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Message started by shovelshort on 09/03/07 at 12:08:02

Title: Will not always turn over
Post by shovelshort on 09/03/07 at 12:08:02

New member because of problems I am having with my wife's 1987 Savage.

When I hit the start button the bike will not always turn over. I do hear the decompression selenoid bang every time and it pulls the cable fine and returns to normal position.

Battery is fine. Starter is fine. Had both checked at local auto shop. Replaced starter selenoid with a new one. Tested the decompression control unit in both portions. Timer I only shows 10.8v instead of 12v. Timer II only shows 11 volts instead of 12v. I tested it with a battery charger set at 12v, so it could just be the charger only putting out 11v, not sure.

Bike push starts and runs fine. What am I missing? ???Bad ground? All switch relays have to be good or the decompression selenoid would not kick in every time.

Also want to make sure I hooked up starter selenoid correctly. Clymer book does not show correct wiring.

Title: Re: Will not always turn over
Post by islandwahine on 09/03/07 at 12:29:13

Don't know much about this kind of trouble but my bike did something similar for a while too, sometimes it would start sometimes not ,bad fuse. Then I ended up finding a major short which caused a bunch of blown fuses.
It might not be your problem but I guess it can't do any harm to check the fuses.

Title: Re: Will not always turn over
Post by shovelshort on 09/03/07 at 12:47:46

I did have a problem with blowing fuses, but found it to be a bad turn signal relay and replaced it. No more blown fuses.

Title: Re: Will not always turn over
Post by islandwahine on 09/03/07 at 12:54:20

I'm sorry I am just as dumbfounded as you are then :-[

Title: Re: Will not always turn over
Post by demin on 09/03/07 at 13:51:13

I was just looking in my clymers manual.I'm thinking possibly starter relay if you replaced soleniod.Because relay gets it's power from the solenoid.

Title: Re: Will not always turn over
Post by thumperclone on 09/03/07 at 14:45:29

1 st what are you checking voltage with ? battery charger? on the 87 wiring diagram from the ssm there is an unfused wire from the pos of the battery(no color given assume red)to the starter relay(# 10 awg or larger ?)from the relay to the starter with a paralell y/b going to(via a plug in connector) the left most connection of the solenoide controller..other side of starter is ground would assume same gauge as red from battery(this may be loose and causing your headache)
from left to right (in diagram)at the controller colors are:
y/b,b/r,r/w,y/g,b/w.. 2 other wires at starter relay:
via plug connector y/b,b/w...
hope this helps i do have a scanner and can try to e mail diagram but wont be back from up mountain till friday...

Title: Re: Will not always turn over
Post by shovelshort on 09/03/07 at 15:44:12

I think the starter relay is built into the starter selenoid.

Title: Re: Will not always turn over
Post by demin on 09/03/07 at 15:50:24

I could be wrong,but I think it bolts on the rear fender behind the air box.And the solenoid controller is under the tank.

Title: Re: Will not always turn over
Post by Kropatchek on 09/04/07 at 03:09:58

shovelshort wrote:

I think the starter relay is built into the starter selenoid.

Sorry, there's NO starter solenoid, only the relay.
The relay should be energized by the decompression control unit, timer 2.

Title: Re: Will not always turn over
Post by shovelshort on 09/04/07 at 07:28:26

I checked voltage with a volt meter and supplied power via a battery charger set at 12v since I don't have a spare battery to use other than what is on the bike.

Ok folks, according to the Clymer manual, what's under the gas tank is the decompression selenoid. What's under the seat, Clymer calls the starter selenoid. According to the wiring diagram, however, the starter selenoid and the starter relay are two seperate units. I believe the starter selenoid and starter relay are one in the same since it has four wire connections to it.

I believe that my problem is either the second stage of the timer control unit doesn't work every time (it was just chance when I checked it that it worked, but puts out less voltage), the second starter selenoid/relay I put in is also bad, or I simply have a bad wire/contact somewhere between the timer control and the starter. I hope it is not the starter selenoid because it was a %$&*# to replace. Not much room. Had to drop the rear fender to get to the mounting bolts.

I got on here hoping that someone has had the same problem and was able to remedy it. I hoped that this was a common problem to be truthful.

Title: Re: Will not always turn over
Post by drums1 on 09/04/07 at 18:32:59

I am having that same problem, as we type. '87 Savage. I checked the relay--it was good. I checked the starter--it was good. I checked all the wires to and from--they all seem good. It seems to happen more when engine is hot, like if I run to store and when I come out--click click click. It makes me angry. Once it finally kicks in and cranks, it runs fine.
I'll be watching this thread closely for possible solutions.

Title: Re: Will not always turn over
Post by Max_Morley on 09/04/07 at 18:50:05

I've been driving my B-i-L's 88 while waiting for a part for my 96. It seems to start differently than mine. I know his battery is marginal and that may be the biggest part of the problem. However I feel the source may be in the crank switch contacts -the button you push to start if you will. In any series circuit, high resistance in any one point causes voltage problems up and down the circuit. If the contacts are pitted, or corroded or both then they decrease the voltage available to operate the starter controls, compression release solenoid and starter relay. (FWIW magnetic switches = relays and solenoids are similar, however solenoids usually involve the moving plunger doing more than just making an electrical contact. in our case the solenoid plunger pulls up on the lever to lift the exhaust valve part way off its seat lowering the compression so the engine will spin up quicker. The relay just completes the circuit from the battery + to the starter motor terminal w/o all those amps going through the little switch) Might be worth taking apart the switch on the handle bar and clean and polish the contacts. Max

Title: Re: Will not always turn over
Post by shovelshort on 09/05/07 at 07:56:51

Fixed it last night. It was the decompression control unit. The timer II was bad in it. I comfirmed this by when I tapped it, the bike would turn over, so I went to the dealership and picked up a new one that I had ordered several days ago. All is fine, and the wife is happy again.

Title: Re: Will not always turn over
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/05/07 at 09:11:03

Welll Awwright!