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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> tpes of Oil /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1194802996 Message started by gonzo on 11/11/07 at 09:43:16 |
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Title: tpes of Oil Post by gonzo on 11/11/07 at 09:43:16 I was told by my Suzuki parts dealer that I need to use a motorcycle oil (i.e. suzuki) because it also lubes the transission and it has some special stuff in (magic bean powder) is this true? I like mobel 1 |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by Paladin on 11/11/07 at 10:13:37 Your Suzuki parts dealer SELLS motorcycle oil. The Owner's Manual sumply specifies the grade, which matches the Valvoline that Wendy has in the trunk of her Camaro. In my humble opinion, religiously changing oil and filter on a regular basis does far more toward protecting the engine. |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by barry68v10 on 11/11/07 at 13:28:12 I have personally never used non-JASO oil in my m/c, but some have reported that it caused clutch slipping. Actually, the dealer fed you a load of bull. non-JASO oil will lube transmission gears better than JASO oil will. The only question is whether the clutch can handle it. I use Amsoil 10-40 in mine. It is JASO rated, but also CI-4++ and SL... Note: JASO specifies wet-clutch compatability, CI-4++ is the best lubricating diesel oil rating, SL is the best gasoline engine rated oil. |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by vtail on 11/11/07 at 16:08:27 Been using Mobil 1 since 1976 in all my vehicles. My 900SS Ducati's (wet clutch) never complained even during four seasons of road racing. My '83 650 GL Interstate has liked it for 29000 miles now and my S(avage)40 seems to like it too for the last 2200 miles. I use 15W50 ext service which has no friction modifiers and has almost identical properties to Mobil V Twin for which they'll charge you more and is harder to find. Guess other synthetics will work fine too but they were not around when Mobil came out in 1976. (It's (almost) mandatory in Porsche,Ferrari, Mercedes, Corvette etc). My cars get the lighter weight 5W30 ;D |
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Title: Diesel marine oil? Post by Stimpy on 11/11/07 at 17:20:45 I've been doing a lot of sailing this summer with a friend and she SWEARS by diesel-marine 4-stroke oil. She uses it in her on-board volvo V6, in her gasoline car and Harley too (dynaglide). She bought a few 5 liter cans (15W-40 I think) a while back and still has some, I'm gonna try it next oil change ;D , all the claims sound wonderful and all but I'm a bit worried about the "special" marine additives messing the savage's transmission though. Currently using Mobil1 10W-50. Wikipedia.- In petrol engines, the top compression ring can expose the motor oil to temperatures of 320 °F / 160 °C . In diesel engines the top ring can expose the oil to temperatures over 600 °F / 315 °C. DIESEL MARINE 4 STROKE OIL PRODUCT DESCRIPTION Diesel marine oil is a modern blend of high performance synthetic base stocks, natural base stocks, and advanced additives. It provides outstanding performance and protection over extended drain intervals in light and heavy-duty engines. - Remains Stable at Temperature Extremes Oil does not change viscosity (thicken or thin) at temperature extremes like conventional motor Oil. - Resists Oxidation - Reduces Engine Wear - Extended Drain Intervals - Improves Cold Weather Performance Due to their wax content, conventional Oil thicken in cold temperatures and, on cold starts, may take minutes to lubricate internal engine parts. Synthetic Blend Diesel Motor Oil stays fluid at very low temperatures. It circulates rapidly to provide vital lubrication and prevent engine wear caused by lack of Oil flow. - Reduces Oil Consumption - Improves Fuel Economy and Reduces Emissions - Protects Against Rust and Corrosion Also found this interesting 4-Stroke ATV Synthetic Motor Oil SAE 0W-40 http://www.lubes-n-filters.com/synthetics/motor-oil/synthetic-four-stroke-0W-40.html ...any thoughts? |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by barry68v10 on 11/12/07 at 03:21:46 vtail wrote:
Amsoil came out in 1972... |
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Title: Re: Diesel marine oil? Post by barry68v10 on 11/12/07 at 03:24:38 Stimpy wrote:
The Amsoil 0-40 would work fine year round and might be prefered if you ride thru the winter. Considered switching to it myself. |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by skrapiron on 11/12/07 at 04:57:53 What your motorcycle dealer told you is mostly correct. There is a formulaic difference between automotive grade oils and motorcycle grade oils. Automotive grade oils have friction modifier packages blended into them that Motorcycle grade oils do not. These friciton modifiers can lead to clutch failure (due to slippage) after long term use. All automotive grade oils have a concentration of these modifiers, with more being found in lighter viscocities and less in the heavier viscosities. Diesel oil, like Motorcycle grade oil, does not contain any of the friction modifiers found in automotice oil. Instead, the manufacturers use phosphorus and other chemical detergents to improve the lubricity of the base oil as well as suspend particulants. Diesel oil has more zinc and phosphorus as well as other detergents when compared to motorcycle oil. Many people run diesel oil in their motorcycle with ver good results. What brand of oil you choose is up to you. Folks tend to have a favorite brand of oil much the same way they have a favorite brand of beer and a favorite college football team. (According to them) There are no substitutes. It's that way or the highway (sounds alot like church, doesn't it. No wonder I stopped going). When it comes to shopping for oil, remeber these pointers: All oil is only as good as the base oil used to manufacture it as well as the type and concentration of detergents selected. Additionally, the best oil is not always the most expensive. Now that you're thoroughly confused, I'll be quiet. ;D |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by Dr_Jim on 11/12/07 at 09:57:12 - |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by vtail on 11/12/07 at 10:57:58 barry68v10 wrote:
Yes they did and Mobil 1 came in 1974. I am usually not the 1st one to jump on the bandwagon and be a guinipig. Thats what attracted me to the Savage, well proven. I let them sort out their "baby" problems first. Mobil came out with an aviation synthetic a few years ago. Glad I stuck with my trusty Shell 50 in my almost new Continental aircraft engine because it turned out that synthetic could not keep lead (from the gas) in suspension and formed a grey sludge which ruined many an engine and caused Mobil to pull it of the market. So when Formula 1 (car) started embracing Mobil 1 with excellent results, I decided to try it in my 900SS in '76. Had excellent experience, so I have stuck with it (Don't fix it if it ain't broke). I am convinced that Amsoil synthetic is just as good. In my area it is more expensive though. ;) |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by barry68v10 on 11/12/07 at 11:20:12 Vtail, if you or anyone else is interested in getting discounts on Amsoil, send me a PM and I'll give you details...I wouldn't be in this to make any $, just cover my dealership fees. |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by vtail on 11/12/07 at 11:25:46 Appreciate your offer, but I'm with a high-end autodealership and I get my Mobil right here, otherwise I'd take you up on it cause these (synthetic) oils are way superior:) |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by SteveRocket on 11/12/07 at 20:03:29 In my very limited experience this is the way it went for me. When I got the bike from a dealer I have no Idea what was in it but no clutch slip. I changed the oil and filter a few times over the next say 8,000 miles I used Rotela T car oil or Chevron 15-40 oil. During those times I noticed the clutch would slip from time to time when I opened it up a bit. So much so I ordered heavy duty clutch springs. Last oil change I used Valvoline MotorCycle oil. Which is about the same price as car oil from Autozone. Tonight I deliberately tried to make the clutch slip, it wouldn't slip at all. Now it took about 2000 miles on the MC oil to stop it slipping. I will try to make it slip a bit more aggressively tomorrow, but there is marked improvement by changing oil for me I know this probably makes it even more confusing but I would say go with a MC oil or experiment with a diesel oil but the common car oils seem to be no longer suitable for a wet clutch. Just my 2d's worth Steve |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/12/07 at 20:23:26 Shell Rotella 15-40 costs about 9 bucks a gallon, works juuuust fine. |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by SteveRocket on 11/12/07 at 21:50:51 Thats the one I was using, maybe it's the age of my bike it's an '87. Maybe my clutch springs are just a little weaker than they should be. Who knows but I am going to see if I can make it slip tomorrow and I'll post my finding. I may have spoke too soon, about it not slipping. Steve |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by SteveRocket on 11/13/07 at 12:41:04 I stand corrected , the clutch still slips so It was not the oil, must be the springs (I hope) |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by vtail on 11/13/07 at 12:55:25 Just make sure the oil does NOT have the dreaded "Energy Conserving" on the round label. That tells you that there are friction modifiers in that oil. ;) |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by SteveRocket on 11/13/07 at 12:57:03 No I am using motorcycle oil |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by verslagen1 on 11/13/07 at 13:38:50 I'm using the Rotella 15w-40 dino oil. I was having a problem with clutch slip, but 20 year old springs may have been the issue. Replaced with Heavy Duty Barnett's, no problem now. I think I was having the slippage before switching to Rotella. Stay away from the 5w and 0w's in dino, they most definitely have the friction mod's. don't know about the syn's gonna try later on. |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by JakeB on 11/15/07 at 12:55:13 SteveRocket, When I put Valvoline 10W-40 cager oil in my '87 the clutch began to slip, replaced clutch springs with Ferodo springs and it still slipped. Switched to Valvoline Synpower 20W-50 full synthetic and no more slippage. ;D JakeB |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by joeh100 on 11/17/07 at 08:29:33 What Oil should I use DURING BREAK IN? What viscosity do U recommend? I live in Alabama and probably won't be riding in cold weather but it is getting colder here. I don't expect temp's to get over 80 during breakin, but I may ride when temps are as low as 40. |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by Mr 650 on 11/17/07 at 12:34:20 I agree w/ the above, most agree that a dinosaur oil must be for break-in, so the rings seat and before switching to synth. remember that cars are water cooled w/ thermostatic temp maintenance The savage is air cooled and subject to wider temp diffs. Rocket man, sounds like it's may be time to pull the cover this winter and get a look at your 87's clutch discs. They may be worn out now. Seems like I cross-refed the Savage to a GS750, for springs once too. SteveRocket wrote:
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by Tim_Krantz on 11/23/07 at 17:29:11 A lot of motorcyclists are using the diesal specific oils with good results. One thread said motorcycles with cat converters shouldn't use it. |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by vtail on 11/23/07 at 17:43:28 joeh100 wrote:
Just use the 10W40 that came in it. Changed mine at 400, 1200 and went to synth at 2000. Oil consumption; Zilch between oil changes. :) |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by geo on 01/18/08 at 22:34:02 Use Amsoil 10w-40 motorcycle oil to extend the life of the engine. Go to their website and find out. |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by barry68v10 on 01/19/08 at 06:59:33 I've always used dyno for break-in then switched to synth after a few quick changes. However, Boyd Coddington advocates using Amsoil Synth for break-in but doesn't state why. I'm going to research that more... On a similar topic, a guy named Marc Hailbeck runs a shop near Chicago for ZR-1's with LT5 engines. Apparently he's THE LT5 guru... He was talking about needing EP additives for flat-tappets, which is an API SG spec, but deleted for newer API specs. Not sure the config of our Savage...anyone know? |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by KwakNut on 01/19/08 at 08:55:24 3B382B2B206F612F6869590 wrote:
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by geo on 01/19/08 at 16:13:24 Don't use Amsoil for break-in! Use the dinosaur oil for the first 40 hours or 1500 miles, then switch to Amsoil. Amsoil greatly reduces friction and will not let the rings seat properly. Amsoil greatly reduces friction and wear and the heat created by friction. Go to their website where they give you the testing results. 8-) |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by barry68v10 on 01/20/08 at 10:58:12 4B49432C0 wrote:
Ok, I've had some time to research now, here's what I found... In a new engine, there are microscopic "burrs" and ridges on machined surfaces. Low quality oil causes these burrs to shear off. This creates the affect of faster "wear in." The two bad things that happen as a result are: 1) The tiny metal flakes flow in the oil stream until caught by the oil filter or oil change depending on size. This creates scarring of other surfaces. 2) Hardness and density of machined surfaces is decreased in the long run. Using a very high quality oil for break in has a few effects as well: 1) Break-in takes longer 2) Burrs are folded into the machined surface or compressed with less "shear-off" 3) Final density and hardness are higher in machined surfaces Conclusion? Contrary to conventional wisdom and my own practice...using the highest quality oil available for break-in makes good sense. |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by barry68v10 on 01/20/08 at 10:59:59 Guess all I have to do now is buy a new cycle and put this theory to the test! ;D |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by YonuhAdisi on 01/20/08 at 11:01:25 Or rebuild your engine starting with a completely empty crankcase. ;) ;) |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by barry68v10 on 01/20/08 at 11:11:47 65535249547D58554F553C0 wrote:
That thought has merit! Where was that oversized piston thread again? :D |
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Title: Re: tpes of Oil Post by T Mack 1 on 01/20/08 at 11:44:25 454655555E111F511617270 wrote:
That thought has merit! Where was that oversized piston thread again? :D[/quote] I think it may have been my posts. I used the old school Dino oil frist (Castrol 10W-40 MC oil), for first 500 miles, then when to Mobil 1 , V-twin. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1185890273/15 |
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