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Message started by strangeling on 10/03/07 at 16:42:08

Title: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by strangeling on 10/03/07 at 16:42:08

Hey,

I know quite a few on this site have had the chain conversion for a while now so I just wanted to get a few more thoughts on the conversion such as any problems that have occurred, what gearing people have ended up running, what highway speed is the Savage now comfortable cruising at and what effect to the bottom end has this had for around town riding.

Also is anyone with the chain conversion running Lancers carb or cam ?

Thanx

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by Aviler on 10/03/07 at 16:54:27

While we're on the subject, would anybody be willing to clarify some of the positives and negatives of chain vs. belt drive?

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by demin on 10/03/07 at 17:09:20

Check the tech section,There are some threads started for different gearing,etc.

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by Paladin on 10/03/07 at 21:50:47

strangeling wrote:

....what gearing people have ended up running, what highway speed ... bottom end has this had for around town riding.....

I'm thinking of chain for the ease of switching ratios. Did this on my DT175 back in the '70's, dirt and street countershaft sprockets and I could just slide the wheel to adjust the chain between the two. On the Savage, the stock belt drive is 2.956:1. A 45 tooth rear coupled with a 14 and17 fronts would give me 2.647:1 for highway use and 3.214:1 for the city.

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/03/07 at 22:54:24

I have yet to hear of anyoine who did the conversion whining that they thought it was just as good before, or beter before, all Ive heard is,, New Machine, better on the road, better MPG, if ya gain 15% in top end, ya should gain close to 15% in MPG & lose about 15% of bottom end, ( I am guessing, but surely someone will toss out better figures if they are handy) It accelerates well enough to lose some & trade that for higher cruise speed & MPG,, PLus, chain is a more efficient power transfer.

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by bill67 on 10/04/07 at 04:19:31

Why couldnt we get someone to make different sprockes for the belt drive? I think a lot of people here would buy them.

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by hutch on 10/04/07 at 05:57:17

bill67 wrote:

Why couldnt we get someone to make different sprockes for the belt drive? I think a lot of people here would buy them.

Don't forget you will need a different belt. Neither will be cheap to accomplish. Sprockets and chains are abundant. Under $100 will get you where you want for your power preference. I don't regret going to chain one bit. Others said it was the best investment they ever made to the Savage. I agree. That is why, when I started the chain conversion, and so many thought I was crazy, I didn't quit. I knew others were waiting to see the benefits. There are many. Increased engine life due to fewer RPM"s at the same speed. Increased gas mileage. You can do as Paladin said and in just a few minutes change you bike for dual personality, and you don't have to pull the back shock loose to change anything once converted, just change out the front or rear sprocket.
I went with a 17/43 and it will run the interstate for long periods at 70mph with no problem, but still has plenty of torque for acceleration and passing, yes passing at 70mph. No down shifting to pass on the interstate either. I now run 3rd gear in town just like most of the cruiser and bigger bikes do. A 15% increase in gas mileage brought me to 70mpg. I have other front sprockets that I tried, but the 17/43 works so good that I just left it on. It's a win win situation. Not so nuts after all. You can fix a chain on the side of the road. You have to replace your belt when it goes south. I can't fit a belt in my pocket like I can a spare link for a chain. Try it, you'll like it. Hutch

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by bill67 on 10/04/07 at 11:20:04

You could go a certain amount without needing a different belt.

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by Aviler on 10/04/07 at 16:34:49

So what kind of maintenance does a chain drive require? I don't have the history with motorcycles that some of y'all have :)

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by barry68v10 on 10/04/07 at 17:34:04

I put an automatic chain oiler on mine. I use regular motor oil. I bought the cheapest chain I could find, $15...it hasn't "stretched" in the 2000 miles I've had it. As long as you keep them lubed, they can last a long time.

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by strangeling on 10/04/07 at 20:28:03

Thanks for all the information. I was going to sell my S40 but honestly everytime I ride it I remember why I have it, so the chain mod is going to be one of my winter projects. And maybe forward controls and Lancers Carb and Cam setup and 150 rear tire and ........??????

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by hutch on 10/05/07 at 06:06:35

bill67 wrote:

You could go a certain amount without needing a different belt.

The front belt pulley would probably be the cheapest to reproduce, but you can't go any bigger because of lack of room. To increase mileage and lower rpm you have to go at least 10% to make any noticeable difference. If you do this with the back pulley(more costly to make).... the pulley would change diameter so much that the original belt would never work. On my 17/43 chain conversion, the 17 front sprocket is very close to the same diameter as the original belt pulley. The back 43 sprocket however is very much smaller than the stock belt pulley. The only way you can cheaply and easily get significant results is to go to a chain. The new products like CHAIN WAX makes the chain a lot less messy than the old days. I also have put lots of miles on my conversion and have not adjusted the chain but after the first 500 mile break in. Hutch

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by rigidchop on 10/05/07 at 06:48:34

i hate chain lube and usually have to change chains once or twice a year. it may be expensive but it's a whole lot better looking. imo. i will soon be doing the chain conversion on my 87, i really need more top end for the interstate.any ideas on a good ratio to use with a 4 speed?

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by hutch on 10/05/07 at 08:05:51

rigidchop wrote:

From all the information that I went through and received while coming up with the chain conversion, it seems the 4 and 5 speed are so close to the same ratio in top gear, that you would be able to go by the chart I put in the tech section. With my 17/43 sprockets I can cruise at 70mph at a rpm close to the same rpm as a big cruiser. My freind has a 1200 Sportster and we cruise together at almost the same rpm at 70mph. Please note that the suggested top speeds in those charts can only be reached if everything about your bike is perfect. I myself have not reached that top speed. I have not had to go to heavier clutch springs. The Savage has so much torque that it still comes of the line with no bogging, and you do not have to slip the clutch. Just ride and shift as usual. You will no longer be trying to shift into another "final" gear, that isn't there. I believe that Suzuki didn't gear the bike this way for one reason. They would have lost sales on the next bigger bike in there line up. You won't believe the difference this conversion makes. IMO it is a much more versatile and economical bike, with longer life as a bonus. One thing to note is your speedo will be off. I just add the % of gear ratio change to each "indicated "speed. I had it checked with radar and when mine says 60mph it is really 70. 80 indicated is close 93mph. I was going to see about recalibrating my speedo, but now I pretty much know what is happening. You will also have to remember you are putting more miles on than indicated. Change your oil accordingly. Hutch

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by Savage_Rob on 10/05/07 at 09:58:29

hutch wrote:

You will also have to remember you are putting more miles on than indicated. Change your oil accordingly.

I always do mine more often than required and use full synthetic but it would seem that the engine still gets the same number of rotations for the number of indicated miles as it did prior to the conversion, so oil changes could still be done using indicated mileage. I guess it has a little more grunt to do on starts but, as you stated, it has so much torque it makes little difference on that count. Am I missing something else?

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by Holodeck on 10/05/07 at 12:31:48

I too am considering the chain conversion, for the following reasons:

1. When I'm on the freeway going about 75 ( and not liking it ) I sometimes pull in the clutch, wait a few seconds for the engine to de-rev and guess what - the bike glides along just like my old fat tire Schwinn bicycle....well sort of.

2. I like taking off in 2nd gear, maybe half way between 1st and 2nd would work too.

3. I too, many times, am looking for a 6th gear.

4. The belt squeaks. No matter what I do, and I have done a plenty, It still squeaks arggggggggggg !

5. With all the mods done the bike has so much more power it seems wasted on low gearing.

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by Aviler on 10/05/07 at 12:43:24

The issue of the incorrect speedometer/mileage could be compensated for with a properly calibrated Sigma bike computer, correct?

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by bill67 on 10/05/07 at 12:47:22

Can you still use belt guard with chain?

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by Savage_Rob on 10/05/07 at 12:54:01

Aviler wrote:

The issue of the incorrect speedometer/mileage could be compensated for with a properly calibrated Sigma bike computer, correct?

Yes. That's usually functioning with a magnet on the front wheel somewhere.

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by Paladin on 10/05/07 at 13:24:56

... and once you've gone to the Sigma speedometer on the handlebar there is no need for that huge cavity in the gas tank. This winter's project is to take my $20 tank and cut it up and rebuild it two inches taller and without the speedometer cavity -- gotta be worth two gallons!

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by Aviler on 10/05/07 at 14:10:42

Paladin wrote:

Bah! Who needs two more gallons. I'm going to turn mine into a cup holder :)

Well, maybe not.

If/when I get around to/get finances for doing stuff to my Savage, the Sigma is definitely on my list. Converting that cavity might be an idea, but I'd have to enlist help on it. Still trying to make a decision on the chain drive idea. I like the benefits that have been mentioned, but I'm still kind of leery about it. I've got time to ponder it, though.

Thank you all for your input into this thread.

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by Paladin on 10/05/07 at 15:28:19

Aviler wrote:

Bah! Who needs two more gallons. I'm going to turn mine into a cup holder :)

??? That's a great Idea! Really! One of the things I was having to do on my trip was stop to hydrate. I couldn't figure out how to wedge a cup/bottle on the handlebars.

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by verslagen1 on 10/05/07 at 15:39:24

Sooner or later I'm going to bolt on a bicycle water bottle holder. I saw one motorcycle specific one, and that's what it was. $30 bucks for a bike bottle holder. What do they think? We got HD's or something? ;D

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by Aviler on 10/05/07 at 15:42:24

Paladin wrote:

??? That's a great Idea! Really! One of the things I was having to do on my trip was stop to hydrate. I couldn't figure out how to wedge a cup/bottle on the handlebars.

Yeah, Savages are kind of lacking in necessities such as cup/bottle holders :)

I can't take credit for that idea, though. I've seen it somewhere on this forum prior to this.

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by FreeSpirit on 10/05/07 at 16:59:35

verslagen1 wrote:

I wondered why all MC stuff is so high....do we need to send them all emails enlightening them on the fact that we're not rich,but that we know they are ;D

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by LANCER on 10/05/07 at 17:29:05

Quote:

Yeah, Savages are kind of lacking in necessities such as cup/bottle holders :)

If you take the speedo out of the tank you can insert a molded cup holder down inside...it works quite well.

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by hutch on 10/06/07 at 05:35:21

Savage_Rob wrote:

Rob, the mph is off and likewise the odometer is off, indicating fewer miles than what are actually put on. They both run off the transmission. If the speedo ran off the front or rear tire, like the older bikes used to it would still be correct. In my case with the 15% change in gear ratio, I change my oil at 1800 miles indicated, because when you add 15%, you get 2070 actual. If you put 2000 indicated miles on you actualy went 2300 miles. It might not seem that much more, but I like to play it safe, as it seems you do with early oil changes. I hope this cleared up what I was trying to say. I probably should have explained why in the first post. Sorry!!! Hutch

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by metri on 10/06/07 at 13:13:37

I'm late to the thread as always, but I do love to add my 2 cents :D

I do like the chain conversion and am not sorry I did it. I also run the 17/43 at the moment. It's great on the highway. I have 18" ape hangers so my bike isn't exactly streamlined, but it looks cool (IMHO). I installed a nice sigma backlit speedo and it workded great. WOT in 5th I got up to 147.99km/h. Stupid .99, but still not too bad considering the aeirodymics and it will do 125km/h all day and it doesn't sound like it's going to explode. In the city however I have a few more issues with this gearing. I like to drive 60km/h in town or often have to, and that's fairly high rev's in 2nd, but it's just too low in 3rd. I find I'm constantly switching between 2nd and 3rd when following someone or doing 70km/h just so I can be confortably in 3rd. I'm going to drop the front to a 16 for a bit, because I do most driving in town right now, and to see the difference. It's AWESOME to be able to switch it up like that, and it was such a great cheap conversion.

Speedo... I hate taking off the sigma speedo at every stop and didn't really like the look of the wire going to the front wheel. ( I have no wires to handlebars, no turn signals etc.). While out I didn't take it off and someone stole the little gadget and made the decision to take off the speedo very easy.

I had taken to using the speedo hole in the tank as a drink holder, and had much success carrying plastic bottles. I then thought, why not put my tall can of beer in the hole on the way to poker.... I got sprayed with beer about halfway to the game when the can ruptured. I was very suprised, covered in beer and it cooked onto my engine. Note to self, don't put can's in a hole with somewhat sharp edges!

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by bill67 on 10/06/07 at 13:22:57

You can get bike speedos that are wireless now at . $20 walmart

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by Odar on 10/06/07 at 13:31:05

Metri
You are absolute right when you say second gear is to low and theard is to high, the problem is that its a to big gap betwen this two gears to be good in town, and on very small and curvy roads, thats the reason I changed to 16 at front, I did try the 17/43 for a few days but 16/43 suit me better.
I guess you will find that better as well.
Even if I liked the 17/43 on the highway.
Odar

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by bill67 on 10/06/07 at 13:38:34

Odar is that 4 speed or 5 speed your talking about?

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by hutch on 10/06/07 at 16:17:43

I have the 5 speed and only weigh 150lbs, so maybe that is why the 17/43 works great for me. It sounds perfect and is not lugging or over reving at 25-30 mph in 3rd gear. What is nice is the fact that you can change the ratio to fit your needs with the chain conversion. Hutch

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by Aviler on 10/06/07 at 17:42:00

So how quick/easy is it to change from 16 to 17?

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by hutch on 10/06/07 at 17:58:25

Aviler wrote:

So how quick/easy is it to change from 16 to 17?

Kinda like "WHAM BAM, THANK YOU MAM" Hutch

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by Paladin on 10/06/07 at 20:20:02

If I recall correctly, on my DT175 it was:
loosen rear axle, slide wheel foreward slightly
remove nut on countershaft, remove cog from shaft
remove chain from cog, place new cog on chain
place chained cog onto countershaft, replace/tighten nut
adjust rear wheel back to snug the chain and tighten.

Title: Re: Chain Conversion thoughts !
Post by Odar on 10/06/07 at 23:06:47

bill67
Its 5 gears model.
Look at the gap betwen 2 and 3 gears
Here is picture of original gearing, 16/43 change app,10% and that made the original 5gear to 4 now, I have an extra gear ;D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Odar1/Odars%20Savage/KmRPMcorr.jpg?t=1191738371
Odar