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Message started by rigidchop on 08/26/07 at 17:46:54

Title: white spacer ?
Post by rigidchop on 08/26/07 at 17:46:54

i did the white spacer mod and when i turn the screw the idle didn't come up as much as i thought it should. i 'm gettin more black smoke than before. i'm thinking i'll just put the spacer back and see what happens. oh and i have a 155 jet and a sceaming eagle muffler.

Title: Re: white spacer ?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/26/07 at 19:29:27

After all the messing around in the carb & exhaust & air filter, I finally went back in & added back enough stuff to put the white spacer back within .010 of original. These things just don't all play the same. I have a Supertrapp with 14 disks & a 150 main with a K&N drop in air filter. It's still not lean. But, it's not sooting things up like it was.

Moral? Just because yours isnt acting like others doesnt mean you are doing anything wrong.

Title: Re: white spacer ?
Post by cowboyupdjcarl on 08/26/07 at 20:18:38

My wifes has been ALL BLACK SOOT since I swapped the muffler!

I now have a 155 and 2/3rds the white spacer.
STILL all black!

Now I am gonna go in the opposite direction!

LEAN IT OUT!!

Title: Re: white spacer ?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/26/07 at 21:57:48

What muffelr you got ? What is your elevation? A 155 had me spewing soot. Even the 152.5 was too rich.

Title: Re: white spacer ?
Post by rigidchop on 08/27/07 at 06:20:51

i am at 620 ft. the muffler is a screaming eagle? slash cut, it pops way worse than before and looks like a diesel truck with all the soot.

Title: Re: white spacer ?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/27/07 at 06:57:57

MMMkay, Reason I asked is there are some here who understand jetting so well they even know how elevation affects it. Me? I can only sometimes remember the general rule & today isnt one of the days.. sorry. NOw, wheres the local Carb Gurus?

Title: Re: white spacer ?
Post by mark_k on 08/27/07 at 06:59:51

Since most riding is between 1/4 and 3/4 throttle, you might check and make sure the slide needle is moving. It doesn't take much to make it stick, and if it sticks in the opened position (ie doen't want to drop down), it would make things very rich for most of the throttle range.

Maybe Lancer can weigh in on this one.
PS: He has a very good thread in the Technical Reference section on carb tuning that helped me trmendously.

Title: Re: white spacer ?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/27/07 at 07:22:16

OHH, Pops worse? And runs rich? Sounds like its leaking air into the pipe.

Title: Re: white spacer ?
Post by serowbot on 08/27/07 at 10:54:28

620ft is not very high and shouldn't make you that rich (usually a one step decrease every 2000 to 2500ft), but temperature and humidity also effect jetting. If the backfire is worse on hot, humid days, you are rich. Rich conditions can cause backfire just as easily as lean. The black smoke is definite rich.

In general...

thinner air = go leaner (Barometric pressure decrease)

hotter air = go leaner
more humidity = go leaner
higher altidude = go leaner

thicker air = go richer (Barometric pressure increase)

cooler air = go richer
less humid = go richer
lower altitude = go richer

Title: Re: white spacer ?
Post by rigidchop on 08/28/07 at 16:35:14

i put the spacer back in, still runnin rich. i put the stock pipe back on. runs well at idle and at speed, has a hesitation down low. also i have an exhaust leak and the header pipe gasket? is missing. will have to wait till i get back from chillicothe. (riding my chop there, not the savage, i don't want to do any damage to it) gonna take the carb out after i get back and give it a good soaking. runs way to rich though.

Title: Re: white spacer ?
Post by serowbot on 08/28/07 at 18:45:04

You're gonna' pop a lot with the exhaust leaks, but I also think the #155 main might be rich. Double check the petc0ck vacuum line, and is your air filter clean? Is it stock or free breathing?

Title: Re: white spacer ?
Post by rigidchop on 09/02/07 at 18:09:54

air filter clean, and already replaced the vacuum line. gonna have to take it slow on fixing it though, need a clutch cable now too. it will get done, just gonna be longer than expected. money is tight.

Title: Re: white spacer ?
Post by cowboyupdjcarl on 09/06/07 at 19:06:21

Instead of cutting the white spacer... I bought 2 lock washers that fit PERFECTLY on the needle.
Flattened them out with a pair of needle nose.

The bike was running WAY RICH before this.
I had replaced the muffler with a stock straight through HD muffler. changed the main to a 155.

That dang thing was ALL BLACK SMOKE all over the brake lever and rear tire!

I did the washer/spacer replacement to about 2/3 of the plastic one. added a different muffler and it SUCKED!! The muffler blued INSTANTLY at the baffle part. It was still blowing black smoke! and popping BAD!

So now I went back down to the 145 and kept the 2/3 spacer, raised the idle and adjusted the mixture screw. Doesn't seem to pop at the moment. Now I am going back to the HD muffler as it stays chrome!

Will let you know!

Title: Re: white spacer ?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/08/07 at 14:04:57

The spacer has to fit inside the tube , not lay across it. I messed that UP! In other words, your new spacer cant have a larger diameter than the stock one.

Title: Re: white spacer ?
Post by barry68v10 on 09/08/07 at 15:31:35

I wouldn't recommend changing the white spacer thickness AND changing jets at the same time. If the main jet doesn't show signs of being too lean at WOT I wouldn't change it. The most common problem with the Savage seems to be lean conditions up to about 1/2 throttle. The tendancy seems to be to go way too rich right off the bat and then slowly try to bring it back closer to stoichiometric as reliability problems begin to pop up...

Title: Re: white spacer ?
Post by LANCER on 09/08/07 at 17:26:35

If you have any questions at all about carb function then you definitely want to only do 1 thing at a time, that way you know what has caused what.
Before initiating jetting/tuning you must be sure the exhaust system has no air leaks, otherwise you cannot be sure if any backfiring is from the exhaust or carb problems.
Work on one carb circuit at a time. Do the low range (pilot), then midrange (needle), then the high range(main jet).
Be sure you understand what you are doing and why, it will help you avoid a LOT OF FRUSTRATION and save a lot of time redoning the jetting over and over again.

Title: Re: white spacer ?
Post by Hell, Billy on 09/08/07 at 17:44:59

Might want to look at the header flange as it sits in the head, mine wasn`t anywhere near flat. There was a cresent moon of blue coloration on the lip of the welded on collar. I carefully flattened it with some 220 W/D paper on a steel block til it really was flat. Exhaust leaks really enhance the popping.

WB