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Message started by hutch on 09/15/07 at 12:32:02

Title: Another no start
Post by hutch on 09/15/07 at 12:32:02

Took it for a 25-30 mile ride yesterday. Parked it. 2006 Never had a problem. Battery fully charged. I have tail/brake light, dash lights, Nuetral light and 4 ways. No headlight or turn signals when key is on, no decomp click or starter at all. Pulled seat and checked fuses, they are fine. Put 2 new fuses in, nothing. Kill switch is off, clutch is in, side stand down, in neutral..... nothing. Looks like it's time to start eliminating some "idiot" switches. Anyone have other ideas???? All those "safety" switches are a disaster waiting to happen anyway. I don't want to start ripping wires out on a bike I plan on selling. The next person to own it might need all that stupid stuff for his or her own safety. Any suggestions before I go on a mission to make the wiring simple like a motorcycle is suppose to be, and always used to be. I'm at a loss on this one. Where is the kickstart when you need it? I already tore the switch housing apart to look for broken wire to starter button, it looks fine. Back of bike has juice, but not the front. I checked all the wiring plug ins and they are tight. I guess the bike doesn't want to be sold. HELP!!!!!!!! Hutch

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by demin on 09/15/07 at 12:36:09

Kill switch is off? :-/.Check the plug for your left handlebar controls.I'm looking at an older wiring diagram there is a yellow/white wire that goes from dimmer switch. to kill switch

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by hutch on 09/15/07 at 17:17:03

demin wrote:

Kill switch is off? :-/.Check the plug for your left handlebar controls.I'm looking at an older wiring diagram there is a yellow/white wire that goes from dimmer switch. to kill switch

I unplugged the clutch switch and put in a jumper wire to bypass switch. Nothin, so I know it's not that switch and hooked it back up. It just seems like no juice is getting to the front of the bike. Even when the rear 4 ways work the front ones don't. The juice is getting to the 4 way switch on the right bar, but only going to the rear turnsignals. I don't own a tester to see if the juice is getting to the start button or not, but since the decomp won't work either I figure it isn't getting there, or it is, but not getting out to engage decomp or the starter. I hate electrical and being color blind sure doesn't help. That is why most of the bikes that I have owned over the years was rewired for simplicity. Like a toggle for lights coming off the battery. Same for the starter, push button right from the battery to starter. All you need to run a bike is about 5 or 6 wires. Why they put all the extra wire on there I have never figured out. All it does is make it more complicated and leaves you with more things to go wrong. I have a 2002 bike that had a wiring harness that looked like it belonged in an airplane. The bike cost 20K. The first time my son came over and seen me cut every wire off the bike and eliminate all the switches I though he was gonna have a heart attack. It now has 3 wires for the charging system, a toggle for the lights, a button on the end of the starter selenoid, and the wires for the electronic ignition. As soon as the electronic ignition dies(every bike has done it to me) I will put a magneto with points in it. I like simple and dependable, not to mention fixable on the side of the road. About 20 feet of wire will make any bike run. Why they put 200 feet of wire on them is beyond me. I guess I will just have to check all the plug ins again and look for broken broken wires. If I had a short the fuses would be toast. I don't know how wires just break or unplug themselves overnight from a normal shut off, but I can't think of anything else. I will also pull the left switch housing apart and look for the wire from the dimmer switch to the kill on the right bar. Thank you for the suggestion. I now have 2 bikes that ran great until I decided to sell them. I guess they just don't want to leave. For those of you who know my luck. Guess what, it aint changed. Hutch

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by demin on 09/15/07 at 17:21:40

Try the plug under the tank.That's the plug I was talking about.I hear ya about selling them.I was going to sell the '87 and do another one then everything started to hit the fan with it. ;D.If you look in the tech section there is a diagram for 5 and 6 wire systems to eliminate all the junk.

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by hutch on 09/15/07 at 19:24:53

demin wrote:

I saw that in the tech section. It seems I am not the only one who thinks there is a lot of useless wiring on these bikes for no good reason, other than to just make them more complicated. I hate to start ripping on it when I plan on selling. Most people want all that junk on a bike, and kind of frown on one that has been rewired. Of course those people take their bike to the dealer to get fixed. I never have in over 40 years. If they are set up simple they fix real simple. Nothing mechanical bugs me when it breaks. Electrical drives me nuts. The fewer wires, the easier to find the problem. If I was keeping the bike the harness would already be on the floor and half rewired the simple way. Such is not the case however. Thanks for your help and it looks like I drain and pull the tank tomorrow, since I have one that will not come off with the fuel tap attached to it, NO MATTER WHAT ANYBODY SAYS, IT'S A FACT. Hutch

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by demin on 09/15/07 at 20:19:31

Gotta love that good QC at Suzuki.They can't even make all the frames to the same specs.I was lucky on the '87 I have to pull the head it actually comes out without moving the whole motor around.

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by sluggo on 09/15/07 at 20:54:19

demin wrote:

Gotta love that good QC at Suzuki.They can't even make all the frames to the same specs.I was lucky on the '87 I have to pull the head it actually comes out without moving the whole motor around.

it's the tanks that are different. they are a sub assembly made in dozens of little shops around the country. i stumbled across one of them in japan years ago. then i really started looking around, and alot of stuff is done that way. so tolerances do vary as will you milage. it explains why there is such a diffenrence between machines of running before they hit reserve.

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/15/07 at 20:55:39

This is going to sound like a very stupid question, and please don't take it wrong, but is the ignition key turned to start or "P"?

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by demin on 09/15/07 at 20:59:37

Yeah I was just refering to my manual saying the frames aren't the same.For pulling the the topend.,and pulling gastank off.You know simple as that seems good point about the ignition I've done that.

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by islandwahine on 09/15/07 at 21:08:37

hutch wrote:

looks like I drain and pull the tank tomorrow, since I have one that will not come off with the fuel tap attached to it, NO MATTER WHAT ANYBODY SAYS, IT'S A FACT. Hutch

Don't worry I won't disagree, mine doesn't come off either without removing the petcork.

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by barry68v10 on 09/16/07 at 03:51:48

I don't know for sure if mine will come off with the petc0ck on, but after about 5 minutes of twisting and tugging, I found it was FAR simpler to just remove the 2 screws and drop it. From here on in for me, the petc0ck comes off if I have to remove the tank.

For the no start problem, try the starter switch. Jump that one to verify it isn't the problem. Then I'd test the decomp and starter individually on the outside chance you've had dual failure. Normally, I'd rule that out, but for you Hutch... :-)

Let us know what you've got from there...

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by skrapiron on 09/16/07 at 07:54:46

YonuhAdisi wrote:

This is going to sound like a very stupid question, and please don't take it wrong, but is the ignition key turned to start or "P"?

I just verified that myself.

The ignition switch has three set positions. 'Off' 'Run' and 'P' Off and Run are self explainatory

'P' is there to allow you to run the rear lights without burning the headlight (if you have a break down and need to use your 4 ways to alert traffic)

I was able to replicate your problem by placing my key in the 'P' position (2 click up from off)

Headlight is off, tail light works, 4 ways work, no start....

Check your key position before you go tearing any wires out....

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by hutch on 09/16/07 at 09:44:54

YonuhAdisi wrote:

This is going to sound like a very stupid question, and please don't take it wrong, but is the ignition key turned to start or "P"?

The key is in the start position, all the way back is park. I will let you know when I dig into it again what I find. I have just had one of the worst months in a long time for as far as everything going wrong. I don't want to even get near the bike for fear of smashing something. When I finaly went to sleep last night about 3 oclock I dreamed I rolled the Savage out in the back yard, shot the gas tank full of 9mm holes and threw a road flare on it and watched it burn. Then I walked in the garage and looked at the rest of my bikes and said "Which one of you SOB's want to mess with me next?" Yeah it's been a great last month. Can't you tell by my attitude? As Popeye would say...."That's all I can stands, and I can't stands no more!!!" Hutch

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by demin on 09/16/07 at 11:23:27

Must be the season you're not the only one. The '86 needs a cam chain tensioner,and the head cap plug.The'87 started out needing the plug now it needs a Heli-coil in the cylinder.Harley has been 4 year project.So yeah I know what you're feeling. ;D

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by drums1 on 09/16/07 at 15:54:47

4 ways? Good lord, are the rears supposed to light up like tailights too? Mine don't. The front ones do, and all the blinkers work, but I have nothing in the rear except the brake light. I've seen other bikes at night with only the brakelight/tailight and assumed it was that way on mine too. What the heck?

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by WD on 09/16/07 at 16:17:26

S40s have 4 way flashers like a car. Savages don't. Your's is exactly the way it was meant to be. If you want the rear signals to be running lights, you have to replace the housings with ones made to run dual filament bulbs (or modify your existing ones with new pigtails), you have to run red lenses, and you will want one of the run turn brake control boxes. You'll be more visible, but it will cost you some extra sweat equity and a bit of cash.
-WD

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by drums1 on 09/16/07 at 16:29:56

oh good. I think I'll just leave it as is. Thanks for the info.

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by Trippah on 09/16/07 at 20:48:22

Hutch- sincere wishes for a better Autumn. So that you don't feel alone, Suzi is still without exhaust from header on back- she's been resting for two months now as I try to open a new business- no money honey is all I hear. Not the sweet sound of Thumper. >:(

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by stinger on 09/17/07 at 00:41:17

Hutch, I had a problem awile back where my bike would do absoultly nothing when I tried to start it. I checked everything and then found the problem to be the bolt under the kickstand. If its loose, the kickstand sensor wont allow the bike to start. Im sure you have probably already checked it, but it was the last place I looked. it drove me nuts!

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by hutch on 09/17/07 at 06:52:27

stinger wrote:

Stinger, thanks for the idea. No I haven't got near the bike for a day. Safer for the bike. I would never even have thought of a loose kickstand bolt. I'm an old timer and they didn't have all this safety crap back then. If you weren't smart enough to start it in nuetral or put it in nuetral before putting the kick stand down and letting out the clutch, you didn't belong on a bike in the first place. I will check that bolt out FIRST as soon as I can get near the bike and not call it names. Thanks again!!! Hutch

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by hutch on 09/17/07 at 15:54:51

AH!!! I feel much better. No I didn't get the Savage problem solved. I still was grumbling at it when I walked by,so I left it alone. I just been doing to much wrenching and not enough riding. It finally got over 60 degrees today so I got my minimum daily requirement of force fed fresh air. If I could find a state with miles and miles of trees, lots of hills and twisty river roads, I would be tempted to move there. All the states that I found like that while traveling always had one bad thing attached, WINTER. I hate flat boring greenless scenery, more than I hate winter. Give me a state with 60 degree and above weather 365 days a year, and all the above mentioned criteria, and I would be happy. Don't mention Hawaii, I would be driving in circles all day. ANY SUGESTIONS???? It's suppose to be in the 70's and above for a week here in MI, so I will be in the mood to work on the Savage by the end of the week. and will let you know what I find out about the no start problem. Hutch

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/17/07 at 19:21:05

It does freeze in Arkansas, but the place is gorgeous. Hot Springs is a good investment IMO. Besides, we really like to vacation there, Get a place with a cabin & we will rent from ya at least once a year tillw e are sick of Arkansas, so, we will rent for a lot of years.

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by hutch on 09/17/07 at 20:09:03

I like Washington, Oregon, Montanna, Both Dakotas, MN, WI, love eastern Kentucky, but all too cold. Might as well stay where I am. Arkansas is one place I haven't been. How is the humidity? I don't care how cold it gets at night as long as I can get at least to 60 degrees during the day. I always hated winter anyway, but 1000mgs of blood thinners a day make it unbearable. It is 72 degrees in my house right now and I have a flannel shirt on. It would really take a lot for me to move, since I have been in the same area for 56 years, and was actually born in the house I live in. Not to mention the fact that my grave stone is already waiting for me 2 miles from my house, next to mom and dads and all my older neighbors. Hutch

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/17/07 at 21:31:05

Dude, maybe UPS wont take ya home, but you can live where ya want & die where you are happy & be buried where you want to be. Look into Ark. weather. I can say, but the place is sure pretty & is ( I think) the most Southern state with that kind of scenery. Maybe going a bit further South in Arkansas would get rid of some of the cold,

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by skrapiron on 09/18/07 at 05:03:34

Western NC or North western SC.

Anywhere from Asheville south to Greenville.

Some of the most BEAUTIFUL mountain roads I have ever ridden.

Temperate climate (low humidity, mid to upper 80s in the summer, lows in the 40s in the winter ver little snow or ice)

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/18/07 at 07:59:01

What part of Western SC are you saying is low humidity? I used to live in Williston SC and as soon as I would take a shower then step outside, five minutes later I would need another one because of how bad the humidity was.

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by hutch on 09/18/07 at 08:34:56

skrapiron wrote:

That is one other state that I forgot to mention as a favorite. Definately the western side of either. I didn't drive semi thru there in the winter, so I was in the dark as far as cold weather. Definately beautiful countryon the west side. I could picture a log home on the side of a hill way back then. My township woudn't let me build the log home across the road that I had the package of half paid for. Not enough living space they said. What they really meant was not enough taxable base for them. So here I set in my family 2 story farm house, with the upstairs closed off sleeping on the couch, paying a lot of taxes and setting the thermostat at 67 degrees in the winter cause I can't afford to heat it any warmer. I just wear a flannel shirt in the house all winter. Yes 6.66 acres of my own private he!! You got to love my luck. Hutch

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by hutch on 09/18/07 at 08:40:53

Trippah wrote:

That's a bummer. This is why I HAVE to have more than one bike. Winter is bad enough, let alone not riding when it is nice. Hutch

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by hutch on 09/20/07 at 15:50:56

I found the "no start" problem, and can't believe what it was. After getting the tank off, there it was. Now keep in mind that I drove the bike in the garage and shut it off. The next time I went to start it, nothing. The main conection for the big wiring harness that goes to the handlebars was unpluged. Not just slightly either. It was about an inch out and hanging down 2 inches along side the frame. I haven't got a clue. I think I need a Gremlin bell. Hutch

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by Dr_Jim on 09/20/07 at 16:08:30

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by Trippah on 09/20/07 at 19:39:21

I also loved my short time in the Carolinas, with mountains and ocean and lotsa good stuff in between; and not too much snow (there was one trip to grandfather mountain that was slippery :D),
glad the mystery "death" was solved; now your ready for prime time Autumn riding season. Have fun.

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by hutch on 09/20/07 at 20:07:31

I just once again wanted to thank everyone for their suggestion on the "no start". Dr Jim, don't feel like an idiot, it was probably a natural safety mechanism you aquired over the years to help you forget the bad things that happened to you. Hutch

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by Soon on 10/30/07 at 18:34:55

I am going to try to ride all winter long up here in ME. It sure gets cold here. Any one put studs on the Ls650cc? I have been riding around in 36f up to 54f up here, any thing from 40f and up is ok not to bad. Plus it is the only ride I have. Not car!

Soon

Zoom Soon

Title: Re: Another no start
Post by Soon on 10/30/07 at 18:36:22

Ooops my last post I posted it in the wrong spot

Soon