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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1196336874 Message started by skoeter on 11/29/07 at 03:47:54 |
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Title: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by skoeter on 11/29/07 at 03:47:54 Perhaps a topic on this already but I searcher the technics corner and tried the search.... all I got was Day too small - -711917 > -2485 I have an '86 savage and found a 5 gearbox on Ebay so what first crosses my mind is Great let's change the 4 gear for 5 gear!! Has this been done before and what to be aware of (would I run into more then changing gear parts...) Anyone that has experience in this... Thanx 8) |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage Post by German_Leo on 11/29/07 at 04:37:20 Hi skoeter, if you change the engine you must change your CDI because the 86 CDI dosn't work with the 96 (and upper) Generator (LIMA). The cylinder and the head can changed between the bilding years. So, if you can get the CDI (maybe incl. the complete wiring harness) you can start with the project. Good luck! Ciao Leo |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage Post by skoeter on 11/29/07 at 05:05:44 I do not want to change the entire engine, just the gearbox.... But great tip if ever I want to change engine ;) |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by T-Mack1 on 11/29/07 at 06:50:42 So, couple of things you need to investigate. First is whether the crankcase part numbers are the same for the 86 as the newer bikes with 5 spd's. If the crankcase halves are the same PN then it can be done. Second, you need to see what else is different. I would think all of the internal shifting componets are. See parts micorfisches at: www.ronayers.com see 1986 LS650 at: http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/frames.cfm?man=su&groupid=7060&parent=7050 Also many local shops have links too, here's my local shop. The link setup to ask you for the year then you need to find the LS650 : http://www.blackmanscycle.com/fiche_select.asp?vcc=Motorcycles&mfg=Suzuki |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by thumperclone on 11/29/07 at 07:07:25 4 speed and 5 have almost same final drive ratio,chain conversion for better top end.. |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by skoeter on 11/29/07 at 07:26:46 I got myself the crankcase where the gearbox originally was in so if I find it can not be done with what I have.... I have the original where the parts came out. I also got the shaft comp/gear shift just incase they're different too What also needs to be modified to 5 gear is the primary transmission..... Information thanx to Kropatchek by email :) Chain conversion?? .... to me all this is about having a 5 gear '86 savage without changing a complete engine... 8) Will a change of primary transmission make other things to be changed?? ::) |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by Savage_Greg on 11/29/07 at 08:09:39 Time for cheap plug :P IF you had The Savage Companion Photo CD, you would possess some photos that were submitted by Kropatchek. They show the inside crankcase halves for the 5 speed model. Noted on those photos are the fact that the shift drums between the 4-5 speed models are different. The 4 speed had 1 shift fork whereas the 5 speed has 2 shift forks. Those forks are supported (of course) by bosses that are cast into the crankcase halves... Therefore, the countershaft, drive shaft, shift drum, shift forks, shift mechanism, crankcase halves, primary drives AND alternator (German_Leo) are ALL different. Don't know about the oil pump drive :P The possibility that I imagine would be to see if the '86 alternator stator and pickup will fit the later model rotor and then just change over the top end with head, cylinder, and piston etc... BTW - anyone know if the cam drive and driven gears are the same? Need to check Ron Ayers maybe. |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by skoeter on 11/29/07 at 08:48:19 Thanx Savage_Greg, you mean the pic in this topic?? http://www.suzukisavage.nl/ForumsPro/viewtopic/t=75.html added by Kropatchek... In same topic also pics of the 'new' gear parts I have comming in. All parts are from 1 bike!! Now my technical english is as good as your dutch, a bit better even ;D ,can you specify again what you think I also need to change besides what already is shown in that topic..... Now most of the parts you mentioned are different (alternator = Dynamo dutch) does it need to be changed?? |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by verslagen1 on 11/29/07 at 10:33:06 I'd be interested in knowing if the 5th gear ratio can be improved by swapping out 5th with a reversed set of 3rd. Is it possible? http://shutter08.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/18/006/77/F9/6C/31/F1IlHXjvrjaD60zavD3UyCduimxNYyBs026C.jpg |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by skoeter on 11/29/07 at 10:56:53 Savage_Greg wrote:
Sometimes need to read a few time because of a language difference we have.... Think you mean to say that besides the primary drives (thanx, I named it primary transmission because the word drives failed me) the alternator will not fit in the end.... Besides 'The Savage Companion Photo CD' you also have a CD I heard on the dutch forum. What does it include?? The photo's by Kropatchek are around my corner, he lives 20-25 miles from here... As stated he suggested the primairy drives and crankcase issue... |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by Savage_Greg on 11/29/07 at 12:17:43 skoeter wrote:
Hey, you have my respect because you can read English and write on this forum. I'm not that good. The alternator is on the left side and the primary drive gears are on the right. The primary drive gears are different by 1 tooth on each gear from '86 to '96. You can get the transmission photos from Henk, but there is too much on my CD to really explain here. You should visit my web site for more info. |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by skoeter on 11/29/07 at 21:49:39 Savage_Greg wrote:
We can not escape from english.... Movie, TV, Radio... where ever one goes english is around.... Should frequently dig in microfishes for the technical side... and now you know Alternator is Dynamo in dutch. and Primary is primair Handy to know, even when you visit Belgium ;D Savage_Greg wrote:
I will............ guess I gotta hit Santa now |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by thumperclone on 11/29/07 at 22:31:23 [quote author=skoeter link=board=RubberSideDown;num=1196336874;start=0#11 date=11/29/07 at 21:49:39] when you visit Belgium beer is beer? |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by skoeter on 11/29/07 at 22:55:07 If you want to get yourself in trouble.... try and order 'beer' and a bear is what you get.... ordering 'bier' will be safer.... and tastier ;D |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by Dave48 on 11/30/07 at 03:45:13 Learning beer is bier is a small price to pay for the finest and best ALES in any language anywhere I have drunk the stuff! |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by Savage_Greg on 11/30/07 at 06:33:48 skoeter wrote:
I was just looking at the Suzuki Holland link in your signature line. Interesting. 2 things are different. All of the Boulevard are still named Intruder, and I do not see the Savage or S40. Hmmm... Suzuki Motoren (http://motoserestyle.waxtrapp.com/motoserestyle?waxtrapp=itwciDsHcPvMtIdBiB) |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by barry68v10 on 11/30/07 at 06:50:30 Skoeter, unless the 4-speed is trashed, I don't see that you really gain much of anything going to a 5-speed. If you're looking for better "highway" ratios, I'd suggest a chain conversion. I'm of the opinion that the 4-speed is the more durable design... Also, I wonder what the weight difference is between the two? :-/ |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by skoeter on 11/30/07 at 07:54:21 Savage_Greg wrote:
Thanx for mentioning Greg, the link is adjusted now.... did not mean to link to suzuki holland but to a dutch Savage site I recerntly set up..... barry68v10 wrote:
The goal is not to improved/gain, the challenge is to make it work... 8) Perhaps I misunderstood someone who was selling his '86 Savage. He said it was 5 gear and maybe he just replaced the complete engine and CDI... I never asked but definately want to find out if it can be done ;) This is how I picked up the idea: I saw a 5 gear '87 Savage on a dutch auction site, later I saw a complete 5 gear sys (axes forks etc) on Ebay germany.... I asked a friend if he could confirm if it was a 5 gear set and he explaine the 1 axe&2 forks and 2 axes&3 forks matter so I understood I needed the crankcase of the bike I have ordered the gear set from 2.... I was lucky and it's coming my way. Here come the headache part.... I phoned that guy who is selling his '87 5 gear and it turns out he simply bought the CDI and complete 'under engine' (all that's under the cylinder....) So it's to me to find out if I can make it all work with a little help.... |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by Savage_Greg on 11/30/07 at 08:50:45 skoeter wrote:
Ah, now I see your site. I may not speak Dutch, but I certainly can "read" photos. The left side of your page is really nice ;D I also notice some really ugly looking headcover sealer and a familiar looking bolt pattern on a box (in English) :P |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by T-Mack1 on 11/30/07 at 10:17:56 skoeter wrote:
So, if you have a running bike, there is a question that has to be asked. Is it better to spend your time & money (gelder/euro's??) doing this or would it be better spending your time riding and spend your money on Bier??? |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by skoeter on 11/30/07 at 10:29:55 The ugly headcover is shot in the condition the bike was bought, there was even 4 liters!! oil in the engine, no wonder it was leaking..... it got pushed through the gaskets under pressure LOL The owner now is trying to make a good Savage out of it again. There's an owners club here but it's close to death and so I started that site. Many left the club forum already because they where licensed to ride more horse powers or simply find more answers to their questions here or on the german site. But plenty of dutch who have a language prob on the technical side so I try to give the Savage a new dutch internet life. Also I think the Savage club is too much for owners and not enough for people with projects and who do own maintainance (most of them are here and the german site)... so trying to fill a gab Since I have my Savage for half a year now and only had small issues like other steering stem, thing that cover the rear brake drum (it simply broke in 2 part using the brake and made quite a mess!!), Laser exhaust new brake fluid I think it's about time to get to know the lady and see what I can do to her heart..... If it will turn out replacing about everything beyond the cylinder I will look for a 5 gear engine in time but if I get it to work....... ;D Meanwhile... this winter I will be taught lot's I need to know about the engine and more!! Noticed on your site you used to have a Yamaha XS750 3 cylinder... used to have one too :D |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by skoeter on 11/30/07 at 10:34:59 T-Mack1 wrote:
Good question!! The book knows all and I know nothing..... Sounds the same as spending my money on beer, not remember yesterday and just wonder why I feel misserable and can't concentrate riding :P |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by Savage_Greg on 11/30/07 at 12:11:28 T-Mack1 wrote:
Yeah, but if you check his site...it's pretty obvious that the bike isn't running. This is drinkin' and thinkin' time ;D |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by skoeter on 11/30/07 at 12:19:35 guess it gets pretty close to don't drink while riding and don't spend all on drinkking when you got to get the bike riding BUT have a drink while imagining what you want to be riding :D |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by youzguyz on 11/30/07 at 12:22:19 skoeter wrote:
??? I think I need a drink :P |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by Savage_Greg on 12/01/07 at 05:21:13 I'll drink to that ;D |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by skoeter on 12/01/07 at 05:56:56 here a song to drink to ;D (http://www.skoeter.com/uploads/downloads/05-Road.mp3) |
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Title: Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Post by Savage_Greg on 12/01/07 at 06:18:11 skoeter wrote:
Makes me want to bang my head ;D |
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