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Message started by Savage_Greg on 10/02/07 at 09:09:10

Title: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/02/07 at 09:09:10

Here is my old fork oil after 14,000 miles and 7 years....compared to some new synthetic blend.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/Fork_Oil_NewOld.jpg

Those with the older bikes here might want to put this on your winter "to do" list.

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Max_Morley on 10/02/07 at 09:12:23

In Max's experience the OE oil always comes out that way. Must be the oil they use, some of the metal from fork break in, and in the case of off road bikes some mositure from landing in water. Subsequent ones look much better.

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/02/07 at 09:23:21

Max_Morley wrote:

Sure. But shouldn't it be changed anyway? You break in an engine and change that oil don't you? Need to get the particulate matter out...there was definitely a different "color" to what came out of the bottom of the slider.

I just wonder how many 80s and 90s models are running around with the stock oil in the forks. Might make someone think they need a fork brace when fresh oil is the real answer.

I'm changing mine because my spouse's feels so much better since I did hers. What's $10 and a couple hours tinkering anyway....:P

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by bill67 on 10/02/07 at 10:13:07

I think the fork oil should be changed years ago they said japs used fish oil who knows. I think when I change my engine oil i will put the bike on tilt trailer lay it down and drain fork oil over night. Im old and lazy and crazy

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Reelthing on 10/02/07 at 10:17:10

bill67 wrote:

what just flip it upside down ?

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by bill67 on 10/02/07 at 10:25:07

yes laying over on side front down

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by bill67 on 10/02/07 at 10:26:27

And you will fine metal in the fork oil

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/02/07 at 10:29:35

bill67 wrote:

Of course, the term "fish oil" was once more of a joke about the "then emerging" Japanese motorcycle market. I doubt that they really squeeze a bunch of sardines into each fork.

I understand the old, lazy and crazy. That'll be a good way to drain your tank and carbs for winter too :P

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/02/07 at 10:30:37

Reelthing wrote:

what just flip it upside down ?

Just like a kid with a bicycle, ya know ::)

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/02/07 at 10:33:54

bill67 wrote:

And you will fine metal in the fork oil

I haven't seen the bushings for the Savage yet. Aren't they teflon coated? Either way, there will be stuff in there.

I think that our "Island Connection" can tell us. She pulled her forks apart...I saw the photo ::)

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by bill67 on 10/02/07 at 10:37:16

You dont think that would work? as what I heard there is no oil in japan they have to import. when we cut off selling them gas and oil they bombed Pearl Harbor. am not saying that was a good reason

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by bill67 on 10/03/07 at 08:29:07

They used cod liver oil in the forks :D

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by thumperclone on 10/03/07 at 14:59:24

bill67 wrote:

They used cod liver oil in the forks :D

yep the pacific cod

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Aviler on 10/03/07 at 16:56:32

thumperclone wrote:

yep the pacific cod

Probably because it was easier to catch than the frenzied cod. :)

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by islandwahine on 10/03/07 at 20:55:40

Savage_Greg wrote:

Who ??? What ??? Where???
Remind me again which one of those "zillion" pieces was the bushing?

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/04/07 at 07:01:45

islandwahine wrote:

Who ??? What ??? Where???
Remind me again which one of those "zillion" pieces was the bushing?

How did you get your forks apart? Can you post the picture of the zillion parts that you have? I can't find your link to BikePics...

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Rob on 10/04/07 at 07:09:05

I should probably change mine sometime soon. I'm pretty sure it's probably the original fork oil.

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/04/07 at 07:58:23

Savage_Rob wrote:

I should probably change mine sometime soon. I'm pretty sure it's probably the original fork oil.

It made a real difference on Julie's bike. Just compressing the forks in the garage in a before "before and after" test showed a difference. There was sort of a "click" (one that you feel) before I changed the oil. I think that comes from one fork moving differently than the other. The compression is smooth now with no "sound".

She said that it felt better after she rode it, but I can't tell if that was just a psychological thing or not :P

I put mine back on last night...

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Dr_Jim on 10/04/07 at 10:56:19

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Rob on 10/04/07 at 10:58:03

Mine make no sound, compress normally and don't leak... but the bike is a 98 and I doubt the original owner changed it. I've never changed fork oil before but it doesn't seem that difficult. I'll just have to manage to carve out a half-day on a weekend sometime and get it done.

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by bill67 on 10/04/07 at 13:11:54

I dont think you need to take out spacer tube and spring s just let the oil drain I have many times wihen they had the bolt on the side. Also never compressed the forks all the oil went right in.

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by islandwahine on 10/04/07 at 22:40:43

Savage_Greg wrote:

How did you get your forks apart? Can you post the picture of the zillion parts that you have? I can't find your link to BikePics...

Here it is:
http://w2.bikepics.com/pics/2007%5C09%5C02%5Cbikepics-1011606-full.jpg (http://w2.bikepics.com/pics/2007%5C09%5C02%5Cbikepics-1011606-full.jpg)

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/07 at 22:49:41

IW, your use & inclusion of cookware in your project pics has made it so much easier for me to gain permission to use the cookware in the garage. Thanxalott!

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by klx650sm2002 on 10/05/07 at 02:50:29

When I changed fork oil in KLX I used one of these to set the oil level as per book.
http://www.bikebandit.com/Assets/product_images/05MotionProForkOilLevelGaugeLG.gif
Since took another 20mm out.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/05/07 at 09:33:59

islandwahine wrote:

Here it is:
http://w2.bikepics.com/pics/2007%5C09%5C02%5Cbikepics-1011606-full.jpg (http://w2.bikepics.com/pics/2007%5C09%5C02%5Cbikepics-1011606-full.jpg)

Yes. That's the one...

Right there in the middle are your fork tubes with the sliders on the right. I think that I see the dust covers and seals also. On the end of the tubes are the bushings and to get them out you usually have to "slide hammer" the sliders in a vise.

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/05/07 at 09:39:39

justin_o_guy2 wrote:

IW, your use & inclusion of cookware in your project pics has made it so much easier for me to gain permission to use the cookware in the garage. Thanxalott!

I cautiously use the approach of "it's better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission" :P

I have an old dutch oven and a couple cake pans in the garage.

This usually works in the long run since it provides her with the excuse to buy new ones anyway.

Sometimes, this kind of co-dependency really works well :)

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/05/07 at 09:51:19

Dr_Jim wrote:

BTW -

It is possible to drain the front forks on the bike ...

There's an 8mm hex bolt at the bottom of the fork, but it's underneath the front axle, so the front wheel and axle have to be removed first.

Since I'd already jacked up the bike and pulled the wheel off to fit a Kenda 761 tire, I decided to drop the 8mm bolts and see what happened.

I attacked the right fork first with my trusty 8mm Tee-wrench - the bolt was torqued fairly well, and took some grunt to loosen, but it unthreaded easily once I'd broken it free.

Glorp! out poured a bunch of really nasty-looking fork oil, looks like you can drain these forks after all....

The left side turned out to be somewhat more of a problem, since the piece that the 8mm hex bolt was threaded into kept turning inside the fork, and the 8mm impact driver bit I had was too wide to fit into the fork, and it's hex part too short reach up inside.

No problem, time for "Instant Bubba Wrench... Using only hand tools commonly found in any workshop, you too can easily create a little piece of Arkansas in the privacy of your own garage!"

I used a 3' long aluminum pipe as a cheater bar on the 8mm Tee-handle wrench, and then as Wife Katherine dubiously held the wrench and cheater in place, wailed on it with a 2 Lb top-maul - "Whap! Whap! Whappity-WHAP! Ting!"

"What did you break, Honey?"

"The bolt free, Darling. Sorry to disappoint you ..."

The left fork drained as well as the right one, so I now had two empty forks to refill - removed the upper fork caps, and discovered that with low risers you have to unbolt the handle bars and move them back an inch or two to get the spacer tubes and springs out.

I followed the Clymer's instructions to "fully compress the forks before filling," but could not get more than about 200ml of oil in before the fork overflowed.

Mutter, mutter, mutter

Removed most of the excess oil with a Turkey Baster, then filled the forks the 'old school' way by putting in about two baster fulls (roughly 110 ml) in each side and working the forks up and down until the oil migrated into the lower part of the fork - it took 4 repetitions until the forks felt right, so I'm assuming that they have enough oil.

Yes, on a normal bike it's probably about as easy to just pull the forks off, but since I've got a steering damper, a fork brace, and a windshield (which was a total PITA to install) to fuss with, this seemed to be a little easier.

Cheers

Jim

Cheers Jim,

I'm somewhat curious here. I understand that with this method, that you used the fork springs to hold the slider in order to remove the 8 MM bolt. That also allows you to drain the oil.

You used a bunch of short cuts to avoid a more complex job. Got that.

I also understand the interference with the risers/handlebars because I have buckhorns. I just placed a mat on the tank and laid the bars back out of the way after removing the clamps.

But the manual states 441 ml in each fork and 75 mm from the top (with the tube compressed). Are you really content with only putting 1/2 the suggested oil in each fork?

BTW - I've decided that when I decide to replace seals or bushings and have the forks completely apart, that a nicely placed tapped hole in the bottom of the slider would be really nice. Then it will be like most of the older bikes that I work on anyway.

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Dr_Jim on 10/05/07 at 10:39:24

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/05/07 at 10:48:22

Ah...the "turkey baster" has a changed...things are never as simple as they appear. Especially when there's drinkin' and thinkin' going on :P

BTW - those "Bubba" brand tools are the best.

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Dr_Jim on 10/05/07 at 11:08:20

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by islandwahine on 10/05/07 at 12:01:03

justin_o_guy2 wrote:

IW, your use & inclusion of cookware in your project pics has made it so much easier for me to gain permission to use the cookware in the garage. Thanxalott!

So what happened, you showed your wife the picture??
Well, as long as you don't tell her that those are old pans that I had not planned on using as cook ware ever again you're safe!

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/07/07 at 08:37:24

Dr_Jim wrote:

A turkey baster and graduated measuring cup work, they're just messy - especially if you've got tremors, old eyes, and a tendency to knock things ":!@#$%^&!!@!!" over ....

Since I'm messing with suspension mods this week - just mounted a set of 12.5" H-D Dyna shocks on the rear for more tire clearance and better stiffness in right-hand corners - and am planning to also modify the fork pre-load too - it made sense to get a better tool to adjust the oil levels with.

Cheers

Jim

The graduated pitcher that I use only cost about $5 at the bike shop. Good for measuring all kinds of stuff like premix oil.

I preloaded our front springs a bit too. Did it a while back by adding 6 hardware store washers under the fork cap. They were about 1" diameter and added up to 3/8". Makes it just a tiny bit harder to get the caps on, but I figure that my "mature" frame needs the extra support :P

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by barry68v10 on 10/07/07 at 08:43:09

Savage_Greg wrote:

I preloaded our front springs a bit too. Did it a while back by adding 6 hardware store washers under the fork cap. They were about 1" diameter and added up to 3/8". Makes it just a tiny bit harder to get the caps on, but I figure that my "mature" frame needs the extra support :P

I cut a piece of 3/4" PVC for the same purpose in my dirt bike forks. Has worked great for about 2 years now...

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/07/07 at 08:45:36

barry68v10 wrote:

I cut a piece of 3/4" PVC for the same purpose in my dirt bike forks. Has worked great for about 2 years now...

Yep. I just measured my fork springs and they are still about 3/4" longer than the service limit...so, I didn't mess anything up either ;D

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by WD on 10/07/07 at 09:45:17

My fork oil looked like old motor oil. Exactly like the 1974ish Pennzoil my grandfather used as storage oil in what is now my 1949 Dodge truck. Kind of a yellowish blue with bits of metal dust and carbon chunks, a few larger metal chips, and man, what a smell...

I pulled the forks, removed the springs and let the forks sit upside down over a drainpan. Over night.

Refilled the forks with Dexron 2 ATF. Improved feel, very smooth action, no more serious rain groove tracking. And, the minor seal leak went away.

Still wishing I had done a flush with acetone, MEK or something similar though...
-WD

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Odar on 10/14/07 at 13:55:04

Greg that synthetic fork oil you show in the picture is that sae 10, I cant find any synthetic fork oil that have higher figures then 10 then its all mineral fork oil for sae 15-30 and I want at least 15 or higher?
Do you think that is going to be even softer with the sae 10.
I have made spacers for 4 cm at bottom damper to lower my bike and then I going to cut the top spacer 2,5 cm, so I have some extra preload but if I put in a lower sae oil then it might be softer anyway, any thoughts about this with synthetic oil or mineral?
Odar

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/14/07 at 14:34:20

Odar wrote:

The oil that I just used is 15W. Same brand. Is that what you mean?

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Odar on 10/14/07 at 22:15:41

Yes Greg that was what I meant, now that I zoomed you picture I saw that on your bench was a bottle of racing forkfluid 15w, I have been to several MC stores and all they got is forkfluid 2,5w - 10w and I wonder how big difference it might be if I go down from 15w to 10 w, my plan was to increas the preload with a thicker vicositet of the forkfluid.

Odar

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/15/07 at 07:57:49

Odar wrote:

The back of the bottle has all kinds of specs on a reference table for different fluids, but honestly I only barely understand it. I'll try to photograph it today and post it for you.

I put 10W in my spouse's Savage because I had it for a different bike, but it was a real improvement over the old stock crap that was in there.

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by bill67 on 10/15/07 at 08:10:22

I think you should stick with the 15 weight with slippery oil it might bob up and down to much with 10 weight and, parts are worn a little too. unless you think the fork is stiff I think they are about right.

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/15/07 at 08:18:47

I'll post the specs for the oil. That synthetic oil states various equivalences to other weight non-synthetic oils.

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by LANCER on 10/15/07 at 10:09:35

Before I replaced my stock forks with the Ceriani's I was using 20W Amsoil fork oil...good stuff, very smooth and and noticeably firmer in its action from top to bottom.

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/15/07 at 21:14:21

LANCER wrote:

Before I replaced my stock forks with the Ceriani's I was using 20W Amsoil fork oil...good stuff, very smooth and and noticeably firmer in its action from top to bottom.

Might be the same kinda thing. Our forks feel pretty good now. I have 15W and the Spouse has 10W.

(the guy at the shop asked me if I REALLY wanted that weight, and I said that it was for a street bike. He said, okay)

Odar, here are the specs on the back even though I don't know what it means :P If you right click on it, I think that you can view it larger too...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/ForkOil_Spec_1.jpg

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by klx650sm2002 on 10/16/07 at 02:58:13

KLX runs 7.5/10 (7.5 std.) but i think she gets away with it cos she has 11" of suspension travel.
Off road bikes I think use 2.5-7.5
Clive W :D

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by Savage_Greg on 10/16/07 at 08:25:08

Can I get an English translation???

Title: Re: How's Your Fork Oil?
Post by govmule84 on 10/16/07 at 14:32:53

Thanks for the heads up on this topic. I'd been "forgetting" to do mine, and did it today...it rides wonderfully. I also bled the brakes, which I've also been neglecting, and between those two items, the bike literally feels like a whole different machine. Great pic, great post, great job getting me off my can!

-Liam