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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Squeel, screetch, chirp /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1195871757 Message started by Taz on 11/23/07 at 18:35:57 |
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Title: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by Taz on 11/23/07 at 18:35:57 I'm hearing what I believe to be the belt squeeling. It's something that just started. I've got about 7,000 miles on the S40. What's the possible reason for this new noise and the fix? Thanks, Taz |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by Reelthing on 11/23/07 at 18:59:55 They'll certainly do it if out of alignment or too tight - the little plunger tool seems to cause that. Might want to check the tension - should be able to twist the bottom about 90 deg - and adjust the belt where it generally stays in the center of pulley - the pulley floats some so it can't stay perfect centered - and will likely chirp a little when it gets wet. So folks put various dressing on the belts to quiten them down - like wax or powder - need to be really careful about that however or the stuff you put on it will pickup grit and cause wear to the aluminum rear pulley and the belt it self. |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by Hell, Billy on 11/23/07 at 19:13:25 Life is too short to avoid the inevitable application of WD40. You didn`t hear it from me. B |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by thumperclone on 11/23/07 at 20:50:23 temp just drop in your area??i use hd belt dressing on mine.. |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by Savage_Greg on 11/24/07 at 05:53:17 Just loosen the belt up a bit and use the "90 Twist Method" to set the belt tension (toss the OEM tensioner if you have it). That's all you gotta do. Good luck. |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by thumperclone on 11/24/07 at 07:17:51 Savage_Greg wrote:
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by Savage_Greg on 11/24/07 at 07:53:18 thumperclone wrote:
If it works, it works. Still gotta keep the belt clean like Reelthing said. |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by firsts40 on 11/25/07 at 06:55:39 I have just turned 8000 on my 06, and last week coming home from a 350 mile trip, it started the chirp and sqeal when going through the gears at low to mid RPMs. I rubbed a little candle wax on the outside of the belt, but haven't had a chance to test it yet. The belt was rubbing because I could see the "dust on the inside of the forward cover, and I could see signs of it rubbing on the side of the belt (could begin to see signs of the fabric inside the belt). It didn't appear to be resting on the "sprockets" though. The belt also seamed to be even all around the "sprocket". I tested it with the 90 degree test and it may be a little tight. I could twist it, but I think it took a little more effort than it should have. I am going to loosen it a bit when I get the chance and see what happens. Why would it chirp and squeal in cooler, damp weather? The ride I was on was in fog for the first 170 something miles and only in the 50's. ??? Is that belt lube from the HD dealers any good? ??? Ride Safe |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by thumperclone on 11/25/07 at 08:09:57 firsts40 wrote:
starting my second winter with that product,it dries non stickey and seems to last about a year per application.. i jack up the bike so the rear wheel will spin and douse the belt from left and right sides lil tube that comes with can helps,angle away from tire tread while spraying after belt is tighted and aligned properly |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by Savage_Greg on 11/25/07 at 08:24:20 We all tend to get stuck on the first thing that we try that works. Right? What IF you didn't have to jack up the bike, buy any belt dressing, and all that you had to do was to loosen the belt to a 90 degree twist? Chances are that it will still squeak in the rain anyway, but you gotta remember that a tight belt will heat up faster and wear out quicker even with belt dressings. Next time you take a good ride, check the temp of your belt. It's up to you. |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by thumperclone on 11/25/07 at 08:31:56 Savage_Greg wrote:
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by firsts40 on 11/25/07 at 10:02:08 Greg and Thumperclone, thanks for your info, will do both first chance I get. Between work and the bad weather we are about to get in a few hours, I can't ride anyways. Lil Suzi is nice and warm and snug as a bug in a rug in the garage for the next few days. Thanks again guys |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by Taz on 11/25/07 at 13:52:55 Thanks for all the responses. I'll be checking the belt tension and then probably use some king of belt dressing as suggested. |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by Savage_Greg on 11/25/07 at 14:05:00 thumperclone wrote:
Now that I have finished running out to the garage to make sure that I do not speak incorrectly, here goes. First let me quote the Suzuki Service Manual... On the last line of the first paragraph on page 2-12 it says: "Use the side stand for accurate adjustment". The SSM does say to raise the rear wheel to check for belt wear but for adjusting the belt the wheel is supposed to be down. So, if the "stealership" does it that way, then they do not even follow the manual. That's really inspiring and the reason I am a "handyman" :P However, just like using the gage is about useless, so is that whole approach, IMHO. Here's why. I know it seems right to raise the wheel, but as the rear wheel moves up the belt actually gets tighter. The reason is that the swingarm and pulleys do not follow the same upward arc. The pivot of their centerlines are offset. (Note: that is why older dirt bikes had to run a loose chain with all their wheel travel) Like the manual, I prefer to have it on the side stand because that puts some load on it. When you sit on it, it gets even tighter. Check it out. Adjust the belt to spec, leave the gage in there and have someone bounce slowly on the seat while you watch. You'll see the gage get tighter. Now just imagine going over a speed bump. Everyone can do it however they choose. I just know that this topic comes up all the time, and I hear the same solutions over and over. Why? Most likely because the "stealership" adjusted it the "last" time. (Note: the 90 degree method is an old industrial maintenance practice for checking belts) We had 2 non-squeaking Savages (before my chain conversion), and we do not use the gage or any dressing on the belt. IMO, if you use the gage and use a dressing, you have nothing more than an extra maintenance job. The Savage Companion Photo CD (http://www.the-motorcycle-handyman.net/index.php?pr=Savage_Companion) Click Above to Visit My Web Site or, Look below for your method for adjusting belt tension. http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/Belt_TwistMethod.jpg http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/Belt_TensionGauge.jpg It's up to you, now! |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by govmule84 on 11/25/07 at 16:10:39 Time for a chain conversion... |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by thumperclone on 11/25/07 at 18:50:17 Savage_Greg wrote:
this topic is heading along the lines of a what oil to use thread!! 8) |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by thumperclone on 11/25/07 at 19:08:33 govmule84 wrote:
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by thumperclone on 11/25/07 at 19:17:25 greg ..if the ls had a center stand also which stand would you use for belt adjs? lubing the belt once a year is less maint. than oil changes.. in my conveyor belt days we never used lube or the 90 deg method but torque was at alot lesser value... |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by vtail on 11/25/07 at 21:06:43 The belt is not as sensitive to temp fluctuations as you might think, Between 100 and 32 degrees it only changes a few thousands of an inch. Not anough to worry about. Miss-alignment causes most of the squeeks. Twisting the belt 90 degrees works just fine on the side stand ;D |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by Savage_Greg on 11/26/07 at 09:01:29 vtail wrote:
Like I said, people will choose to do whatever they want. Never mind what the manual says, experience has shown or even what can be proven. A belt dressing is just treating the symptom, not the cause. As for belt temps...friction equal heat, and the belt warms up in use anyway. I'm sure the manufacturers figure the operating temps of the bike and rider into the design of the belt... As for squeaking caused by misalignment of the pulley. I don't believe that either. The pulley is a rubber cushioned drive. It floats. Check that out too. Reach down and see if you can push/pull the pulley sideways against the wheel. It wiggles. Since it moves, just how is "static centering" of the belt gonna help under a torque load from the engine? It doesn't, and I simply use the marks on the swingarm to center the belt. Still, I gotta wonder why my fingers were numb from cold on our last ride, and my spouse's bike didn't squeak. It must have been too dry, too loose, and too crooked. I guess that I got lucky. KISS! |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by bill67 on 11/26/07 at 09:32:42 I think I will go along with how suzuki says to adjust the belt, they have been building motorcycles for a while now. i've had good luck with the dealers and their mechanics. |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by Savage_Greg on 11/26/07 at 11:06:39 Well, that's certainly a no brainer. If you don't have a problem, then don't do anything different. D_uuuh! |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by verslagen1 on 11/26/07 at 11:08:14 Is the best belt dressing synthetic or natural? |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by Savage_Greg on 11/26/07 at 11:09:37 verslagen1 wrote:
It is suitable for vegans as well as meat-eaters :P |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by vtail on 11/26/07 at 11:18:53 Savage_Greg wrote:
The drive hub is supported by a bearing (#09262-25073) which is pressed in the drive drum and has rotational play only in its rubber drive shock absorbers but should not have sideways play!(Wobble) If that's the case better replace that bearing. Also, I do not rely on those swingarm markings. Ty a 25ft sting tightly on to the ground and run the LEFT side of the frontwheel alongside and see where the wider rear tire runs. Now place the frontwheel on the RIGHT and run it along. Then look at the reartire again. The overlap should be the same. A lot of times you're gonna be in for a surprise that the overlap is NOT the same by relying on those markings. Mine sure was off. When the pulley is slightly mis-aligned it causes the belt to run against one of its shoulders and causes squeeks. If this pulley was always perfectly aligned it would not need shoulders like the cambelt drive on cars who for most have no shoulder (Guards). We need shoulders since we mis-aligne stuff. We human afterall and not perfect. ;) |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by bill67 on 11/26/07 at 11:33:14 A good straight 8 foot 2x4 works good for getting the rear wheel straight with the front. Thats the way I always did it when I changed tires. |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by Savage_Greg on 11/26/07 at 11:46:01 Especially when both tires are a different thickness. Oh yeah. I thought you said that you did things by the book. |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by bill67 on 11/26/07 at 11:51:40 Greg I'am not going to hold your hand to tell you how to do it. Anyway I think you must have two left hands. |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by Savage_Greg on 11/26/07 at 12:02:56 vtail wrote:
I know what you are saying, and I also have worked with machinery all my life. So speaking "bearings" is nothing new. I wasn't talking about radial play. What did I say above? ("Reach down and see if you can push/pull the pulley sideways against the wheel.") It is lateral play. Please note: Only one bearing is used on the pulley...It still moves because a couple thousands in bearing play translates into alot more movement at the pulley rim. The pulley is not pressed against the wheel. The bearing INNER race is fixed by axle spacers, but the OUTER race can still move. Did you try to wiggle your pulley yet? Like I said, you want to blame the squeak on pulley alignment? Go ahead and spend your time spinning the tire and watching the belt move. You guys are into self abuse :P No squeaks in my garage. |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by Savage_Greg on 11/26/07 at 12:04:56 bill67 wrote:
Spoken like a true mental giant :P |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by bill67 on 11/26/07 at 12:08:56 Thank you. The 06 have different width tires not thickness ::) With two left hands everything you touch go's to pot ;D |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by Savage_Greg on 11/26/07 at 12:51:51 bill67 wrote:
I know where some real thickness is... ...but putting that aside why don't you explain how you use your really straight 2 x 4 to align your tires? Don't leave out any details. Take a photo or two. We need the details that even a newbie or someone with "2 left hands" can understand. Are you up to it? Oh, and please tell us where to get your really straight wood. Maybe Vtail will let you borrow his string to demonstrate. |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by bill67 on 11/26/07 at 12:54:44 You take the 2x4 and hit the rear wheel till its straight ;D |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by Savage_Greg on 11/26/07 at 12:56:46 bill67 wrote:
I rest my case. |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by vtail on 11/26/07 at 13:13:40 Savage_Greg wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong since I have not had any reason to take it apart but from looking at the fiches it looks as though that bearing is pressed IN the drive drum that holds the rubber schock absorbers. If 2 or more toothed pulleys are perfectly on the same plane (Like the fixed plane-alignment on car cambelt pulleys and unlike V pulleys), shoulders are unnessesary. As far as wheel alignment I always double check with the string method. Keep smiling ;D |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by bill67 on 11/26/07 at 14:41:36 V what happened to your lazer. ;D |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by verslagen1 on 11/26/07 at 15:07:02 C'mon I wanna know... Is bee grease better than silicone? |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by vtail on 11/26/07 at 15:17:26 bill67 wrote:
Ohh, that would need another explanation and it would get unnessary complex. Oke here we go; Laser leveler is horizontally held about 2 inches above the ground aming forward against the left and then the right side of the rear tire. Measure the distance between the beam and front tire where it passes the front tire. It should measure the same on both sides of the front tire. If the rearwheel is really off the beam will hit the front-tire on the backside ;D |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by Reelthing on 11/26/07 at 15:20:11 Now you did it an oil thread wonder if we could feed Mobil1 to bees.... |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by thumperclone on 11/26/07 at 17:10:16 Reelthing wrote:
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by bill67 on 11/26/07 at 17:25:19 I know what a lazer level is and does, i was home builder all my life. I will stick with the 2x4 its much easier and faster and a better way to do it. |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by vtail on 11/26/07 at 21:22:23 bill67 wrote:
Different strokes for different folks. Isn't that nice :) |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by youzguyz on 11/27/07 at 13:42:34 So, just measuring from the middle of the swingarm bolt to the alignment marks isn't close enough? (to insure that your alignment marks are accurate). Or is the lazer / 2x4 / string method(s) better? (I'm still trying to figure out the string and 2x4 methods, and the logic behind them) |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by bill67 on 11/27/07 at 13:51:48 Put the 2x4 on rear wheel as high as you can get it. Have the front wheel straight.When its even dimentions on front wheel you are in line. You can pretty much see with your eye when its straight. |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by vtail on 11/28/07 at 10:30:09 bill67 wrote:
YEP, works like my string which I carry it in my toolbox including tire repairkit. Got 2X4's in your toolbox? ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by bill67 on 11/28/07 at 12:32:37 I went to the hardware store today,told them I needed a 25 foot straight string, they didn't know what I was talking about.they said what do you want it for , I said to replace a 2x4 .They said it want work. so I guess I'll keep using the 2x4 |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by vtail on 11/28/07 at 15:42:29 bill67 wrote:
Ha,ha,ha, The guys in the hardware store must have had a good laugh and thinking that "this guy is higher than a kite". Cause a kite is kept in by a string (rope). Take 25ft of that kite-rope, put something heavy (like a rock) on each end, pull it tight on the ground and you have a perfectly straight line to run your bike along ;) ;D |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by bill67 on 11/28/07 at 15:52:19 Tomorrow I'll find out about the kite ::) |
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Title: Re: Squeel, screetch, chirp Post by vtail on 11/28/07 at 16:10:45 bill67 wrote:
Don't go back to that store though. They see you coming and they'll go to the backroom for a loud laugh ;D ;D ;D |
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