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Message started by Raleigh_TA on 09/22/07 at 07:34:40

Title: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by Raleigh_TA on 09/22/07 at 07:34:40

Newbie here again... 97 Savage, new rider, limited mechanical knowledge.

Thought it might be smart to change the oil as who knows when the previous owner did it last. So, I opened the drain plug and what a gusher! A couple of gallons of a gas/oil mix came out. I did a search on this site, and saw some discussion of petc0ck leakage getting through carb and into cylinder, seeping past ring, and into sump. This is the same bike that had an airbox full of gas/oil mix, and previous owner passed on the bike with no air filter element (got one now). I guess I should be amazed it ran at all, but I fear the cylinder may be pretty damaged due to poor lubrication for the hour or so of running time we have had.
My plan is to replace the oil filter and oil, and see how much the thing smokes when it fires up again. Until I replace the petc0ck, I think I'll clamp the fuel line when it is not in use as I think the thingy leaks no matter what position I leave it.

Opinions? Input?

Thanks, Russ

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by demin on 09/22/07 at 08:03:53

Petthingy would be my bet. ;)

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by Savage_Greg on 09/22/07 at 08:46:59

Dam...

Maybe the petc0ck, but stuck float is also possible.

Get a jar and switch petc0ck to ON or RES. Pull fuel line off carb and drain into jar. If fuel stops running (completely), switch over to PRI and it should start running again. Turn back to ON and it should stop again. Let it just hang there for a while to be sure.

Now pull the smaller hose off the right side of the carb near the engine. There should be NO gas in that line.

If both those check out good, try this...

Connect fuel line back to carb with petc0ck on PRI to fill float bowl. Find a piece of tubing and check the float level...it should not go higher than the bowl flange.

You can do this with black tubing too. You just to have to raise and lower the end to see at what height the fuel comes out of the tube.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/Carb_Float_Level.jpg

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by Dr_Jim on 09/22/07 at 09:08:01

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by Savage_Greg on 09/22/07 at 09:42:11

Ya know, that's a couple good points.

Love the ending too..."Cheers" :P

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by Raleigh_TA on 09/22/07 at 09:43:52

Outstanding responses guys! Thanks very much!!! I got my work cut out for me today. Thanks for the photo as well.
Russ

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by Robertomoe on 09/22/07 at 09:59:59

what are the symptoms of a flooded carb?

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by T-Mack1 on 09/22/07 at 10:08:08

If you're fearing cylinder wall damage, I suggest getting the compression checked.

Factory Serv Man
Spec: 142 to 200 psig, min 114 psig.

Flooded Carb systoms, leaking gas out the overflows and out the passages in the carb throat.

Flooded engine (slightly different) - gas smell out of the exhaust & wet (gas not oil) spark plug.

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by Raleigh_TA on 09/22/07 at 12:14:25

Just checked the petc0ck, pulled line from carb and it flowed in every position of the lever. Flowed at different rates in on vs res vs pr, but ran constantly. I let it go for a minute or two to see if it would stop, but no dice. I'll clamp it for now when the bike is not running.

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by verslagen1 on 09/22/07 at 12:18:35

sounds like the spring went soft or you gotta piece o'cr@p in there. Check out the petcork mod in the tech section for some insight on how to take it apart. Then either put it back together or do the mod.

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by Raleigh_TA on 09/22/07 at 13:20:22

Well, after changing the oil/filter, I cranked it up. It is smoking from behind the rear heat shield. I guessed it was residue from removing the oil filter cover. I tried to clean all I could get of that, and it looked pretty good. Then I sent the wife out for a ride. It is smoking from the same area very heavily. Any idea where the check for leaks?

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by Max_Morley on 09/22/07 at 14:53:18

Filter housing ! fix it first. Max

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/22/07 at 15:08:35

Might have gotten the O-ring in a pinch. Having those hanging in the garage is a good idea. Also, te o ring that goes on the filter itself is good to keep in some supply.

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by Savage_Greg on 09/22/07 at 15:49:27

Raleigh_TA wrote:

Okay. Petc0ck's bad. The first defense against overflow is supposed to be the float valve in the carb. The Petc0ck is just supposed to be the safety that cuts off the gas in case the float valve leaks.

So, how did the gas get in the engine? There are two ways. Does the float valve leak or did gas leak through the vacuum line to the carb (sounds pretty likely).

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by Raleigh_TA on 09/22/07 at 17:37:06

Savage_Greg wrote:

Does the float valve leak or did gas leak through the vacuum line to the carb (sounds pretty likely).

I checked the vacuum line, nothing came out of it, but I don't understand vacuum, so having the fuel line clamped may stop the flow in the vacuum line. The end of the vacuum line was slightly wet. Is that my clue?

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by T-Mack1 on 09/22/07 at 17:59:14

Raleigh_TA wrote:

but I don't understand vacuum,

The petc0ck has a "vacuum" switch. The engine creates vacuum (sucking...). The carb steals a little of that vacuum to run the switch. The switch is a piece of rubber that has a spring on one side and on the other is a piece of metal that seats against the opening going to the gas tank. The rubber "diaphragm" acts like a seal to keep the gas from going into the carb at a spot it shouldn't. It works when the engine runs, the vacuum going into the back of the petc0ck spring side, and pulls it back and the metal comes away from the opening to the tank , gas flows. Shut down the engine, the sucking is gone so the spring pushes the metal thing back and closes down the flow.

Why does it go bad......it's moving.......and new gas has additives that could attack the rubber.

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by Raleigh_TA on 09/22/07 at 18:03:58

Max_Morley wrote:

Filter housing ! fix it first. Max

http://
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/fenx/OilFilter.png
So you think the part number 4 or 7 is bad? I am not really seeing leakage, but will check in the AM. I used a non stock O ring for part #4 as the dealer was out, but the ring seemed snug.

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by Max_Morley on 09/22/07 at 19:10:21

#4 will leak as it is subject to pressurized oil. It is easy for it to slip out of the groove on reassembly and get cut or pinched and leak. My have all leaked on start up while on the rack so were easy to redo. I order the o-rings 6 at time so I always have them for oil changes or changing the oil after an unexpected repair. I've found that many of the o-rings used by both Suzuki and Kawasaki are not in my $50.00 metric assortment for whateve reason. I do have better luck going to the assortment when working on Honda's. If the bike has been drained and is now cooled off enough, some stout grease in the groove helps to hold the 0-ring in position until clamped in place. Max

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by Raleigh_TA on 09/23/07 at 08:25:11

Took the oil filter cover back off, used some steel wool to clean up the surface that the O ring contacts. I did not have a new O ring, so I gently pulled it out and cleaned up the groove it sits in. The ring appeared intact and I put everything back together. I used some carb cleaner to wash down the area of the crank case, pipe and heat shield to get rid of any leakage from this repair and old grease. I changed spark plugs as the one in it was fouled again (dry black soot).

The bike started and ran fine, but I am getting the same amount of smoke coming from behind the rear heat shield. I am planning to remove that shield when it cools and see if I can see a trail.

Title: Re: Drained oil, Gas came out!
Post by Max_Morley on 09/23/07 at 08:48:06

A suggestion, before you spend alot of time to R & R that heat shield as it is a terror. Use a flashight and mirror to see if it is just residual oil burning off. Black sooty plug is too much fuel for the amount of air, high fuel level, jet fell out of place, idle mixture screw too far open, air bleeds plugged in carb, air flilter plugged or liquid soaked, If you are running that sooty, may even be unburned fuel collecting in the low spot of the pipe to muffler attachment and soaking that gasket and burning off. Max