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by crimsonblaspheme on 01/10/08 at 12:31:45 just be aware I used and am more fond of "stronger" language in your case greg. I assumed my post would just be removed. I didnt know the care bears came around and removed all the profanity. Just be really receptive, I'm thinking ALOT of profanity your way. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by verslagen1 on 01/10/08 at 12:53:49 Are you going to follow greg all over this site and sh!t all over him every chance you get? Why don't you 2 get yourself a room. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by crimsonblaspheme on 01/10/08 at 13:24:28 only when he makes a smart alec comment to someone who's actually looking for advice. He could've just said "look at the tech pages" but he wanted to be a d1ck so...But don't worry, this forum is practically useless. The tech pages are nice, but forum itself has thus far been a waste of my time so you wont be hearing from me much. Although I'm sure you'll still get all of greg's razor sharp wit which you seem to enjoy, so it's all good. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by T Mack 1 on 01/10/08 at 13:55:39 wow... :o Back to the thread,,,,,,,,, So..... where is the throttle stop adjuster? What # on pict attached (2001 carb which should be same as 03) Click on file name here to get blow-up |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Warric on 01/10/08 at 14:52:08 Hi, #37. Part of the throttle cable bracket (think thats what its called) Thanks :) |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by govmule84 on 01/10/08 at 15:39:31 Ahh, Jeez. Put some tougher skin on. There is NO REASON to yank a throttle stop...how in the Good Lord's name would that help performance?! He was just telling him to put it back how it was and leave his paws off it. Most of the crazy stuff we've done to our bikes we've figured out on our own...not without some help, but little, to say the least. Toughen up. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by T Mack 1 on 01/10/08 at 15:42:17 Hmmmm...... Part microfische calls it a screw. At home now and the Fact Serv man doesn't say a thing about it (big surprise........not) Looked at my '01, Yea it stops the throttle movement. Yea, with the screw in the throttle doesn't go a full 90 degrees (maybe 85 or 88). So, your thinking is sort of sound, full 90 would give a bit more "zoom". What did you do to modify it? On mine, take the screw out and throttle shaft goes a bunch of degree's past 90 degree of movemnt which is no good. Did you get a second screw and cut-off the head (make a stud out of it) to get that tiny bit more??? Big question is, with screw in, and WOT is the throttle plate full open (sorry, I have factory Airbox on and its a pain to take carb off )? Next question is, if with this mod you can get the plate at max open, is main jet modified to give that little more fuel you will need? |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by SteveRocket1 on 01/10/08 at 15:43:38 I don't think that is the throttle stop it looks like it is the screw that holds the bracket. I am only able to look at the diagram at the moment. Are any of our carb experts around? They have more knowledge. But first of all put it back to where it was to stop the leak and then research it a bit more. As a lot of others will say "Consider buying the Clymers manual" For $30 odd you will get a ton of knowledge Steve |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by skrapiron on 01/10/08 at 15:46:11 I agree with Greg.. If you don;t know what you're doing, don't dork with it in the first place........... Ignore that advice and you get what you deserve. It is a PURELY MECHANICAL engine. Other than the solid state spark control, the intake timing, exhaust timing, air/fuel ratios are all mechanically controlled. Make just ONE change to any part of that system (from intake to exhaust) and YOU... yes YOU, the one with the screwdriver in hand, better be prepared to RE-TUNE the engine to accomodate the change. Now, as for the original experiment? # 37 is the throttle stop bracket support screw. Why on earth would you every remove that? Without the throttle stop, you are allowing the throttle body to fully close. That's going to result in an over rich idle circuit. Snap the throttle and it's going to sputter and cough until the engine gets enough O2 to compensate. Seriously, just put it back and leave it alone. If you want to tinker, buy a manual.... Or at least ASK BEFORE you take a wrench to it...... |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Savage_Greg on 01/10/08 at 15:55:08 405344455A5751535807360 wrote:
What? Has he been saying bad stuff? And I should worry about someone named Crimsonblaspheme? Does sounds like he's a little red in the face, though. Maybe he'll leave because he has no sense of humor and rides a Rebel anyway. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Savage_Greg on 01/10/08 at 16:03:31 All, but one of you guys are very right. As I was merely trying to teach a lesson in making Warric think about what he did. He should just put it back and start over. It is the only thing to do when you are modifying things in a nonstandard way. And as a few have said. Get a manual, too. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Savage_Greg on 01/10/08 at 16:08:44 46574C48564A4B47494456554D404840250 wrote:
Incidentally, none of exist at your beckon call to answer your questions. You came in here and said you looked around and "didn't find what you wanted". Too bad. We aren't here to hold your hand and help you buy a bike, either. You have one and you need to know what to look for? You ask a dumb question, get a dumb answer, and you are surprised? Change your name. It's stupid. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by demin on 01/10/08 at 16:13:14 Back to the ?.could it be removing that screw also opened up an airway,if it was drilled,and tapped all the way through the body? [smiley=huh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Warric on 01/10/08 at 16:16:32 Thanks to those that have been of help. For those that know everything Iv returned the throttle stop. For those that have forgotten, "You dont know unless you try" |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by demin on 01/10/08 at 16:22:45 Is it running ok now?If it's more power you're after do a muffler change,and jet accordingly.Do the white spacer mod.Punch them up in the search.Not trying to be short with you,just alot of info to read on the subjects.You'll be suprised at what difference these mods make. :o |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by SteveRocket1 on 01/10/08 at 16:46:04 I echo what Denim says , the standard mods Muffler, air filter and Jets if needed seemed to give me about 10% more go Steve |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Warric on 01/10/08 at 17:09:54 Thanks guys. Yep iv just been quoted NZ$700 j exhaust sent out from USA. The same guy is getting back to me with some bigger jet options. I think of read just about every thread in the Tech area, & just about every thread regarding carbies but theres been no mention of the throttle stop screw that i could find. Its put back now and bike is back to running the same. The repair/owners manual seems bloody hard to find here, but Im still looking. Cheers |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Warric on 01/10/08 at 17:11:20 sorry that was supposed to read Jardine slash cut muffler from USA |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by demin on 01/10/08 at 17:16:52 I think that is just a mounting screw for the bracket,I went out,and looked at mine.You are right though it does stop the throttle. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by thumperclone on 01/10/08 at 17:58:50 4A60796A6A75660C0 wrote:
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by verslagen1 on 01/10/08 at 17:59:45 1B31283B3B24375D0 wrote:
Warric you rock, you tried something, you told us what happened, you fixed it. I think we all learned something. To get back to the hijack... Red, How did you help? Not at all, you're guilty of your own outrage. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by thumperclone on 01/10/08 at 18:00:26 ^^ what am i doing wrong for quotes to appear like that??? |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by T Mack 1 on 01/10/08 at 18:27:00 5B5A5256513F0 wrote:
Took mine out to check to see it he was getting air. Small screwdriver stops/bottoms out. Still think it might be too much air, not fuel. Anyone have a carb on the shelf to look at throttle plate travel? |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by skrapiron on 01/10/08 at 19:20:30 I understand the experiment. Remove the bottom mounting screw and rotate the throttle stop. The idea behind it is, if the throttle is allowed more space to 'open', it should provide more power. The problem is, by rotating the throttle stop, you are changing the position of the throttle plate in the throat of the carb. Rotate it clockwise and you close the carb off completely. Rotate it counter clockwise and you open the throttle body too much. From what I can guess, if you did that, you were either rich (getting too much gas) you were lean. (too little gas for the ammount of air being sucked in) wicked lean. If you feel like doing the experiment again, first pull off your intake hose from the carb. Remove the bottom screw and rotate the throttle stop. The observe what it does to the position of the throttle body. That will tell you what direction you were headed. Closed off and you were rich, open it up and you were lean. Like I said before, any changes you make will have to be compensated for. If do the experiment and you find that you made it too rich, then you'd have to minimize your pilot circuit and adjust your air/fuel mix. If you made it too lean, then you'd have to up-jet to get more gas in. (That's not always a bad thing. More air plus more gas means more power!) BUT tuning the engine is just as much art as it is science. A good mechanic can listen to it and tell you if it's in tune or not. That comes from experience. Years of experience. You can't simply throw on a fart can and a performance exhaust and expect an instant 100 horse power. (I feel sorry for the fast&the furious crowd that thinks so) Any change you make, will require you to retune the engine to compensate. That can be as simple as turning the A/F mixture knob a 1/4 turn or so. But it needs to be done to keep the engine in the best state of performance. I'm not faulting you for trying. At least you had the guts to ask for help when you got stuck.... |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by viper on 01/10/08 at 19:28:42 If the stop screw is removed and this allows the thottle blade to go beond 90 deg. the air entering tht venturi area will tumble and not allow fuel to correctly mix with the air. Thottle blades are designed to open in one direction and have no advantage past WOT(wide open thottle) in fact fuel flow drops of after 90 deg. as blade starts to close at90.1 deg. Most thottle blades on smaller engines are not pivioted on the center of the blade. This is used to cause a low pressure area closer to the fuel ports for a quicker mix in a short run to the cylinder. If you try something you think will work to your advantage and it dosn't just put it back the way it was You Don't Know Till You Try. It worked for Frankenstine. Ride on Viper |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by viper on 01/10/08 at 19:31:16 Sorry didn't have spell checker on Viper |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Warric on 01/10/08 at 19:35:43 Thanks HEAPS I think what was happening was I got a bit more power for the 1st couple degrees past the stop, and then as a few hav pointed out, going past the 90 degree mark the fix was going up the buggery & causing the flooding effect. Next little job will be to adjust the stopper so that throttle can open the full 90, but not beyond. Thanks for your thoughts Cheer |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Warric on 01/10/08 at 19:38:43 Savage greg I have visited your website, & tried purchasing a CD last nite, but I dont/wont own a credit card so Im out of luck. I have not complained about any of your comments. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Savage_Greg on 01/10/08 at 19:42:47 364F2F03010953620 wrote:
Took mine out to check to see it he was getting air. Small screwdriver stops/bottoms out. Still think it might be too much air, not fuel. Anyone have a carb on the shelf to look at throttle plate travel?[/quote] You, Skrapiron and Viper sound about right to me. At any rate if the vacuum pressure, which is calibrated to the diaphragm and slide, is changed, you might have the throttle plate wide open and the diaphragm dropping which closes off the the main jet. I doubt that it was flooding as much as starvation. A whole lot of possibilities... As far as the carb goes....You know my history. Of course I do. My carb is always on the shelf ;D I'll go look and come back. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Savage_Greg on 01/10/08 at 20:21:51 I just checked my carb. With a caliper I measured the distance from the throttle plate to the top and the bottom of the intake (sort of the radius). With the throttle wide open it measures .765" from the bottom up to the plate, and it measures .750" from the top down to the plate. That makes "wide open" position about .007" above the 90 degree point (if you split the difference). |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by crimsonblaspheme on 01/10/08 at 20:42:43 Incidentally, none of exist at your beckon call to answer your questions. You came in here and said you looked around and "didn't find what you wanted". Too bad. We aren't here to hold your hand and help you buy a bike, either. You have one and you need to know what to look for? You ask a dumb question, get a dumb answer, and you are surprised? Change your name. It's stupid. No none of you exist for me and as I pointed out you didnt have to answer, you also didnt have to be an a$$. You couldve shut the hell up. No I didnt find exactly what I wanted which is why I asked. Again, you COULD answer if you know, or you COULD shut the hell up. No sarcasm or rudeness is necessary. And I dont want you to hold my hand to buy a bike, but as I already said once I own a REBEL, not a SAVAGE. There's a difference, but you should know that since you know everything but are too mighty to bestow such wisdom upon us who are new to the savage. I asked what I should look for concerning a specific year bike. an 88 savage. Once again you could answer OR shut the hell up. You apparently didnt read anything I had asked since you were too busy sharpening your "wit". The only thing I'm surprised about is that you didnt get beat as a child...or maybe you did. Either way I blame your parents and everyone who never whipped the snot out of you. And as far as my name goes...my dad can beat up your dad. Now, I'm finished. You win. Everyone clap for greg.If you like we can continue this one on one so as not to ruin the forum further. I'm heading west this summer, I'd love to stop by where ever you are on my way and we can talk. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by crimsonblaspheme on 01/10/08 at 20:45:57 4F5C4B4A55585E5C5708390 wrote:
Warric you rock, you tried something, you told us what happened, you fixed it. I think we all learned something. To get back to the hijack... Red, How did you help? Not at all, you're guilty of your own outrage.[/quote] I Pm'd him with a suggestion to try the tech page, and that Id read many people use a washer or some other thinner spacer. Which is more than greg did. What are you two married? He obviously can defend himself. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Savage_Greg on 01/10/08 at 20:47:46 3928333729353438363B292A323F373F5A0 wrote:
Boy, I believe that I know why you don't hang out in the Rebel forum anymore... BTW, quoting works better if you use the "quote" button. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Warric on 01/10/08 at 20:53:15 Savage_Greg No offence taken, tis all gud. Me, Im a Dairy Farmer (hence the reason I like to tinker 1st, ask last lol) from New Zealand. Iv havent heard of PayPal, but if there is some way i could deposit $$ into some bank account, I would be very keen for a CD. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by verslagen1 on 01/10/08 at 21:08:48 2233282C322E2F232D20323129242C24410 wrote:
Not only bad advice, but completely wrong, and still no help at all. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Savage_Greg on 01/10/08 at 21:09:44 6B41584B4B54472D0 wrote:
Dairy farmer? An honest living there. That's what PayPal is...money transfers. It's usually what's used on eBay, too. Hmmm. Here's the link: https://www.paypal.com/ Anyway, send me a PM. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by crimsonblaspheme on 01/11/08 at 13:00:25 bad advice maybe, but it was bad advice off this forum from someone else. All i told him is what I read and to go read it himself. And I'm welcomed in the rebel forum. No one there has a bug up their a$$. NOW I'm finished. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by thumperclone on 01/11/08 at 13:09:18 30213A3E203C3D313F3220233B363E36530 wrote:
boy i gettin tired of readin this crimson kids crap..go away till your sac drops |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by eanon on 01/11/08 at 13:59:39 ::) |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Warric on 01/11/08 at 14:17:28 crimsonblaspheme Look chap, Iv been told plenty of times that Im big enuff & ugly enuff to look after meself, so piss off somewhere else ae. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Savage_Greg on 01/12/08 at 08:51:34 062C352626392A400 wrote:
Hey guys, I'm sorry that I stirred all this up. It's just that I could tell that "Red" was one of those types that is all about "Me". He didn't come here to contribute to the forum. There are a lot of folks here that work pretty hard to help others, and in the Tech section there is info on just about every nut and bolt on the LS650...but he didn't even want to take the time to look for it. http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/action-smiley-078.gif So...shall we get back to the carb? Are you sure that you're getting full travel from your throttle cable? |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by thumperclone on 01/12/08 at 12:30:57 greg do see it as you did anything.. T.C. sez: some peoples' kids |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Warric on 01/12/08 at 12:48:00 Yes, that was my 1st thought, but it was defintly the stopper that was the problem (is that what you mean?). Its only hitting by aprox 1 - 1.5mm, so not hard to grind that off. But then Id be back to opening up past the 90 degree mark. Cheer |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Warric on 01/12/08 at 12:52:54 Carburetor Clenaup threard has a pic. Its a bolt for holding on the "Not in Clymers, cable holder". |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Savage_Greg on 01/13/08 at 10:55:29 4F657C6F6F7063090 wrote:
You mean here :P http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/Carb_Parts_01.jpg I really gotta go get back to work. I'll check back later... |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Warric on 01/13/08 at 12:59:06 1st pic is the only place its visible. Basicaly to the right of your arrow, below the spring. Here it looks to be open past this screw, and that little leg thats pointing down appears to be slightly bent to miss the screw? Thoughts? Cheers |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Warric on 01/13/08 at 13:01:05 Sorry it doesnt look open at all! Monday blues, theres a 2nd "leg" futher round |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Reelthing on 01/13/08 at 19:52:08 4B61786B6B74670D0 wrote:
D@mit -$550usd- that's too much for a jardine - I have a pair of savages both with jardines - the 1995 model likely has at least 1500 hours on it runs great (time for the cam chain however) and the jardine sounds real fine - the 2002 savage has at most 100 hours and the jardine is rather harsh sounding and has started to rattle a bit on the inside. Perhaps the quality isn't quite like it was a few years ago. you might want to think on that price a bit - likely another solution can be found |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Savage_Greg on 01/14/08 at 04:33:57 5C6B6B627A666760690E0 wrote:
Yours is not the first Jardine, that I've heard, that had a loose baffle or something inside. |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Reelthing on 01/14/08 at 06:40:31 perhaps it has been "cost reduced" in the last few years |
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Title: Re: Flooding when accelerating past throttle stop Post by Savage_Greg on 01/14/08 at 06:56:32 3007070E160A0B0C05620 wrote:
The last one was a Be_Savage member that bought a used one back in 2003. So, I have no idea how old. It kinda sounded like crap, too. |
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