|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Oil change for cooler weather? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1199117756 Message started by skatnbnc on 12/31/07 at 08:15:55 |
|
Title: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by skatnbnc on 12/31/07 at 08:15:55 I'm running on SAE 15W-50 oil now, but should I switch to a lighter weight for winter? What about 10W-40? Temps are about 40F here and I ride 6 days a week, short distances. Experiences with different oil types welcome, but no brand name fights - I just need performance/wear info! |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by bill67 on 12/31/07 at 09:14:16 I guess your alright the owners manual says you can use 15/50 down to about 9 degree. I have used synthetic since it came out,I guess its better.Its thinner in cold weather too. |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by skatnbnc on 12/31/07 at 09:48:29 I guess I could be more specific as to why I am asking - the heavier oil works well in the summer here, but in the winter will it take longer to circulate through? Especially since I only ride short distances (4-6 miles 2x a day) And if so, will that cause problems with the clutch and engine because the oil is not circulating properly? |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by bill67 on 12/31/07 at 10:11:09 I would use the 10/40,unless you have synthetic in now then I wouldn't change it unless its due for a change. |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by vtail on 12/31/07 at 11:31:38 You're fine with the oil you're using. The oil only acts (flows) like a 50W at high temperature and like a 15W at a low temperature :) |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by skatnbnc on 12/31/07 at 11:54:56 5557424A4F230 wrote:
Tell me what the HECK that means in plain English please! :-? |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by thumperclone on 12/31/07 at 12:23:46 when its cooler start your bike sooner and let her warm up longer than you would in the summer temps..this insures all moving parts are well lubed b4 twisin the throttle... ;) |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by Paladin. on 12/31/07 at 13:41:17 2E363C29333F333E5D0 wrote:
Tell me what the HECK that means in plain English please! :-? [/quote]m-w.com: Main Entry: vis·cos·i·ty 2 : the property of resistance to flow in a fluid or semifluid A 10w oil is thin, at room temperature flows almost as easy as water. 90w gear oil, at room temperature, flows like room temperature honey. 40w oil will be somewhere inbetween. Honey or oil thins as you warm it, thickens as it cools. A multi-weight oil, such as a 20w-50w is less temperature sensitive -- at low temperatures it flows as easy as a 20w, at high temperaatures maintains thickness needed to lubricate like a 50w. |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by Reelthing on 12/31/07 at 13:59:45 oh boy an oil thread! - Mobil1 rules the world - 20W-50 vtwin summer heat and 10w-40 MX4T winter cold |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by vtail on 12/31/07 at 16:10:45 3D252F3A202C202D4E0 wrote:
Tell me what the HECK that means in plain English please! :-? [/quote] Paladin already beat me to it with an excellent explanation :) |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by Paladin. on 12/31/07 at 16:30:22 696B7E76731F0 wrote:
|
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by YonuhAdisi on 12/31/07 at 16:37:45 7C4D404D4845422C0 wrote:
[/quote] ;D ;D Oh that is a good one. |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by rigidchop on 12/31/07 at 17:41:29 cell phones dont react well to the older monitors either, i have a new 22" lcd and haven't noticed any problems with interference yet. sorry about hijacking the thread. |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by Mr 650 on 12/31/07 at 21:10:43 Sounds like you have synthetic in there so not much to worry about. I wouldn't change it, just let it warm up a little longer. I find prefered cruise speed is proportional to the temperature anyway. |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by Gort on 01/01/08 at 08:31:12 Concerning oil viscosity, a few years ago after moving to a cold climate I noticed that the oil pressure gauge on my car showed a much higher reading in winter than it did in summer, until the engine warmed up. To my understanding, the Mobil 1 synthetic 10W-40 should not do this because its supposed to be thinner in the cold and thicker when warm. But the oil pressure gauge disproved this. So I contacted Mobil 1 and asked them about it. They said that the oil will not get thinner in the cold nor thicker in the heat. They said you cannot defy the laws of physics in this matter. They explained that it lubricates better in these wide temperature variations than would a single weight oil, but it does not get thinner in the cold nor vise/versa. I had always heard that multi-viscosity oils are thinner in the cold, but my oil pressure gauge says differently. Are their any graduate chemical engineers out there who can better explain this? |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by Oldfeller on 01/01/08 at 09:00:19 Ok, explain 0-50 Mobil One to me then. When it's cold it flows like it isn't there and when it's hot it gets all gooey? ;D ;D jest kiddn' -- when its cold it flows like a zero weight oil (zero on a viscosity test flow meter scale that was set up a long time ago by automotive engineers when getting a 10 wasn't very durn likely) And the flow rate of this oil doesn't change much at all, flowing like a dino 50 weight oil does when it gets all hot and loosey goosey. I am a fan of synthetic oil, BTW. You have to get synthetic oils up to over 350 degrees F to even begin to hurt them. I would think that any FULL synthetic 10w30, 10w40, 0w50, 15w50 would likely be sufficent to keep our scoots healthy winter or summer. Why would a FULL synthetic 10w30 work in the summer time when Suzuki doesn't recommend the 10w30 weight when temperatures get much over the 90 degree range? Because the rating was set for dino oils that change viscosity greatly as the temperature goes up. And FULL synthetics don't change their viscosity very much at all in any bike temperature range. Mobil One was developed for lubricating jet engines -- which run up in the 400 degree ranges fairly commonly. And why do you think Mobil One is the only oil recommended for use in a turbocharger? Because they get right warm in normal use, that's why. |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by bill67 on 01/01/08 at 09:01:46 10w oil is thinner than 40w,10/40 is 10w that will protect as good as 40w oil when it is hot. It all will be thicker in cold weather.synthetic has a lower pour point. so will be better in cold weather |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by Gort on 01/01/08 at 12:00:36 I'm getting lost here. If all this is true, then why does Mobil One 10W40 cause an oil pressure gauge to show far greater than normal pressure on engine start-up when it is 35 degrees outside, normal pressure when it is 75 degrees outside, and then show normal pressure once the engine reaches operating temperatures regardless of outside temperatures? High oil pressure which changes to normal upon the engine reaching operating temperatures should be a function of viscosity, shouldn't it? If so, then this oil is thicker when it is cold. |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by bill67 on 01/01/08 at 12:38:57 All oil is thicker when cold |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by thumperclone on 01/01/08 at 13:49:09 molecules move slower cold and faster hot,cold is denser(ice?)hot is less dense(steam vapor?)....cold molecules are smaller than hot.. if you took equal amounts of 10w oil and 40w oil and put them in a glass vessal you could see that they seperate... multi vis oils are treatted so seperation is less likley, the thinnerweight heats up and FLOWS faster than the higher weight... but to the original thread question skat's oil is just fine for where she is...as Any cool/cold engine starting longer warm up times are necessary to insure the lube(life blood of air cooled engines)is well dispersed to all friction points... |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by barry68v10 on 01/01/08 at 15:01:20 786479617C697E6F606362690C0 wrote:
Except for the fact that water is denser when warmer (water is denser than ice which is why ice floats...) ;D In Hawaii, I wouldn't worry too much about changing oil for summer vs. winter, but in Alaska, you can't start an engine in the winter without full synthetic OR a serious engine/oil pan heater... |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by barry68v10 on 01/01/08 at 15:10:06 As a side note, full synthetic oil will act 1 or 2 full temp ranges higher due to the fact that it resists thermal breakdown and viscosity change so much better than dyno... Cold pour point and pumping threshold are useful to describe how an oil acts in cold weather. Most full synthetic 20W50 have lower pour point and pumping thresholds in cold weather than 5W30 dyno fluid. For example the Amsoil 10W40 I use has a -51 degree F pour point, while most dyno 5W-30's have a 0 degree F pour point. BIG DIFFERENCE! In general, winter and summer weight ratings ONLY apply to dyno oils, not full synthetics as my example above clearly demonstrates. |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by barry68v10 on 01/01/08 at 15:14:24 5B7870727178787166140 wrote:
No offense intended, Oldtimer, but this tells me Mobil used SOO MUCH viscosity improver that the actual lubrication characteristics can't be very good because there's not much room left for anti-wear agents and oil... :'( |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by Oldfeller on 01/01/08 at 16:55:17 Barry, the base oil isn't oil -- it is a lab created uniform polymer chain which just doesn't change viscosity very much. There isn't much percentage points of additives in full synthetic oil compared to old style dino oil -- they simply adjust the base polymer chains themselves to get a given viscosity. I doubt additives get much over 2-3 percent in Mobil One and any of the similar real full synthetics. |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by Gort on 01/01/08 at 17:13:18 Concerning Mobil One's actual lubricating characteristics not being so good, the United States military uses it for their cold weather operations among many other applications and the military only buys the best with our tax dollars, and subjects what it wants to buy to stringent MilSpec testing before it approves of it. Soldiers die if the product isn't the best. Amsoil has been around for a long time, however never took off like the competition. I never see it sold anywhere except out of the back of someone's trunk. I wonder if Amsoil has the multi-million dollar developmental labs and world class chemical engineers that Mobil has, to develop their product. I for one would trust the world leader in synthetic oil before I would trust a product marketed through a network of home based sales people. |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by barry68v10 on 01/01/08 at 18:42:03 Having been involved in gov't acqisitions for the last 10 years or so, forgive me if I respectfully disagree. Often times, what the gov't buys is based on who needs to be propped up financially, certainly not the best product. Lowest bidder! Right?!? Would you buy a car that way? I'm not suggesting that Mobil 1 synthetic is a "bad product." It's just simply not the best product for the money. With regard to Amsoil marketing, their lack of multimillion dollar marketing schemes is what keeps a superior product priced below the competition. But each person has to interpret marketing ploys in their own way... |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by barry68v10 on 01/01/08 at 18:56:36 65464E4C4F46464F582A0 wrote:
Oldfeller, a full synthetic 30 wt. oil gets a 10w-30 rating with NO viscosity improvers. I would have to do the research on actual percentages and can if you're interested, but NO oil I've seen with a 50-point swing in viscosity ratings comes close to measuring up to my standards for lubrication properties...granted, I'm pretty picky and have been called "anal" on occasion wrt similar topics. :-[ On a standard ANSI 4-ball wear test, anything above .5mm fails in my book. |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by Gort on 01/01/08 at 21:12:13 The government does not buy from "whomever has the best product', as every manufacturer will tell you he has the 'best product' and back it up with biased reports by testing companies that are paid by the manufacturer to report on their product. (You may have seen that expose on all the oil additives that are advertised on TV). The government sets its own MilSpec standards which bidders are required to comply with, before they bid on the contract. The lowest bidder complying with MilSpec standards gets the bid. There are federal watchdog agencies whose job it is to make sure that the lowest bidder who complies, gets the contract. Favoritism is illegal and if uncovered, (and it is, from time to time) is a federal crime. So yes, I would buy a car from the lowest bidder as long as he met my specifications. As for Amsoil being a superior product, why isn't the world using it? If it was that superior, by now after all these many years the truth would have gotten out and it would be a major player. I may well be wrong, but the only places I ever saw it being pushed was by home based salesmen trying to sell it out of their garages and occasionally as a side display in a small privately owned auto parts store where the owner is also distributor. |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by Dark Savage on 01/02/08 at 07:24:15 6251574B5651230 wrote:
All oil is thicker when it is cold. Thus you have higher oil pressure when it is cold. A synthetic oil rated at 10w30 is the same viscosity as a conventional oil rated at 10w30. You will see many synthetics though that have a 0w30 or 0w40 rating. The 0w30 does not mean that the oil is thinner (or even the same viscosity) when cold as a 10w30 that is at operating temperature. It is still going to be thicker because it is much colder. However, it won't be as thick when cold as a 10w30 is when cold. There are several things that make a synthetic oil better than a conventional oil. First, a synthetic oil does not break down due to heat as quickly as a conventional oil. Second, all the molecules of a synthetic oil are close to the same size. A conventional oil has a much larger range of size to the molecules. This makes the synthetic oil flow through very small passages easier and helps it get into all the little cracks and crevices. This doesn't really help the oil flow through larger passages easier, cold or hot, but it does help get the oil to all the nooks and crannies that conventional oil has trouble getting to. This is why an older vehicle may leak oil with synthetic but have no leaks with conventional. Continued... |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by Dark Savage on 01/02/08 at 07:25:55 The third reason requires a little explanation of how you get a conventional oil from a straight weight oil (i.e. 30 weight, not 10w30) to a multi weight oil. To get a conventional oil to act as a 10 weight oil when cold and a 30 weight oil at operating temperature requires starting with a 10 weight oil. That covers the cold side of things. Then they add what is called a viscosity improver. A viscosity improver makes the oil less affected by heat. Thus when the oil is heated to operating temperature it is not as thin as the 10 weight oil that it started out as would be at operating temperature. A synthetic oil in it's plain manufactured form (no viscosity improvers added) is already less affected by heat. It's performance already matches a conventional multi-weight oil. So a synthetic oil is going to use less viscosity improver to get to the desired multi-weight rating than it would take to get there with a conventional oil. In some cases it may already be at the performance level you want and thus would require no viscosity improvers. Why is that so good? What's wrong with using viscosity improvers? Well a viscosity improver will break down due to heat easier than oil does. So after a couple thousand miles in an engine the heat has caused some of the viscosity improver to break down. The oil then is no longer performing up to it's multi-weight rating. It is thinner when at operating temperature than when you first put it in there. The break down of the viscosity improver is called "shearing". So a synthetic oil "shears back" less than a conventional oil because it uses less viscosity improvers. As you can see also, an oil with a 5w30 rating starts with a thinner oil than a 10w30 and uses more viscosity improvers to get to the 30 weight rating at operating temperature. A 5w30 then has more potential to "shear back" to a thinner oil than a 10w30 if the base oil is of comparable quality. |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by skatnbnc on 01/02/08 at 10:41:27 [/quote]m-w.com: Main Entry: vis·cos·i·ty 2 : the property of resistance to flow in a fluid or semifluid A 10w oil is thin, at room temperature flows almost as easy as water. 90w gear oil, at room temperature, flows like room temperature honey. 40w oil will be somewhere inbetween. Honey or oil thins as you warm it, thickens as it cools. A multi-weight oil, such as a 20w-50w is less temperature sensitive -- at low temperatures it flows as easy as a 20w, at high temperaatures maintains thickness needed to lubricate like a 50w. [/quote] Ahhhh....so much easier now, all better with the honey explaination...! ;) As for the technical oil thread that spun off of this original question ~ you all just go for it; my question has been answered so I'm outta here! ;D |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by barry68v10 on 01/02/08 at 17:02:45 0E3D3B273A3D4F0 wrote:
Walmart offered the president of Amsoil, AJ Amatuzio, a multi-million dollar contract to sell Amsoil. AJ said, "no." Why? The guy has integrity and good business sense. Independent dealers (translate garage salesmen if you like) made the company and he has committed to never let the stucture of the company change. Also, he knows that if a company like Walmart (not that I have anything against them) gets involved the quality of the product will suffer because they will begin to dictate pricing over quality. I don't expect Amsoil business practices to change anytime in the future. |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by Gort on 01/02/08 at 17:14:09 Barry, I didn't know that. You've got to respect a man who stands on his principles even though he will lose a lot of money. The corporate thieves at Mobil wouldn't do that. I'd buy Amsoil for that reason alone, not to mention that it offers a way to take your hard earned $ away from the dirt bag oil corporations. I know a guy who sells it, and I am now going to buy it. |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by bill67 on 01/02/08 at 17:57:07 I really don't think walmart needed amsoil. |
|
Title: Re: Oil change for cooler weather? Post by Oldfeller on 01/02/08 at 23:06:54 Walmart has a home brand of synthetic oil already. SuperTech Synthetic 10w30 is what I use in my older "oil burning" cars. |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |