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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> To tick or not to tick...... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1198362961 Message started by eanon on 12/22/07 at 14:36:01 |
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Title: To tick or not to tick...... Post by eanon on 12/22/07 at 14:36:01 So I mentioned that I seem to have a tick. The bike, not me! ;) I did a valve adjustment and that seemed to help a little, but after a couple of weeks, the ticking started again. I've done quite a bit of research, as well as starting a couple of threads, and the general consensus seems to be cam chain/adjuster. I will be taking a look at that sometime next week, but for today, I decided to do "Lancer's simple carb tuning". The average for me was 2.75 turns out (time to rejet :D). Took her out for a test ride, and what do you know, the ticking is all but gone!?!? Huh? What gives? Can adjusting the carb mixture get rid of a tick? Or is the noise just in my head? Still backfires though on shut down though. ::) |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Trippah on 12/22/07 at 16:15:04 Rythmic ticking deserves a logical diagnostic tree, which I don't have. Can come from the expansion/retraction of metal due to heat. can be something hitting, the first step is to determine if in increases with similar incrase in rpm of the engine without drivetrain engaged. Anything that moves can, like spedomter cable, through to include wheel movement. Kinda sounds like with the carb adjustment the bike is running stronger, thus a decibel or two louder, perhaps masking out the tick. Good luck, I'km sure someone else can give more reasonable suggestions..happy holidays. |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Savage_Greg on 12/22/07 at 16:17:14 Having a "tick" is actually normal. So the relative question is, how much "tick"? I don't know your experience level with bikes, but if you are only familiar with auto engines or 2-strokes, then you may not have any problem with what you hear. Just remember that you are SUPPOSED to have some valve lash on your adjusters, therefore you will have some "tick". The valve train is totally mechanical, unlike the hydraulic lifters in a car or some bikes. So, with that in mind, the only factors that are important are how well the engine runs, the location of the noise and how many miles are on the engine. You are riding a Thumper and they have their own personality... Besides, it's kinda like the clock on my shop wall. When it's really quiet, it also has a "tick" :P |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by SavageWahine on 12/22/07 at 17:31:58 66626D6C6D030 wrote:
I think you'll find that rejetting will get rid of your backfire. Mine now makes a small poof sound with shut-off, and that's with 1.5 turn out. I put in a 155 pilot and 52.5 main. Oh yeah!! did the spacer thingy too. |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Savage_Greg on 12/23/07 at 06:22:41 657F606D62687B6D646562690C0 wrote:
...155 pilot and 52.5 main.....[/quote] The Savage Ladies are so cute! That would be a 155 main and 52.5 pilot, by the way. |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Savage_Greg on 12/23/07 at 06:36:03 By the way...and I've meant to mention this before... THERE IS NO SET NUMBER OF TURNS ON THE MIXTURE SCREW! The reason for the screw is for adjustment to compensate for variations in the manufacturing and setup of the carburetor and the engine. The screw is for FINE TUNING of the air/fuel flow through those tiny little passages and jets...which all have variations in flow....from one carb to the next carb. Therefore, JUST BECAUSE I HAVE MINE SET AT 1 1/2 TURNS, DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOURS WILL BE RIGHT AT THAT SETTING! You adjust the screw for what makes your engine run best...NOT what others use. So, there is absolutely no reason to tell others what your carb is set at...it's pointless. ...and if you don't believe that, then you have never synchronized a bank of 4 carbs on an inline 4 cylinder engine either. |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Hutch on 12/23/07 at 06:49:21 685D4A4870191A1F2F0 wrote:
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Savage_Greg on 12/23/07 at 07:10:13 Thanks, Hutch. I'm thinking this needs to be included in some Tech topic, but I don't know where. |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by verslagen1 on 12/23/07 at 07:25:38 2D29262726480 wrote:
I betcha the tick is off your engine although related to the rpm due to vibration. Check your headlight. Many different sounds can come from it I've discovered. So every time I hear an odd sound I'll reach forward and grab the lense, if it goes away I'm done. ;D |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Hutch on 12/23/07 at 07:25:55 Those vacuum bars with multi guages were the CATS for adjusting multi carbs, To bad mine grew legs and walked away, if you know what I mean. Good luck on the tick. Those and rattles will drive you nuts tracking them down. It is amazing how sound will "travel". Hutch |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Savage_Greg on 12/23/07 at 07:51:03 203D3C2B20480 wrote:
I don't have those fancy vacuum bars. I just have the old style gages :( Ya, sound travels, and with my tinnitus, I don't even know the direction sometimes. Have to use an element of educated quesswork and a long screwdriver or stethoscope :) |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by steely on 12/23/07 at 22:00:47 043126241C757673430 wrote:
Holy crap, this is true. That screw is to maximize whatever you want to get out of the motor. I learned this on my GS850. That bike has made me appreciate my thumper even more. Sync'ing the 4 carbs on that was a pregnant dog. |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by verslagen1 on 12/23/07 at 22:47:51 It has been suggested that you have the pilot screw out no further than 3 turns to avoid having it vibrate out somewhere on the road. But, hey if you think you need a new one, be gregs guess. :P |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by LANCER on 12/24/07 at 04:24:33 20242B2A2B450 wrote:
Since you are all the way out to 2.75 turns out, and especially with some backfiring on shutdown, I would suggest that you go to the next larger size pilot jet. Anytime you you go beyond 2 turns out it would be good to go to the next size. The ideal is to have the jetting such that the carb reaches its best tune when the screw is in the 1.5 turns out area. |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by skrapiron on 12/24/07 at 05:31:01 I just wanted to reinforce a little of what Greg said earlier. The engine on our thumpers is a refined mechanical beast. With the exception of spark timing (which is solid state), everything else depends on timing and adjustment. The Savage is unlike the modern era of cars and some bikes where you can basically hear nothing from under the hood. If you hear NOTHING, you have the adjustments set too tight. If you hear an excess, you are set too loose. To be honest, if your bike sounds like an angry sewing machine (rhythmic and mechanical without being over-loud) you have it dead on where it needs to be.... Come to think about it, when was the last time you saw a carb or mechanical lifters on a car? Mine was my 1986 Bonneville. Since then, every car I've owned has been fuel injected with an over head cam. It's no wonder people are intimidated by something as mechanical as the Savage. We (the older guys) grew up setting points and dwell and had to actually worry about keeping the engine in tune. Today, all that is done by a computer. A modern tune-up is no more than replacing worn spark plugs... I miss the old days... Maybe that's why I love my Savage so much! |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Hutch on 12/24/07 at 06:56:12 243C2536273E253839570 wrote:
Amen to that one. It brings to mind something my dad said when they first put "automatic" chokes on cars. "They are building cars for dummies". Kinda holds true for bikes too. There seems to be more motorcycle "riders", than motorcyclists. The way they build them now, we will all soon be just "riders". Remove and replace has taken the place of adjust and tweek. Hutch |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Reelthing on 12/24/07 at 07:40:31 reminds me - I had an a 650 yamaha chop - was a little rough and the guy couldn't get it started - sold it to me for next to nothing - got it home and both sets of had rusted stuck together - pry'd them apart kicked the thing - boom blup blup blup blup - ran fine - he was some kind of po'd - heard it fire up the other side f the apartment cmplex :) |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Hutch on 12/24/07 at 07:43:55 6F585851495554535A3D0 wrote:
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Savage_Greg on 12/24/07 at 08:43:44 4B534A5948514A5756380 wrote:
Well said. |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Savage_Greg on 12/24/07 at 08:48:58 535E515C5A4D0D083F0 wrote:
And most motorcycle manuals state 1 1/2 turns for the position to use on a carb rebuild. That is intended as the starting point which will allow the engine to start. I believe that even the early Savages had a setting for this screw. It was later years that it became factory "pre-set". |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by eanon on 12/25/07 at 18:25:23 Sorry I didn't reply earlier. Was out of town. Like I said in the original post, the ticking almost disappeared when I tuned the carb, so I think the engine is doing ok. You're right, I don't have much wrench time, unlike you older guys, and am used to a near silent engine (at least from the inside of the car). Whoever referenced the "pissed off sewing machine" hit the nail on the head. Thats a great description of what she sounds like, so apparently there's no cause for concern. I'm on the list for the next batch of verslavys, so that will eliminate some worry from my mind. Maybe I'm being overly cautious, but like I said in my first ever post on this wonderful board, "I just don't want to experience catastrophic engine failure at 75 mph!" :o Thanks again for all the help. I also have the companion cd on the way, so hopefully I will be more of a wrench soon! Happy Holidays! :D |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Savage_Greg on 12/26/07 at 05:28:40 07030C0D0C620 wrote:
Another thing to remember is that topics on this site can be a little misleading because of their overall subject matter. What you read about the most are problems, and that can lead to a misconception (for newbies anyway) about the Savage40...it's kinda like the "nightly news". People seldom write about how well their bike is doing, how long since the last maintenance, or the rides they took on the bike. So, in a way, it might even be a miracle that people actually buy one after reading this forum anyway. Oh yeah, "catastrophic engine failure at 75 mph" is extremely rare...that's possibly due to our conversations about fixing them and keeping them in proper running condition. If you just listen to your bike, it will tell you when something is wrong long before that could happen. |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by LANCER on 12/26/07 at 06:00:03 Quote:
Yep, the foundation of any relationship is good communication. ;D It is true. |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Savage_Greg on 12/26/07 at 06:59:22 You study the manual, perform regular maintenance, and pay attention to detail. With a motorcycle you must become a "Bike Whisperer" :P |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by eanon on 12/26/07 at 13:00:27 "psss psss psssp....." What? Harder? Faster? Oh wait, that's my girlfriend, not my bike! ;D |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Savage_Greg on 12/26/07 at 14:00:34 Oh gee...Someone thinks they're a Thumper :P |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Hutch on 12/27/07 at 11:44:06 I only hope the same thing doesn't happen to our Savage as that has happened to the Royal Enfield. The motor that powered it for 50+ years has been discontinued. It was replaced by a new motor about 5 years ago, and that is being discontinued, because neither can meet epa standards. The newest motor is now fuel injected with a fuelpump bolted to the tank and gobs of sensors and wiring. The days of people like Greg, Lancer, myself and others here are numbered. I too took pride in listening to a motor talk to me and telling me when to quit turning the carb screw or timing plate. I guess that is why I have become a classic bike rider. These new contraptions can't be worked on in the backyard. It won't be long and everyone will just be motorcycle RIDERS, and not motorcyclist. That is all you will be able to do is ride it. Gone will be the pride of knowing the bike runs great through your own effort. I believe the Royal Enfield company will continue, because the Bullet is the only bike they make. What I am afraid of is that Suzuki will not be able to justify the cost of upgrading the Savage to keep it in the line up, and will drop it. That will be a sad day. Hutch |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Savage_Greg on 12/27/07 at 14:24:43 4D5051464D250 wrote:
And that's the day that the Savage really becomes famous :P |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Savage_Rob on 12/27/07 at 14:35:23 Never cared for ticks myself. Try to avoid the cedar when hunting. |
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Title: Re: To tick or not to tick...... Post by Savage_Greg on 12/27/07 at 14:47:55 7745524543417B764B46240 wrote:
But I bet you wouldn't mind "Checking someone for Ticks" ;D Ticks (http://www.anysonglyrics.com/lyrics/b/bradpaisley/Ticks-Lyrics.html) |
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