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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Is it still a Savage if..... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1192530711 Message started by smokin_blue on 10/16/07 at 03:31:51 |
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Title: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by smokin_blue on 10/16/07 at 03:31:51 ...I change the front fender, head light, the front caliper, and brake disc, front wheel, the forks, the triple trees, the handlebars, the switches, levers and masters, the speedo, mirrors, tank and the seat, the rear frender, the rear wheel, the belt drive, the shocks, the tail light, the carb and air filter, muffler and the exhaust pipe, Oh, and the frame and swingarm. I guess I will keep the engine.......is it still a Savage? ;) Well after a year of catching up on other projects around the place I am finally starting my Savage project named Cafe ala Carte. The goal is a very clean, minimalistic Cafe single. I am going to try to come in under 300 lbs and I think I can do it after dismantling the Savage. There is some heavy parts on that bike! :o Here are some pictures of where I am so far. I can tell with my limited time (two busy kids) it will be a slow process. Here is the frame I am going to use. http://www.street-unique.com/CafealaCarte/Photos/FRAME.JPG It is a 1968 Wards Riverside Mojave frame. It was made by Benelli in Italy and a knock off of a Rickman racing frame. It is large tube (1-1/4") with a super brace design in the steering stem area. Take a look at the swing arm though, the back end of it is really flimsy looking. I will be changing that out for a GS450 swing arm modified to fit the frame. Here is my frame jig I built out of an old photographic enlarger frame. Because it was a photographic enlarger it is very heavy duty and accruate. So far it looks like it should work well. http://www.street-unique.com/CafealaCarte/Photos/JIGFRAME.JPG Here is a picture of the engine sitting in the frame. http://www.street-unique.com/CafealaCarte/Photos/FRAMEENGINE.JPG It fits well as the frame was originally designed by Benelli for a 650 twin that they never built. They were imported into the US with tiny 260 and 360cc singles in them. People have stuffed many Triumph engines in them so they are quite spacious. The biggest issue is I have to offset the engine 1/2-3/4" to the right for the chain drive conversion to clear the frame. Here is the Tank (new old stock Mojave) and a seat pan I found that I really love. http://www.street-unique.com/CafealaCarte/Photos/FRAMETANK.JPG As far as the Menu at Cafe ala Carte, it looks something like this. Engine - 1997 Suzuki 650 Savage Frame - 1968 Wards Riverside Mojave Swing arm - 1981 GS450 modified to fit Rims - High Shouldered Aluminum spoked 1974 XS650 Hubs - Suzuki GT250 hubs laced with SS spokes Forks - 1992 GS500 with Race Tech valving and springs Bars - clubmans Brake Disc - 1998 Ducati 996 (320mm of stoping power ;D Brake caliper - GS500 twin pinston Nissan (my 4 piston won't clear :'( Headlight - 1964 Honda CL72 with built in speedo bezel Speedo - Trail tech/Vapor digital speedo and tach Exhuast - All Stainless steel custom with pea-shooter muffler Shocks - TBD Tail - aftermarket seat/tail Tail lights - SV 650 LEDs cut,split and frenched in to tail piece. Eventually for dessert it is planned to have a Lancer carb and cam added for a sweet topping. Ok...so I have a little work before the cafe opens but hey. Isn't that the excitement of starting a new project?? :) |
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Title: Re: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by LANCER on 10/16/07 at 05:10:31 Looks like we ended up in similar boats, although I am using the Savage frame and swingarm, but changing everything else as well. **Where did you find that beautiful tank? I love it. If I had the $$ I would have purchased a polished aluminum 5 gal tank but they go for $500-600 ??? oh well. I am having some trouble making the caliper/disc setup mount properly on the sporty wheels I have, but will persevere until it gives in. Keep us posted of your progress and keep the pictures coming. |
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Title: Re: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by Savage_Greg on 10/16/07 at 08:03:59 I think the motor keeps it a Savage. Very cool 8) |
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Title: Re: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by vtail on 10/16/07 at 08:49:07 Had one of those 360 Monky Wards, bought it new after 250 MW also build by Benelli. They were Orange with silver frame. That's gonna look Cool :D |
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Title: Re: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by Rockin_John on 10/16/07 at 14:14:13 Beautiful work in progress! This is approaching real motorcycle "building" instead of just bolt-together kit building as practiced nowadays by so many so-called "custom builders." I admire and covet your frame jig, or something similar. In past posts, I've mentioned more than once that a whole stable of purpose built Savages could be constructed for less than the cost of one decent Harley. And I still not so secretly hold the hope that I may accomplish exactly that over the period of a few years. Though it isn't "wild" I've got my 99 as the basic pseudo "chopper" and plan to make the 87 into a fat little "road dog" semi-bagger with Indian styling and soft (leather) bags. My list includes a cafe' bike, but I don't know for sure at what priority. Probably not #3, as I think #3 will be a dual-sport/scrambler. The cafe version would probably come in at #4. My reasoning for the trail bike before another street only bike, is that I need the exercize from trail riding. Now that I've taken a 300+ mile journey in a couple of days on the 99 chopper, and it has proved itself completely capable of serving as a long haul bike; it becomes more realistic in my mind, that the Savage can be built into about any type of bike. Of course, it isn't a realistic expectation to win any kind of serious racing, or high level show awards; because, well, a Savage is what it is to begin with. And regardless of some opinions, I do have the common sense to know not to try and make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Unfortunately I've not kept records of every expenditure to this point, but none the less, I still think that 4 really nice custom Savages could be built for much less than the cost of just one Harley build; even if you built the Harley from a hard tail "econo-kit." And personally, as a loner-rider, I was always much more concerned about the utility of my ride; rather than what other people though of my ride. And I believe thinking like this is what makes the few of us Savage, Triumph, BMW, Norton, Ducati, Yamasaki etc... riders; instead of one of the throngs of "individualists" who ride a Harley. Anyways: Smokin_Blue, I like how your build os shaping up, and the way you have shared the details and tech documentation/history. Keep up the excellent work on it; and I'll be greatly disappointed if we don't see future progress reports on it! BTW, one question/suggestion... Are you using Omar's as a source on any of your stuff? I figure you already know about them; but just in case you don't: http://www.omarsdtr.com/cafe.html |
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Title: Re: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by smokin_blue on 10/16/07 at 16:17:48 Lancer, The tank is a stock 360 Mojave tank. New old stock cost me $56 on an ebay auction from Cosmo. That would be cosmopolitan motors. They were the importer of the Wards bikes and bought out all their inventory when they chose not to sell them anymore. Cosmo has hundreds of those tanks in stock. Rockin John....as far as the frame jig....you can look all you want but I won't share ;D Actually I am just getting this jig going and I am afraid by the time I get done I will think my next project should have a custom frame built from the ground up. Actually I would love to build a custom frame but I have the feeling it won't be quite as smooth a process as I picture it will be. Yes I am aware of Omar. He is in town here but I haven't bought anything from him. Rock on all! I will post updates as I go. |
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Title: Re: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by splash07 on 10/16/07 at 18:23:12 Savage frame + savage engine = Savage |
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Title: Re: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by metri on 10/16/07 at 19:01:23 Well, the VIN is with the frame, so.... no frame, no savage. But it's super cool. |
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Title: Re: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by LANCER on 10/16/07 at 19:09:36 The tanks are now priced at $250. They are beautiful though. |
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Title: Re: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by cFLOW on 10/16/07 at 19:24:09 That is going to be beautiful man Keep us posted on the progress. I have always wondered if someone would try a cafe from the savage engine. Quite a bit of potential. |
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Title: Re: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by smokin_blue on 10/17/07 at 03:07:44 LANCER wrote:
That is his buy it now for a spotless tank. If you call him he has prices that vary from $250 for perfect on down to about $45 for a small dent. I bought mine as an auction for one that had one badge slide out of place after 40 years of sitting. The auctions for those typically start at $9.99. If anyone is interested just watch continously for Cosmo auctions. He lists the tanks now under at title of "Benelli Ducati Honda 350 Vintage Racer Cafe Tank NOS" They really vary in price. |
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Title: Re: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by Rockin_John on 10/18/07 at 04:54:49 cFLOW wrote:
Sometimes I think there is nothing in the world that someone else hasn't done first: http://catoosatrading.com/images/cycles/savage_pics/savage_cafe.jpg I have pictures of at least one other cafe' savage. |
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Title: Re: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by lostmcgoon on 10/24/07 at 12:55:51 if you keep the VIN then it would still be a savage, since you have a kick a$$ jig there I would cut the neck off the savage frame and transpant it to the frame you have there, Keep the VIN and Keep it a savage, also saves the hassel of "special Construction" title |
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Title: Re: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by smokin_blue on 10/26/07 at 04:08:42 Yes, that would save the hassle on the title. My two issues with attempting that is that the bike the engine came out of was an insurance wreck so the frame number is not much good. The other is it would be a challenge to weld in. If you take a close look at the frame pictures the beauty of the Rickman design (that Benelli copied) is the way they triangulated the head. Take a look, the horizontal rails come around the down tubes and the down tubes attach to the stem tube higher than most. To finish the welded the horizontal rails to the down tubes where they wrap around so it is a very nicely braced head but a bear to cut apart and re-weld. With how well this jig is working out I am getting the itch to build my own frame from the ground up on the next project. |
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Title: Re: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by Bikemom28 on 10/26/07 at 06:42:02 Bike is looking great! I love the color 8) I'd say it still be a savage. |
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Title: Re: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by lostmcgoon on 10/26/07 at 07:30:33 Yea, I was looking at that neck bracing, it could be done but will be a pain. of course I would hate to see you build a nice ride and have title trouble, even a rebuilt salvage title ame be easier to get than a special construction. one of my rides is a rebuilt salvage and the only extra step was I had to get it inspected before they would title. and the title has a note that it is rebuilt salvage. I built it to ride not sell, so the note doesnt bother me. Of course that is all in Texas. so I dont know the rules in your state. either way you go I will make the suggestion to keep reciepts for EVERY PART you buy. I know alot of people that have had recieptless ebay buys bit them in the butt when it came time to title. at minimum keep a paypal reciept or something on the ebay buys. |
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Title: Re: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by lostmcgoon on 10/26/07 at 07:31:52 AND.... if you dont use the neck either save it for the custom frame, or put it and the title in the mail to me I would defiantely use it ;D |
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Title: Re: Is it still a Savage if..... Post by gary_ona_savage on 10/26/07 at 13:22:36 smokin_blue wrote:
How about starting with the salvaged Savage frame and extending it 2-4 inches. Give more leg room and space for a larger tank. That with the chain conversion would make the savage a pretty perfect bike (IMHO). |
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