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Message started by ErminM on 10/30/07 at 20:16:58

Title: Mufler discoloration
Post by ErminM on 10/30/07 at 20:16:58

Hello all!

I noticed that muffler just behind second heat shield
is changing color, It is black to dark blue.
I am not sure if that is normal, header pipe is golden
and if blue is heat I would expect to have less
heat down the pipe. Bike is 07 with 5k km on it.
I do ride it hard and I do not mind blue as long
as I know it is not a problem.
Bike is stock as any 'tampering' with ignition or muffler
would void my 3 year warranty.

Here is pic of the discoloration.

http://w3.bikepics.com/pics/2007%5C10%5C30%5Cbikepics-1072444-full.jpg

And header or reference

http://w3.bikepics.com/pics/2007%5C10%5C30%5Cbikepics-1072445-full.jpg

Pics are bad, taken with phone in bad light.
If necessary I can get better ones...
I always hear about header color and
never about the rest, and most pics that I saw do
not show it... so I hope it is valid question :)

Thanks!

Ermin

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by constrapolator on 10/31/07 at 00:45:59

I remember when I got my brand new S40...

I was shocked to find my pipes in the same condition as yours. I think it was around 1k miles or so. But, I took it into the shop religiously -- and the mechanics seemed to think it OK.

But then again, I mentioned the incessant backfiring. They seemed to think that was all fine and dandy as well.

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by forrest on 10/31/07 at 02:20:54

Before starting a new thread try doing a search, see the icon above, on this and you'll get your answers.

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by mornhm on 10/31/07 at 05:19:52

Bah, go ahead and start a new thread - especially if you have pictures. And then do the search remembering to set the age of threads to a long time (several years).

Your discoloration looks about normal. Actually for a MC thats being ridden hard it looks pretty good imho. FWIW, the heat shield would reflect the radiating heat back into the muffler (away from you).

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by ErminM on 10/31/07 at 08:36:49

Thanks guys!

I did plenty of search and they all lead to header color.

Cheers!

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by vtail on 10/31/07 at 09:51:21

http://w3.bikepics.com/pics/2007/10/31/bikepics-1072982-800.jpg The discoloration comes from a too lean a condition (EPA requirements) which creates a little too much heat. As you can see no discoloration at all on mine after 4000 miles. And I ride fairly aggressive ( that's the ex-roadracer in me). Within 500 miles after I got this bike new last June, I replaces the 147 main with a 152.5 and raised the needle .0048 (halve spacer). Exhaust stays cooler by several hundred degrees (measured with infrared temperature sensor). I also dropped in the K&N filter. The bike run better, less popping and that was with stock exhaust. I now have a MAC exhaust and it run even better. ;)

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by gary_ona_savage on 10/31/07 at 10:08:59

vtail wrote:

GOSH! I wish mine would look like that!

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by Savage_Rob on 10/31/07 at 11:55:27

Mine never seems to discolor at all.

http://rob.savageriders.com/images/Nadine%202007-10-13%20005.jpg

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by noshow on 10/31/07 at 12:09:22

"Mine never seems to discolor at all."

That made me laugh

;D ;D

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by SavageDude on 10/31/07 at 12:47:33

Savage_Rob wrote:

Mine never seems to discolor at all.

http://rob.savageriders.com/images/Nadine%202007-10-13%20005.jpg

Yes, it did "BLACK" ;D ;D

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by Bear_Rider on 10/31/07 at 16:51:38

Rob,

What did you use to blacken your pipes?
(The ones on your motorcycle. ;D)

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by ErminM on 10/31/07 at 23:25:20

I would love to play with all that but I am
sure they will void my warranty on any sign of the problem.
I just have to sit tight for next 2 years ;) heheheh

vtail wrote:

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by Dynobob on 11/01/07 at 04:41:45

Savages run too lean due to the factory jetting. I'd try to get the pipes replace under warranty ::)

Here's an old and very good article about the lean running. The overly lean condition caused your pipes to color.

Quote:

Savage Backfire
(from January 1997 RIDER magazine's Tech Q&A)

Q) I purchased a new Suzuki Savage 650 last July. From the very beginning the motorcycle would backfire when decelerating or coming to a stop. I took it back to the dealer twice before the 600-mile service, and complained about it at the initial service. I have tried different grades of gasoline and they seem to have no effect. The dealer has told me that I should expect backfiring with the design of this engine and that it should decrease as I build up mileage. I have 900 miles on the bike now and backfiring doesn't seem to be decreasing. I have found other riders of Suzuki Savages that are having the same problem. - Jay Coney, Kerrville, Texas.

A) This column receives a lot of mail over the course of a month, and the single biggest gripe among our readers are problems with lean-running. late-model carbureted bikes.

The poor old LS 650 really suffers at the hands of the EPA, and I certainly sympathize with you, Coney. We can fix it, but first let me explain the hows and whys.

When the throttle of any engine is rolled or snapped shut, some fuel is drawn through the engine and kicked out the exhaust without being burned. In abundance, this raw fuel vapor can be smelled, tasted - and when light is passed through it- seen. It's referred to as photo-hydrocarbons or more commonly smog. Yes, there are several other pollutants coming out of the exhaust, but the human senses can't detect them. The manufacturer of motorcycles have three methods of dealing with excessive hydrocarbons. Forcing air down into the exhaust port with an air pump and diluting the outgoing fuel vapor is one method. Kawasaki pioneered this method with their 'Clean Air System', which employed a vacuum-driven pump that puffed air through reed valves placed over the exhaust system. A 'cat' is nothing more than an oven which bakes the hydrocarbons, burning them off.

The most common method is to simply lean out the carburetor. The low-speed and midrange circuits of the late-model carburetor are not adjusted to give optimum performance - they're set up to produce a minimum hydrocarbon count on deceleration. What miserly amount of fuel they do deliver to the combustion chamber when the throttle is closed causes misfire and an audible afterfire in the exhaust pipe.

Now, I haven't mentioned fuel injection or other exhaust gases. As I said, the bulk of complaints from readers of this column is deceleration backfire and also poor idling of carbureted engines. No doubt we'll get around to discussing other emission-control devices and their problems in future issues.

Getting back to your Savage 650, Coney, here's how we can specifically cure its problem. We need to richen those two areas of the curburetion curve that are factory set on the ridiculous side of leanness. Remove the diaphragm slide from the carburetor and look down inside its bore. Two small screws hold a plate over the slide needle. Removing the plate, you'll see a small, white plastic spacer with a hole through it sitting on top of the needle. Throw that spacer away and reinstall the plate. A spring under the needle clip will now push the needle up to the plate occupying the space vacated by the white spacer. The distance that the needle has been 'lifted' is the thickness of the discarded spacer - and that's ideal. With the needle raised, more fuel will flow by it, meeting the actual needs of midrange running.

We can also fatten up the low end of your bike's carburetor by turning out the low-speed mixture screw. To gain access to this screw, you'll need to drill out the brass plug pressed in over it and yank it out with a sheet-metal screw attached to a slide hammer. You'll find that plug up high on the right side of the carb about where the mouth enters the carburetor. Usually Suzuki applies a splash of white paint over the brass plug so that it's immediately noticeable. With the engine warmed up and idling, turn the mixture screw out incrementally until you achieve the highest idle. There will be no doubt in your mind that you're making progress because the idle will come up and sound stronger. At this point, turn the idle adjuster knob out and bring the idle back down to a leisurely gait.

Just these two, relatively simple adjustments will not only eliminate the backfire, they will make an amazing improvement in throttle response and driveability.

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by gary_ona_savage on 11/01/07 at 09:25:36

So, for all you carb experts, which is better? Shave the spacer down or remove completely? Does the removal richen the mixture too much?

Title: obobRe: Mufler discoloration
Post by vtail on 11/01/07 at 09:46:52

Yep, totally agree with Dynobob's article. As a matter of fact, I've been thinking for a while about removing the 1/2 left-over spacer all together since I still get a pop once in a while. I'll think I'll do that tonight and I'll report on that later. ;D Warranty? I got warranty? I'd rather enjoy my ride than be miserable during the warranty period riding a choked up bike and worrying about warranty issues on this basically bulletproof motor. ;D

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by Dr_Jim on 11/01/07 at 10:27:28

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by gary_ona_savage on 11/01/07 at 11:36:28

Jim, what about with non-stock exhausts? I have a HD SE turnout pipe. I guess we could try and check if it's running rich.

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by vtail on 11/01/07 at 11:44:53

The origional spacer is only 0.1 " (2.54mm) thick. Since mine runs great with 1/2 a spacer but still pops every now and then, I'll remove the whole thing and see how it runs. Better off a little on the rich side than too lean. I can always undo it. ;D

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by Dynobob on 11/01/07 at 12:33:19

I think the consensus on this board is that removing the white spacer will give you an overly rich midrange. I think with a free flowing muffler (Supertrapp, Raask, Jardine, and Mac, Screaming Eagle) , 1/2 spacer is perfect. If stock or running a not so free flowing muffler (stock Harley), maybe removing 1/3 of the spacer (run one that is 2/3s the thickness of stock). Going up one size on your pilot jet will also alleviate some of the popping.

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by barry68v10 on 11/01/07 at 13:56:32

Dynobob wrote:

I completely agree! ;D I have stock exhaust, intake, and jetting and removed my white spacer for lean running surge, especially at cooler temps, and it runs great now with no complaints. (Except my mpg has dropped from high 60's to mid-50s)

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by constrapolator on 11/01/07 at 18:21:16

Whoa! SavageDude, how'd you manage to paint your exhaust black without the paint peeling?

I used some high-temp 1400F paint, and it still chipped off or bubbled!

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by SavageDude on 11/01/07 at 21:10:22

constrapolator wrote:

Whoa! SavageDude, how'd you manage to paint your exhaust black without the paint peeling?

I used some high-temp 1400F paint, and it still chipped off or bubbled!

Dude, I did not paint mine at all! Ask Savage_Rob, he's the expert on that topic :)

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by constrapolator on 11/01/07 at 22:34:28

Er, oh -- whoops..

Got confused for a second, excuse me.

Found it -- Ceramic Coating -- nice...

::ponders about ceramic coated pistons...::

Title: Re: Mufler discoloration
Post by vtail on 11/03/07 at 12:19:09

Took the spacer out all together,(152.5 main,Mac exhaust, factory windscreen) This was on the flat, sitting upright, temperature 49 degrees. 6460rpm on ENM tach. Man this thing screames, pulls like a freighttrain till 90 indicated (on speedo) Popping is now rare and gone altogether between shifts. (used to pop all the time). Exhaust runs so clean, that when i put my fingers in, they stay clean. Never ran this strong and I think it'll pull past redline if I tucked in. The indicated speed on speedo was 98 (so slightly optomistic) Love it! With lower gearing (chain) I am sure it'll do or go past the Ton on the Sigma! http://w3.bikepics.com/pics/2007/11/03/bikepics-1076610-800.jpg