|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Bike benched for a while ! /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1192041537 Message started by islandwahine on 10/10/07 at 11:38:57 |
|
Title: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/10/07 at 11:38:57 Tried to take the bike to class last night, and had trouble starting it. Got about 1/2 mile down the road when it died. Took me a while and get her started up again, and as long as I revved her hard she kept going (died when easing throttle). So this morning I tried to figure out what was going on. Finally got her started same thing, let go of throttle she died. Then I noticed a big puddle on ground. GAS! Dripping from the bottom of bike. Started her back up again to see where it was coming from, this time is was pouring out from underneath, couldn't see where it was coming from. Let go of throttle and she died. Removed seat to see if I could find it, and noticed the end of the tube that is never connected to anything, except the top right of the carb, was wet. I always have it tucked under the seat. Started her up again to see if gas would come pouring out, nothing, no leak, no dripping, not from anywhere. Let go of throttle, she died. So I decided to put her on PRI. Started her up, she ran let go of throttle she ran..... turned petcork on "ON" she died. Guess my petcork is broken. Now how is it possible for gas to come out of that little hose? How come she rode fine for a while and then this? AAAHHHHHHHH!! |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by KCSavage on 10/10/07 at 11:45:40 I just had the same (or at least similar) problem. I converted it to the reserve/run/off as described in the tech forum. Now she runs fine. I didn't have the gas spilling out problem like you did though. It was just like one day the petcork decided it had enough and quit working. The petcork conversion didn't take much time. I highly recommend some gasket sealent for the petcork when you put it back on the tank. I have seen some of your posts so I am guessing you can handle this little problem fairly easy. |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/10/07 at 11:47:28 Thanks, I'll look for that post in the tech forum, sounds interesting! |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by Savage_Rob on 10/10/07 at 12:05:07 If the petc0ck is failing, you may want to check to be sure no fuel was making its way into the vacuum line. If it has, you could have fuel mixed with your oil and you'd want to change that. |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by youzguyz on 10/10/07 at 12:14:21 IW. Check the vacuum line going to the petcork. If it's leaking, the petcork can't feed gas to the carb. How it works: In NORM. Petcork is closed by diaphram inside, no gas flows. Engine starts, the vacuum line to the petcork pulls on the diaphram and opens path from tank to carb, gas flows. In PRI. diaphram is bypassed and gas flows all the time, and is only stopped by the float valve in the carb. So, I would check that vacuum line first. |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by youzguyz on 10/10/07 at 12:50:28 So.. if I am reading all this right. Pull vacuum line from petcork. If gas starts coming out of that fitting on the petcork, the diaphram in there is shot and odds are good you have gas in your oil. Instead of the vacuum just opening the petcork, the vacuum is pulling gas from the tank into the engine. That is what Rob described. If there is no gas coming from the fitting. Pull vacuum line from carb end as well. Check line for leaks. That's what I described. The concept is clear in my mind.. it just has a hard time making it to words. Fingers keep getting in the way. :P |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/10/07 at 13:53:40 Well!!.......... Did not see fuel in vacuum line. Have petcork taken all.... the way apart. Looks like diaphragm is intact. Now what I did find was an utterly yucky!! http://w3.bikepics.com/pics/2007%5C10%5C10%5Cbikepics-1052161-full.jpg I kinda wonder if it was able to have any suction at all! I think I might attempt the petcork conversion. The only thing I'm worried about with doing that is....what happens if i forget to turn the petcork OFF after I'm done riding? |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by youzguyz on 10/10/07 at 13:55:57 The same thing that would happen if you left it at PRI all the time. IF your float valve is ok, nothing evil. IF it's bad and lets gas flow up into the carb.. then .. someone else would know better than I. ;D I presume you checked the vacuum line itself, and it isn't leaking. Maybe just cleaning that thing up and then testing it would be ok. |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by Reelthing on 10/10/07 at 13:56:18 your ok as long as the carb float does not stick |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by Reelthing on 10/10/07 at 13:57:34 sounds like a float stick anyway - if you had gas out the vents |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by youzguyz on 10/10/07 at 14:01:33 Reelthing wrote:
And there is the voice of the someone who knows better than I. You just cleaned the carb. I wonder if the float didn't go in quite as it should maybe? |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/10/07 at 14:19:31 youzguyz wrote:
Well I did not see anything different on the float stick, there are only 2 ways it could go back in there, and both right and left side looked the same (I don't mean op and bottom!!). Guess I need to check it out again. Thanks guys! |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by Reelthing on 10/10/07 at 14:36:46 doesn't take much of a wear ring on the float needle rubber to make a less than proper seal - might eyeball it real good - normal when the petc0ck fails the bike starts sucking gas in through the vac line and running rough - then when you turn it off it contiues to run down the vac line filling the air box and cylinder with fuel - this fuel slowly seeps past the rings and fills the crankcase - then you can have some real issues as the new mixture of oil and gas doen't lube quite as well and stuff that moves starts to score pretty fast |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/10/07 at 14:40:00 OK, got carb out again! It did go out a heck of a lot easier without the top on, I'll have to mention that in my tech post! The little scrawny clip that hangs the valve on the float has a couple of curvy things on them, which I had facing out towards the bowl. I flipped the valve and now have the scrawny clip facing the other way. Hopefully that is the way it was supposed to go. What did you guys mean with the float stick?? the valve? |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/10/07 at 14:41:02 Reelthing wrote:
That's a hard one! it looks absolutely perfect! |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by Reelthing on 10/10/07 at 14:47:54 if you don't see a little near perfect circle of wear near the tip of it's likely in good shape unless you have some trash that has found it self between it and the seat - shake the float if you still have it apart - doesn't slosh around does it? - a sinking float can be he77 to find |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/10/07 at 14:53:22 I see a circle but near the bottom. What do you think? http://w3.bikepics.com/pics/2007%5C10%5C10%5Cbikepics-1052240-800.jpg |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/10/07 at 14:59:01 Question... The valve hangs on a lip which is part of the float. Right now the lip is flush with the area around it. What re the effects of the lip being up (towards the top of the carb) or down, towards floatbowl? |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by Reelthing on 10/10/07 at 15:08:04 not sure I understand the question - float goes down let's gas in goes up cuts the gas off - if the needle seats proper can you feel that ring with you finger nail? |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/10/07 at 15:28:06 Reelthing wrote:
No I can't feel it at all. As far as my question about the metal lip Clymer's suggested slightly bending it up or down depending on having the bike run richer or leaner. But they didn't say which was to bend it to get it to go richer. |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by Reelthing on 10/10/07 at 15:41:52 wow - I sure wouldn't bend it for rich/lean - set the float level- yes - but there is no reason to believe you float level is incorrect - by the way was there any debris in the float bowl when you took it off? sure wouldn't hurt to install a small inline filter |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/10/07 at 15:49:58 Reelthing wrote:
There was a tiny bit in it the first time I took the bowl off, but not today. |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/10/07 at 15:51:37 I decided to wait on the petcork conversion. If the valve is indeed bad, I don't want to end up with gas in my crank case. Maybe having cleaned the vacuum plug will help. |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by Reelthing on 10/10/07 at 15:55:49 if the float doesn't have gas in it - you hear nothing sloshing around - the float needle looks good enough, the pin the float hangs on is clean and free - back together and keep a big screw driver handy - starts over flowing like that wack the bowl with the plastic/rubber end of the screw driver - a good wack get an small inline filter in case some little bits of rust are come'n from the tank - and fire it up |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by jkhulon73 on 10/10/07 at 18:04:34 You might want to check the insides of the bowl as well for any type of abrasion- on top of a bad o-ring in the needle valve, a bad petcork diafragum, a plugged pilot jet, and crud on the slide, my float was rubbing up against the inside of the bowl and getting stuck. No matter how much I whacked on it with a screwdriver, it stayed stuck... |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by T-Mack1 on 10/10/07 at 18:39:09 Simple test to see if the float valve seat/seal is ok, With fuel bowl off carb but float still on, Take a fuel line hose or similar size (suggest a clean hose) and put on carb fuel inlet. Take the other end of clean hose and huff & puff & blow a little air thru hose (light pressure only!!!). With float dangling, air should come out. Next, gently lift float up, emphasis on gently. Air should shut off. Extra test, try to see it will hold pressure in the shut-off position. Remember that air is thinner than gas, so it will leak by faster. |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/10/07 at 22:01:21 Thanks T-Mack, will do that test. While the carb was off again I did the spacer modification, and this time washed the diaphragm with some dish soap so it wouldn't be sticky anymore. After I re-assembled the carb for the second time, and put it back on, I changed the oil and filter, which was a good thing too!! Thanks to Reelthing!!! He explained about the oil seepage. I had indeed gas in my oil!! I think it happened when I was fiddling with the bike this morning, am I wishful thinking? I hope that having cleaned out the petcork's vacuum debris will have fixed the problem, but if it is the valve, I'll have gas in the oil again..... After changing the oil and filter I started her up, and she started right away, and strong!! Took her for a spin, and wonder over wonder she ran fantastic, even better then last time. She sped up and down smoothly, no jerking or irregular speeds, just plain fantastic, for about 15 minutes............................... then she stalled. I let her cool down at the store, did my grocery shopping and was able to start her back up again (took a few seconds, sounded like she had no gas). I made it home without stalling by keeping the throttle revving high, and held the clutch partially in when I had to slow down. Once I got home she died with a lot bang! No smoke though. I messed with the idle and pilot screw a while and got her running smoothly when idling. I'm gonna leave it till tomorrow, and try your test. |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by LANCER on 10/11/07 at 01:46:42 What year is your bike? |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/11/07 at 10:27:26 LANCER wrote:
1999 |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/11/07 at 11:30:52 Thanks T-Mack, that was a great idea! The valve works great!! I pushed the float up gently while blowing, and pretty soon the air stopped. It's pretty strong seal actually I didn't blow hard, but the resistance was total once the valve sealed off the passage, pretty cool! So now my question is, how did the gas get in the oil if it wasn't the valve???? I don't think a lot got into it, cause my tank was still pretty full after it happened (I had filled her up the day before and only rode a short distance after). So I think I caught it in time. Still, what happened? Now I know that it's not the valve I'll put the float bowl back on and take her out for a short spin to see if she stalls again. |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by Reelthing on 10/11/07 at 12:42:50 once you get it back together - suck on the vac line that goes to the petc0ck - get any gas? - ( I'm sure there's safer ways to pull a vac on this line - but that's the easy way) |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by Max_Morley on 10/11/07 at 12:58:54 An old medical syringe is a safer way to check this and has other uses, like adding distilled water to the battery. Max |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by Rockin_John on 10/11/07 at 13:43:48 Max_Morley wrote:
Here's one in a handy 35cc size: http://catoosatrading.com/images/cycles/35cc_syringe.JPG Ask your local horse Doctor to save you a couple, or offer to pay for them. Be sure and explain what you want them for, so they don't think you have a really huge dope addiction!!! ;D |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/11/07 at 13:51:55 I have a couple of ink cartridge syringes, I think that might work too. So if I do this, I'm NOT supposed to get any gas right? I'm still in the dark as to what all the parts of a carburetor are for. I've seen it inside out now, but what each part exactly does is beyond me. Do you know of a book or a site that explains step for step what each part actually does? Would be interesting to find out. |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by Reelthing on 10/11/07 at 14:40:00 ok ok, you can buy one those big 35cc ones at the drug store for about a $1 - work well to bleed the brakes too but where's the fun in that - she'll miss spitting out gas and learning new words no - should not be any gas ever come down the vac line from the petc0ck |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/11/07 at 18:00:31 Reelthing wrote:
I wasn't ever gonna do it by mouth!! :P I get extremely nauseous and clammy when I even smell gas, no way I would siphon it by mouth. I think I'd go into convulsions!! I wear one of those masks that filters chemicals when I work with gas or oil paints etc. I really hate feeling sick. |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by jkhulon73 on 10/11/07 at 18:35:46 islandwahine wrote:
For some reason I get hungry when I smell gas... |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/12/07 at 01:59:02 jkhulon73 wrote:
That's funny! I'd much rather feel hungry than sick! |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/12/07 at 02:06:35 Reelthing wrote:
No, not a drop or even a scent of gas. I did hear the spring in the petcork scrunch (the one underneath the white cone shaped twisty thing) when I pulled the air out with the syringe. So I guess so far petcork and vacuum seem okay. |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by youzguyz on 10/12/07 at 02:15:47 Did you get gas flowing out of the petcork to the carb when you pulled the vacuum? or couldn't tell because it was already completely hooked up? That's the "proof of the pudding". |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by T-Mack1 on 10/12/07 at 11:10:12 Next test !!!! I should have seem this one before, sorry..... With a good seal on the syringe & vacuum line (gook it and let dry if you have to), try to see if the setup will hold vacuum. In theory, it should hold for a good long time as long as you can keep the syringe pulled out and not moving and have a good syringe to hose to petc0ck seal to begin with. If your petc0ck diaphram is leaking by (got a hole/crack in it), you will lose the vacuum fairly quickly. |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/12/07 at 12:33:04 T-Mack1 wrote:
Yep, that would have been handy to know before I put the hose back on! As soon as I feel like taking it of again I'll try that! Actually, when I took the petcork apart I looked at the diaphragm, an it looked in good shape. |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by islandwahine on 10/12/07 at 12:35:08 youzguyz wrote:
I had put it back together already. But I can always empty the floatbowl by draining it (loosen the drain screw), and try again while leaving the screw off. If gas pours out I guess it works. |
|
Title: Re: Bike benched for a while ! Post by T-Mack1 on 10/12/07 at 15:20:34 islandwahine Sorry, I was at work, couldn't answer earlier. I only check the forum at lucnh or if it's a totally dead day. Today was a day of trying to keep one manager from screaming at another. Gezz, these people on a power trip should buy a LS650 and take a cruise ....... sorry ...... your's isn't running ....rude of me ....... But I'll take a ride for you....... |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |