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Message started by Christian Groth on 12/19/07 at 07:35:02

Title: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by Christian Groth on 12/19/07 at 07:35:02

Hello! This post is long overdue.

I've been lurking here since Oct 06, but haven't posted before since any question I had was already answered. Thank you all for this wonderful resource. I have gotten lots of good info from you this year.

I bought my 95 Savage in Nov 06, largely due to this site, the info available here, and the obvious enthusiasm you have for this bike. And the price.

I have been riding to work any day I could, which means any day that I didn't need to haul anyone or anything that wouldn't fit on my bike, wasn't raining in the morning, and temperature higher than 45°F.

It's that last criterion that I have a question about.

Above 50 my bike runs fine. Between 45 and 50, it will run fine if I stay below 55mph and stay out of 5th gear. Below 45°, however, the bike won't idle, runs rough, and threatens to die. It acts as though it were running out of gas. Blipping the throttle a bit keeps it from dying.

Now down here in central Texas, it doesn't get very cold or stay cold long, but it gets irritating when the temp is 42-43 in the morning, preventing me from riding, then rises into the 70s by noon, leaving me in the truck on the way home during a beautiful bike day.

I suspect there are two problems my bike has with the cold. One is the too-lean setting in the carb, that is even worse in the cold, denser air. The other is the fact that the big single cylinder cools off too well and too much.

I have already popped out the plug to the idle mixture screw and adjusted that, which helped but didn't solve this problem. I am getting ready to open up the carb to do the white spacer modification, which should help also.

I know there are Savage owners that live in much colder areas. Do you have any tips, tricks, adjustments, modifications that help your bike in the winter?

I have thought about making a small fairing to keep the engine warm. Just a piece of sheet metal bolted in front to block direct air movement. What do you think?

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by youzguyz on 12/19/07 at 07:39:25

Have you tried riding with the choke at the half-way indent? I normally have to do that on "cold" (for San Antonio) mornings for about 4 miles.

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by Savage_Greg on 12/19/07 at 07:48:42

6D7B616E73616D6E140 wrote:

Have you tried riding with the choke at the half-way indent? I normally have to do that on "cold" (for San Antonio) mornings for about 4 miles.

Never Heard Of...:P

That's the answer...

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by Christian Groth on 12/19/07 at 08:16:11

2B3D272835272B28520 wrote:

Have you tried riding with the choke at the half-way indent? I normally have to do that on "cold" (for San Antonio) mornings for about 4 miles.

I do leave the choke on for a while when it's cold, usually only for two miles. I'll try leaving it on longer.

Thanks.

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by Gary On A Savage on 12/19/07 at 09:42:49

I had the same problem this last Saturday. Rode to the Morro Bay on the coast and back (300 miles). Here in the Central Valley it was foggy and I had to have the choke pulled out or it would die at the stoplights/signs. Once I got over the coastal range and the sun came out, ran normal with no choke. But coming back into town, same problem. Had to pull the choke out again or it would die at the stops.

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by Paladin. on 12/19/07 at 09:45:06

4443405548534F270 wrote:

.... It acts as though it were running out of gas. Blipping the throttle a bit keeps it from dying....

Blipping the throttle gives you a burst of high vacuum.

On tour I occasionally ran into similar, the bike acting like it was nearly out of gas when I knew I had plenty. My thought was that I wasn't producing enough vacuum to keep the carb filled so I switched to PRIME -- and started running jes' fine.

FWIW, I rarely pull the choke out -- tho' I do have to manually keep the idle speed up at stops until fully warmed.

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by demin on 12/19/07 at 13:23:08

I would turn the idle up slightly.Just like old cars with carbs,had to tinker with'em when it got cold. :)

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by Savage_Greg on 12/19/07 at 14:06:38

44454D494E200 wrote:

I would turn the idle up slightly.Just like old cars with carbs,had to tinker with'em when it got cold. :)

So few people ever remember tinkering with carbs, and heaven forbid, manual chokes too :P

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by barry68v10 on 12/19/07 at 16:12:17

When I read the first post in this thread, my first thought was, "hmmm, that sounds like a leaky vacuum line." If your problem improves with the bike on PRI, look to the vacuum operated petc0ck and vacuum line...

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by Christian Groth on 12/20/07 at 06:50:30

313221212A656B256263530 wrote:

That may be it!
The vacuum line is zip tied at the petc0ck, but just pushed on at the carb. It's not loose, but also not difficult to just slide off. I may just replace the line and put clamps at both ends. It can't hurt, and may help.

Thanks again.

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by J Mac on 12/20/07 at 22:03:47

I was having full-throttle stalls (not comfortable when you're riding on an expressway). My petr0ck vacuum line looked OK, but when I took it off, I found tiny cracks. The bike was only 4 years old. I replaced it with some fat fuel line (all I could find with the right inner dia), clamped it with real hose clamps (hard to do on the lower side), and life is happy again.

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by sluggo on 12/20/07 at 23:05:10

7A71694F7D71737B100 wrote:

looks are deceving, if in doubt always replace the vaccum hose, just costs pennies to be sure it's right.

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by Christian Groth on 12/21/07 at 07:22:14

4B544D5F5F57380 wrote:

[quote author=7A71694F7D71737B100 link=1198078503/0#10 date=1198217027]I was having full-throttle stalls (not comfortable when you're riding on an expressway). My petr0ck vacuum line looked OK, but when I took it off, I found tiny cracks. The bike was only 4 years old. I replaced it with some fat fuel line (all I could find with the right inner dia), clamped it with real hose clamps (hard to do on the lower side), and life is happy again.

looks are deceving, if in doubt always replace the vaccum hose, just costs pennies to be sure it's right. [/quote]

Yup, I agree. I replaced the vacuum line last night and used real clamps. Now I just need to wait for another cold day to see if that helped.

Another question though, when I took off the vacuum line, I noticed that there was some fuel in the vacuum line at the carb. Not dripping out, but just moist. Is that normal, or is my petc0ck leaking?

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by verslagen1 on 12/21/07 at 07:54:14

7F787B6E7368741C0 wrote:

Another question though, when I took off the vacuum line, I noticed that there was some fuel in the vacuum line at the carb. Not dripping out, but just moist. Is that normal, or is my petc0ck leaking?

I don't think that's normal. You need to check it right away! :o

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by mornhm on 12/26/07 at 06:26:48

IMHO the key to having a MC that runs well in the winter is to make sure everything is "right." My savage ran fine in all temps unless something needed attention. Your Savage should run great at or well below 45°F. To date, my Vulcan and Concours also run fine (rode in this morning at 20°F). FWIW, it's not right to have fuel in your vacuum line. From the brief description, it sound like vacuum/petc0ck problems.

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by Christian Groth on 12/26/07 at 06:43:45

25273A262025480 wrote:

Thanks! I guess I'll be taking it apart later and probably convert to standard on/off/res.

And thank you, to everyone who posted.

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by barry68v10 on 12/29/07 at 18:02:22

Yep, when I started having similar problems, I converted my petc0ck and have not had any "lack of fuel" problems since...

Title: Followup: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by Christian Groth on 01/02/08 at 07:12:53

Well, it's done. I've got the petc0ck converted, and the bike runs much better. After I finished the conversion yesterday morning, I took a quick trip in the 42° weather. Not even one hiccup! It ran as well as it did in the 50's and 60's.

Now I'm only limited to how warm I can bundle up. I didn't ride this morning, which was 22°, as I didn't feel that I had warm enough clothes. I'll fix that this afternoon.

An interesting observation: this bike idles for a loooong time with the fuel cut off. During my initial test of the petc0ck conversion, I cranked up my bike and let it idle for a bit, then switched the valve to 'off' aka 'pri'. I was expecting to idle for a short time then die, but it kept running and running. At first I thought I messed up the valve and it was leaking, so I pulled off the fuel line; a little fuel ran out, and the bike kept running and running. It did finally die, but it lasts a long time on just the fuel in the bowl!

Thanks again to all who help me out!

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by KenGLong on 01/02/08 at 07:36:43

I forgot to turn on my petcorck once and I got a mile and a half down the road before it sputtered and died. It took a minute before I figured out what was going on.

Ken in Albuquerque

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by Christian Groth on 01/03/08 at 07:37:17

Verdict is in: I can ride in the cold.
I came to work this morning at 29°F. I was bundled up well enough that only my fingertips got cold. I only had a couple of problems that may be related or just an old bike problem. The worst was my own dumb fault.

I was riding along fine when it seemed like I was running out of gas, so I switched to reserve and the engine smoothed out. I stopped to get gas and only had to put in 1.4gal. Which was strange.

Then I couldn't crank up again; I had stupidly forgotten to turn the fuel off and the engine flooded, I think. I did finally get it started again after nearly draining the battery. And it did act like it was running out of gas again. Holding the throttle open kept it running, and letting the clutch slip kept the bike from lunging erratically. It smoothed out after 10-15 seconds.

Would these be symptoms of a sticky float?

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by bill67 on 01/03/08 at 07:59:18

Reserve shouldn't make it flood,maybe you had it on prime

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by demin on 01/04/08 at 06:46:16

Not necesarrily a sticky float,but when you do the conversion always make sure it is shut off.Just the pressure(weight)of the fuel on it will make it leak.It can leak in reserve with the petc0ck conversion.Prime would then be Off.

Title: Re: Intro & Question on cold weather riding
Post by T Mack 1 on 01/04/08 at 10:12:56

I've caught myselt trying to give it a little gas when hitting the starter. With the choke on, that's a NO-NO. Bike won't start and it's very easy to use up a cold battery.

Old hadits die hard.

T-Mack