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Message started by CapMorgan on 10/15/07 at 20:46:00

Title: Carb spewing fuel
Post by CapMorgan on 10/15/07 at 20:46:00

The wife's '99 has started spewing fuel out of one of the carb vent hoses. If sitting on the bike, looking down to the left side, the vent hose coming up from the left side of the carb (throttle cable side) will spew fuel. It does it mostly at idle. From my older car carb experience, I suspected a dirty/damaged bowl float needle/valve assembly, allowing excess fuel to fill up the bowl and overflow out the vent, stopping at higher rpm due to more fuel being used, then overflowing again at idle. I disassembled the carb and cleaned the needle and seat. The needle seemed ok, couldn't visualize the seat valve real well (didnt remove it). I pulled the top of the carb off, and there was obvious fuel in the area on top of the slide diaphragm, but the diaphragm looked intact and in good shape. I cleaned it up and put it all back together, and it still does it. Anyone have any ideas re; what else might cause this? If not, I'll likely order up a new needle/seat assembly, but I want to rule out other possible causes first. Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by YonuhAdisi on 10/15/07 at 20:53:25

Now take off the bottom part and check the float, make sure its not sticking.

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by CapMorgan on 10/15/07 at 21:00:53

Yonuh,
I did that... that's the float needle and seat that I cleaned and inspected.

"I disassembled the carb and cleaned the needle and seat. The needle seemed ok, couldn't visualize the seat valve real well (didnt remove it)."

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by Reelthing on 10/15/07 at 21:20:27

the other area that causes some too much fuel problems is the petc0ck - might pull the vac line off that runs from the carb to the back side - should not be any fuel in that line - but when the petc0ck goes they'll usually run like crap as straight fuel is sucked into the intake

when you had the float out did you shake it to see if had any fuel in it?

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/15/07 at 21:30:48

If it is still leaking, then take it all apart and replace the float valve (needle) and seat, as said above. There might be dirt in there. Take the carb apart if need be. Might need a new float valve too. Don't just look at it. That is the only reason that you have leaking out of the vent hose...

Of course, it starts at idle because the bike is running and the pete0ck is turned on because of the vacuum.

PS - I have a Vulcan in the garage that is spewing gas out of one of it's Keihins for the same darned reason.

Good luck.

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/15/07 at 21:33:26

Reelthing wrote:

Yeah, but if the petc0ck is leaking, then gas goes in the engine or the air box, but it can't get back in the bowl in order to come out the vent hose...

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by Reelthing on 10/16/07 at 08:11:13

Savage_Greg wrote:

Yeah, but if the petc0ck is leaking, then gas goes in the engine or the air box, but it can't get back in the bowl in order to come out the vent hose...

agreed - I sure don't see how it could get in there either except through the float needle - and sure doesn't take much of a wear ring to prevent it good seal - nor would it suprise me if this e-10 fuel didn't shorten the life of that little rubber tip

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/16/07 at 08:21:24

The problem on the Vulcan is a bit more pronounced due to the fuel pump plus a little more disguised because the vent tubes are connected to the emissions cannister...

...WTF, why is there gas dripping under the radiator? The cannister was full of gas. Now, that's emission control!

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/16/07 at 08:23:20

Oh yeah...what if the float don't float or is adjusted too high?

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by YonuhAdisi on 10/16/07 at 08:49:01

CapMorgan wrote:

Okay, sorry about that, I mis-read it. Brain not working too well lately because of all these blasted migraines I've been having.

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/16/07 at 10:51:04

YonuhAdisi wrote:

Okay, sorry about that, I mis-read it. Brain not working too well lately because of all these blasted migraines I've been having.

Migraines suck. Not the same but similar pain...I just finished a cluster season. Get your doctor to prescribe some oxygen. Best medicine around.

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by Jazzdude on 10/16/07 at 11:01:45

Reelthing wrote:

the other area that causes some too much fuel problems is the petc0ck - might pull the vac line off that runs from the carb to the back side - should not be any fuel in that line..."

That's exactly what happened with my '88 Savage a couple of years ago. I first suspected the float, took off the carb, and cleaned the float and just about everything else. As I was putting the carb back on, I noticed fuel in the vacuum line. That tipped me off to check the petc0ck. Replaced the assembly and have had no problems since...

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by CapMorgan on 10/28/07 at 22:18:58

Well, as I originally suspected, it was the float needle/valve seal. When I pulled the old one to install the new one, I looked a bit closer, and there was a small wear ring on the needle. The new one fixed the problem, with no further problems. The wife was so stoked that it was working again. We spent the whole afternoon putting around back roads, and practicing in a local community college parking lot. She's scheduled to take her MSF course at the end of the month, and was dying to get in some "pre-lessons" and practice. I logged on here to see if there were any other possibilities I should check before replacing the needle and valve. Thanks to all who chimed in with ideas and suggestions.

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by newrider55 on 10/29/07 at 05:24:45

Speaking of Spewing fuel.. My LS is having diffulty starting. Seems as though it may be flooded. Smell gas after cranking few seconds and have to hold the throtle wide open before it will fire. Have not yet taken anything apart as not sure where to start with diaganosing this problem. Bought with Supertrapp and the carb had been modified. Any ideas where to start?

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by Reelthing on 10/30/07 at 06:34:54

newrider55 wrote:

Ok, the first thing to check is the oil - is there too much and does it smell strong of gasoline? if so you have a total failure of the petc0ck diaphram - not real common - but it does happen and will toast your engine

2nd - is there even a little bit of fuel in the vac line that runs from the carb to the petc0ck - should never be any - if so you have a failing petc0ck diaphram - it will make it run rich and should be fixed before Item 1 can happen

Next up I think would be to figure out what has been done to the carb - like what jet's are in it now - some folks get carried away, and what if anything has been done to the white spacer.

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by newrider55 on 11/03/07 at 09:31:57

Thanks Realthing!

After letting the bike set for couple of days, the Oil is full of gasoline. At this point I have just drained the tank in anticipation of removing the Petcork. Will continue with removal.

Tony

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by newrider55 on 11/03/07 at 11:18:20

Well pulled the vac line from the petcork to the carb and sure enough gas. pulled the tannk and petcork and cleaned the tank. Drained the oil and ran like water.

What would I use to flush out the crankcase? Hope to remove the leftover gasoline.

Should I pull the filter before flushing it?

Was thinking of adding oil and cranking over several times before reinstalling the tank so will not fire. Then draining again and changing oil and filter.

Opinions?

Suggestions?

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by newrider55 on 11/03/07 at 11:20:25

Any suggestions on repairing the petcork?

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by Savage_Greg on 11/04/07 at 06:42:27

newrider55 wrote:

Should I pull the filter before flushing it?

Yep. Might have gas in there too, and you don't need to feed that to the crankshaft.

Quote:

Was thinking of adding oil and cranking over several times before reinstalling the tank so will not fire. Then draining again and changing oil and filter.

Opinions?

Suggestions?

I'd get some really cheap oil, just to flush it. Remove the plug and pour a couple tablesp00ns in with the piston to lube the rings. Give it time to soak. Drain out the oil filter and reinstall. Then lay a rag over the spark plug hole and turn it over a good bit to pump the oil around thoroughly in the engine. Reinstall plug and tank and start the engine....let it run a couple minutes at idle.

Then change the oil and filter...

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by verslagen1 on 11/04/07 at 09:09:13

I have an idea regarding this dam petcork leaking into the vacuum line... would it be possible to put one of those clear fuel filters on the vac line? If fuel got in there you'd be able to see it. But would the filter impare the operation of the shut off valve? I have a spare filter and I'll give it a try and let y'all know. ;D

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by islandwahine on 11/04/07 at 09:58:07

What I did to see if there is any fuel in my vacuum hose, is replace the hose with a clear heavy duty silicone one. Now Ive never seen fuel when looking, but the clear silicone is turning yellow/brown, kinda like some folks have nicotine stains on their fingers from smoking. My question is why is it turning brown?? Doesn't it mean that something is leaking from there?

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by newrider55 on 11/04/07 at 10:48:49

Is there anyway to repair the petcork or does it need replacing? I have seen the conversion of the petcork but not sure I want to do that. Is there a replacement for the diaphram in the petcork?

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by islandwahine on 11/04/07 at 16:17:15

Check BikeBandit.com

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by newrider55 on 11/05/07 at 08:00:34

I checked bikebandit and all they have is a replacement for the petcork I was hoping for a new diaphram for it.

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by Reelthing on 11/05/07 at 12:11:06

I never could find just the diaphram for it either - seems to me the replacement was about $55 a couple years ago - just replaced it - seems better than an off/on valve that gets left on fairly often and relies on the float needle - but that's just me.

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by newrider55 on 11/05/07 at 12:50:58

Yep. Ordered one and should be here next couple days.

Thanks everyone for your input. Will keep ya posted.

Tony

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by newrider55 on 11/11/07 at 10:08:26

Well, I got the new petcork and installed..changed the oil added gas and start it right up..

Ran for about 30 seconds and quit. now will not start.

any suggestions?

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by newrider55 on 11/11/07 at 11:07:56

Pulled the float bowl drain and the was plenty of gas and when valve set to prime gas poured out the float bowl drain.

So it seems to begetting gas.

Since it fired up rightaway seems like maybe getting spark to. With the other problem I has maybe should replace the plug.

Will try that next. Dang..should have left the chrome cover off. Here goes the tank again.

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by newrider55 on 12/03/07 at 05:05:40

Well, finally got some time and some cooperation from the weather. Pulled the tank angin and changed the plug. Also changed the vacuum line. What do ya know...fired right up runs better than ever. Did the 2nd oil and filter change. Now waiting on good weather to test her on the road.

Thanks for all the help.

Newrider

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by youzguyz on 12/03/07 at 05:17:56

Glad to see you got it running ok.. and I hope it stays that way.
Sorry you didn't see this in time:
Spark plug door method (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1124016763)

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by thegeeze on 12/05/07 at 15:44:28

Sorry about jumping into this one so late! I'm glad you guys got it sorted out! You guys are good I wish I had found this forum earlier. I just wanted to mention http://www.carbkitcapital.com/. I get fuel system parts from them. Good guys with the right parts and seems cheap to me when I compare other online stores!

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by Savage_Greg on 12/08/07 at 07:18:15

newrider55 wrote:

How'd it go?

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by newrider55 on 12/08/07 at 18:10:47

Had nothing but bad weather since got her running. Have not put her on the road yet. Expecting freezing rain tomorrow and most of the week. Does idle great and fires right up. No rattle or smoke so hoping caught it in time.

Newrider

Title: Re: Carb spewing fuel
Post by newrider55 on 03/16/08 at 19:58:37

Had a good day for riding this weekend..Finally and fired her up first attempt and took her for a ride. Everything seems fine lots of power. Guess I caught it in time. Great to be back on the road again.