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Message started by joeh100 on 12/05/07 at 18:27:28

Title: Smokes on StartUp
Post by joeh100 on 12/05/07 at 18:27:28

Hi, my bike smokes on startup for about a min. Is this normal? It's new, has about 700 miles.

It only does it when the engine is cold, and stops in less than a min. If it makes a difference, this is without being choked.

It doesn't smell like gas either, but I will check the petcock just to be sure.

Is it possible it is gas related even though the exhaust doesn't smell like gas while it is smoking?

Thanks,

Joe

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by smokin_blue on 12/05/07 at 18:38:46

I can't speak specifically to the savage but most engines will "smoke" at start up for a little bit. This is usually not actually smoke but water vapor (steam) due to an exhaust system that is not fully up to temp so you see the "white" of the cloud. it goes away as the engine and exhaust and come up to temp. The other item that causes true smoke at start up is when a valve guide seal leaks slightly allowing a small amount of oil into the combustion chamber and then burns at start up causing a true white or blue smoke. If a little of this real smoke happens only at start up I wouldn't be too alarmed. If it happens all the time or consistantly on deceleration (slaming the throttle shut kind of thing) then I would watch you oil level. Once it gets to the point you have to consistantly add oil on a regular basis you might want to look at replacing a valve seal or two.
This mode of leak was very apparent once while watching a Harley 883 road race. They would slam the thottles shut coming into the corners and create such an intake vacuum that it would suck oil past the valve seals and smoke like crazy. as soon as they got back on the gas and relieved the vacuum the smoking went away.

good luck

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by joeh100 on 12/05/07 at 18:53:08

It was 60 degs. I don't think it was water vapor, but I could be wrong. I'm thinking a valve guide seal.

I wouldn't think so, but could valve clearance adj. affect this?

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by feelinjunky on 12/05/07 at 18:53:22

In cold temperstures, the phenomenon you described is ALMOST ALWAYS true in any engine. Look at the exhaust on a car when it has been started up in cold temperatures and you will see what looks like smoke; wait a minute and it will go away. This is perfectly normal.

EDIT: nevermind, we posted at the same time...by the way in 60 degree weather, water vapor most likely will not form...you nay have a problem...

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by SavageDude on 12/05/07 at 23:45:08

White smoke = water vapor
Light blue smoke = oil vapor
Black smoke = overly-rich carburation

Oh yeah, I hope that you broke her in gently or you might have done some irreversible damage. :o

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by LANCER on 12/06/07 at 05:48:12

In order to get a really good ring seat during the "break in " period you should roll on the throttle and accelerate strongly for a few seconds and then let off to cruise normally, doing this occasionally as you ride. The higher pressures created during the harder acceleration forces the rings out against the cylinder wall and enables the rings to seat properly. If all of the riding during the breakin period is slow and easy then the rings will not seat as well.

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by joeh100 on 12/06/07 at 06:18:55

Well, the smoke looked white to me. But it was 60 degs. out. My car never smokes when it is that warm.

The bike is stored in an insulated building and even though it was 60 outside it felt cooler inside the building. Maybe that made a difference.

The smoke didn't really have any strong smell to it. Also It hadn't been started for 3 days if that makes a difference.

During breakin, I took it easy for about the first 100 miles, then I lugged it to seat the rings, even uphill a few times, but I didn't let it redline or anything.

I think/hope I'm just being paranoid because it's a new bike.

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by vtail on 12/06/07 at 08:40:48

Like Lancer said, You got to rev it in the lower gears 1 thru 4th. For example; Accelerate brisk in 4th to 75mph than back off. Do not get too low in the RPM like below 40mph in 4th. Since you got 700 miles on it I would just ride it aggressive for a while. No need to baby it anymore. Do NOT use synthetics during this break-in period (too slick).When we brake in aircraft engines (aircooled) we run them at 75-80% powersettings at lower altitude (more HP) till the oil consumption goes down noticeable and this can take up to 25 hours. My '07 now has 4300 miles and oil consumption it negligible. ;)

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by T-Mack1 on 12/06/07 at 09:06:43

Old timer taugh me this a while back.

Take a piece of glass (or a glass cup, or your eye glasses, or... , or...., or.....) and put it in the exhaust smoke.

The three forms of smoke that SavageDude gave will all leave something on the glass. The white will leave water condensate. Blue will leave a flim (greasy?) and black will leave soot.

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by joeh100 on 12/06/07 at 09:37:56

I tried it again this morning. It was prob about 45 degs. It didn't smoke nearly as much but still a little.

I did notice some water coming out of the exhaust, so maybe that was my problem. Maybe I need to run a dehumidifier in my building?

I will try the glass test tomorrow morning. I think that is a great tip.

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by viper on 12/06/07 at 11:09:02

A buy product of burning gas is water thats why on cars an trucks there is a small hole at the low point of muffler or resinator.Don't fix whats not broken.
Ride on.
Viper

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by joeh100 on 12/07/07 at 07:24:19

My brother has an identical bike, and I got him to start his up yesterday morning. No smoke at all.

I started mine and had smoke. Ok, I was really worried then, but I tried the "glass tip." It is definately water. No oil film at all, but lots of water.

I store my bike indoors and he stores his on a carport. Can that make the difference?

Anyway, I guess I was being paranoid, but now I am definately relieved.
Thanks for the tip T-Mack1, it worked great.

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by bill67 on 12/07/07 at 08:38:37

Yes keeping inside and going out in the cold and back where its warmer causes condensation.

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by T-Mack1 on 12/07/07 at 09:30:56

joeh100 wrote:

Thanks for the tip T-Mack1, it worked great.

Your welcome. 8)

I know my '01 has the water vapor at 50 deg's F. Never really thought about it other than thinking " gawd it's going to be a cold ride" when looking at it.

The bike gets stored in a insulated but unheated garage (unless you count the heat from engine blocks from a V-6 car & a L-5 pick-up).

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by Savage_Greg on 12/08/07 at 07:25:41

Has anyone ever noticed the water dripping from the tailpipe on a car in front of them. Usually happens on a cold day while the exhaust is still cold. That's condensation from the exhaust. Once the metal parts warm up the water vapor remains gaseous all the way out of the pipe, and the dripping stops.

BTW - another way to check the exhaust content is with your nose. Just cup your hand over the end of the pipe and sniff. You won't smell water, but gas and oil are pretty distinct.

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by J Mac on 12/09/07 at 07:46:18

Don't sniff too deeply though!

On that topic, I don't about water dripping, but now and then I get behind one of the landscaper/carpet installer vans/trucks likely "maintained" south of the "border" that you swear are dripping gasoline from the tailpipe. One wonders if their consumption is measured in gallons per mile. The odor is noxious. I'm not sure if it's caused by plugs never being changed or a carb/injectors out of whack. The state government has the nerve to make us get emission checks on our 3 year-old vehicles while somehow giving those guys a pass.

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by Savage_Greg on 12/09/07 at 08:20:19

J Mac wrote:

I said, "sniff" not "huff" ;D

Know what you mean about emissions checks. They don't even make sense. Just a way to tax us. After all, new cars are built to EPA standards or better, so what's with the testing? If the darn thing has an emission problem you're gonna have a check engine light anyway. In the mean time, the older cars are exempt, simply because they can't be retrofitted, and they will eventually die off to "vintage antique" status anyway. Sheesh.

...back to the topic, you can smell gas and oil if you just "sniff" the exhaust.

Warning: Don't put your mouth on the tailpipe! :P

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by joeh100 on 12/09/07 at 14:00:11

Quote:

Warning: Don't put your mouth on the tailpipe!

Well, I like my bike, but not that much. :-*

Title: Re: Smokes on StartUp
Post by Savage_Greg on 12/09/07 at 15:13:51

joeh100 wrote:

Well, I like my bike, but not that much. :-*

I said "sniff" not...

...nevermind :P