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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Cranky mornings /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1186092868 Message started by skatnbnc on 08/02/07 at 15:14:28 |
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Title: Cranky mornings Post by skatnbnc on 08/02/07 at 15:14:28 I figure Suzi does not need coffee like I do in the morning, so I was hoping you all could help with a problem that has been occurring. Oil change is happening this weekend. It is dirty and it is time. Its hot here, about 90 daily and humid. In the morning its better, about 80. I ride to work daily, and run errands all day on the bike. Each morning I have this issue. Choke out, all systems go, battery good, starts up fine, no hesitation. Push choke back in, pull out of driveway. All good. Go to first street and add a little throttle, still in first gear. The bike repeatedly slightly hesitates, like its not getting gasoline. Go up in speed, still in first gear and it has afew times of slight power drop. Still able to accelerate, but there is a hiccup of power every few seconds - feels like she is going to lose power. Shift to second, and a few more 'bumps' and then - all good. Any higher gear is fine. Any riding after the first ride of the morning is fine. Once the engine is warm, no troubles. This past two weeks I have tried the following: I tried leaving the choke out for longer. I tried letting it warm up for 5 minutes in the driveway before pulling out. I tried warming up for TEN minutes. I tried staying in first longer and moving really slow to get oil circulating. Nothing changed the effect. So here are my thoughts - please feel free to chime in, refute and amend. Could there be sediment in there (anywhere) that settles at night, then gets stirred up at starting, causing this weird little power loss? Is something sticking at night and coming loose after warm up? Any other ideas? |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by forrest on 08/02/07 at 15:45:41 Mine does the same thing in the morning, not on the evening ride home, and if I keep the pet-thingy set for reserve it runs fine. I don't know technically why, but one of the gurus probably knows. |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by mark_k on 08/02/07 at 16:02:25 My 02 also does it, but since I changed out the pilot and reset the idle mixture it is much better. Only takes about a qtr mile to quit hesitating. Seems to be worse on very humid days, once past that first qtr mile it is fine. Didn't seem to matter whether choke was out it didn't cure it. May just be how it vaporizes the fuel. I don't suppose there is a fuel additive that is regional that could be causing the problem is there? |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by SavageDude on 08/02/07 at 16:18:23 Occasionally mine acted up like yours. I switch the petc*ck to PRIME and it run fine. My guess is the vaccum tube sometimes does not want to do it job or maybe in the morning the diaphram inside the petc*ck shrink a bit and got stuck. Hence it does not allow fuel to come down to the carb. At high speed, you have more vaccum from the engine. Therefore it overcomes the diaphram's stickiness. |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by Strafford_Guy on 08/02/07 at 16:36:31 My 96 has the same issue. First run of the day. As far as a local additive by looking at the profiles it seems we are all over the map. Seeing how we are all having this issue may be a "feature" of the bike. ;D I would like to hear from others and see if this is a common situation. Thanks |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by Arrow on 08/02/07 at 17:13:06 My '03 has the same wonderful 1st run of the day feature. Must just be another one of it's intresting quirks. ;D About the only time it doesn't do it is on a cold morning, under 15 degrees. Go figure, something do with fuel vaporization at a higher temp? |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by DepotMan on 08/02/07 at 17:35:13 My 07 does the same thing. Takes about 2 to 3 miles for the bike to run right. Only happens on the first run of the day. |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by forrest on 08/02/07 at 17:41:55 The temp in the am doesn't seem to be a factor for mine and since it acts up for at least the first 5+ miles I just leave it in reserve for the morn. |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by verslagen1 on 08/02/07 at 17:45:21 I start up with the choke out to the first notch just to get the idle up, I have a tach and know what idle speed is. In the mornings, it's 900 to 1k with the choke in. First knotch brings it up to 1100 to 12. Sometime I run to the end of the driveway and push it it, sometimes I go a couple of blocks. Certainly runs better at high rpm. When I got it pushed in from the driveway, it goes ok put it surges when I hold a steady speed. I remember reading here that shaving the white spacer had a positive effect on that. So, I need to check mine. I know I have a petc0ck problem as I have to run in reserve all the time or it will run out of gas at speed. I've replaced the vacuum line, I've had the petc0ck all apart, and found nothing. For the others who put it in reserve and problems goes away, You might be having the beginnings of my problem. But check the vacuum line and make sure it's good. My hose is new and tight, so I don't have clamps on yet. I might try that soon. I know my idle fluctuates with temperature. In the morn, it's slow. After the commute, it's fast 14 to 15. And I can tell it's cooling down, when I hit the driveway it's 11 to 12. My mornings are a perfect 70 right now. Great time to be cased up in ATGATT. The evening commute is 90 and I'm doing the 7/70 airconditioning when ever I can. So my guess is... idle up a bit. And check you vac line. ;D |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by skatnbnc on 08/02/07 at 18:07:36 You all have been VERY HELPFUL! Seriously! :) I was getting worried that my bike about to fall apart in some mysterious way. Tomorrow morning I will try PRI and/or RES instead of the usual setting and see if that makes a difference. I did check all the flexible lines tonight just to be sure, and everything is tight and clamped. After reading the posts about the summer stickiness, this came to mind. It has been very humid and sticky for the same time that I have had this problem. In fact, when a cold front came through last month and dropped the humidity to zero for two days, the bike ran perfectly in the morning. Ahh hah moment... |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by skrapiron on 08/02/07 at 18:28:22 Mine did the same thing as well. ON a cold start, it just felt like it was surging... Getting some gas, then none at all, then gas again. On mine, I removed the idle mixture screw plug and dialed my ide mix to about 2.5 turns out. Additionally, I pulled the cas tank and opened the carb. At the bottom of the diaphragm assm is the plate that holds the needle valve in place. I removed mine and sanded the white spacer down by about 1/3 of the original thickness. Since I did the two tuning mods, I haven't had to use the choke once to get the bike going. I start it up and let it idle while I get my gear on and then go riding. The surging is almost completely gone, as well as mcuh of the notorious backrfire. I have to get on the throttle pretty hard to hear it bark anymore. Anyway, the spacer mod worked wonders for me. It's something to consider... |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by TVR on 08/02/07 at 18:35:32 Mine does that as well. Letting it idle for a little longer helps after startup. Also change to PRI and ride for a while and then switch back...no problems. |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by youzguyz on 08/03/07 at 04:03:05 Same symptoms here. 1st ride of day only. I am pretty convinced mine is the petthingy, as it died completely on me once (for the 1st time, which gave me the famous "rut ro" feeling). Switched to PRI, started up ok. Switched back a few blocks later.. and all was fine. I'm going to try the PRI as well on my next 1st ride. I thought RES still used the vacuum line? |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by skatnbnc on 08/03/07 at 06:25:53 It's 85 and so humid that you cannot see all the way down a street through the haze. I tried putting the PetC on RES first this morning and that didn't do squat. Turned it over to PRI at the first stop sign, and had better luck. Not perfect, but better. Got a little nervous leaving it on PRI, so I switched it after about 2 miles back to FUEL. Will continue this for a week and report back. I think it's too early to tell after just one try. |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by mornhm on 08/03/07 at 07:04:40 Might be that the fuel is leaking or evaporating out of the carb bowl while sitting overnight. Putting the Petc0ck selector to prime allows gravity to fill the bowl (especially if you wait a couple of seconds before firing the engine) otherwise you have to wait until vacuum fills the bowl - might look for a vacuum leak also because putting the selector to reserve gives more static pressure head in the fuel tank. So if reserve helps, see if having a full tank helps. If it only happens in the morning, I'd suspect a vacuum leak combined with warmer weather causing more evaporation. A little more idle speed often helps (covers up) small vacuum leaks. |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by T-Mack1 on 08/03/07 at 10:17:49 Let us know how it goes. Here's another thought to follow. Battery!!! Here's why, When you first start the bike in the morning, oil is cool, gas vapors are out of the intake and it take's a little more amps to crank the bike. Usually the battery voltage drops a tiny bit, lets say to 10 or 11 volts or so. Well, it's a CDI bike. Until you get the battery back up to voltage it will be a little bit "cranky". I had a very old Jeep that did the same thing unitl I upgraded the charging system. I had thought it was the carb and had rebuilf it twice. So, here's an easy experiment, this weekend, jump start the bike with another battery or from a car. Then go for a quick ride to see if it is still "cranky". If it is, then it's not the battery voltage. If it is NOT..., then clean all the clean-able wiring connection on the charging system. Check the water level in battery too. Always try the easy things first!!! |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by oldman on 08/03/07 at 13:15:18 I've had sticky sliders cause similiar problems. Add a little Sea Foam to the next couple of tanks before you start working on it . It will help clean up the fuel system, which nevers hurts. |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by forrest on 08/03/07 at 17:28:58 Oldman, Gotta admitt my ignorance..........what is "sea foam," other than something I saw a lot of in the Navy? |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by oldman on 08/03/07 at 18:28:32 What is Sea foam? well I tell you it's just about the most wonderful stuff around it'll remove warts cure the common cold relieve pain from arthritus and gout even clears ups acne. Actually I lied it doesn't do any of those things, but it does an excellent job of cleaning out your fuel system . It's the best I tried. I'm not sure who in your area handles it, O'Reilly's in Texas and I'm sure other parts stores handle it because nearly everyone on the Magna owners forum uses it. Here it's about $8.00 a can and worth every penny of it. And no I don't own stock in Sea Foam ;D |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by forrest on 08/03/07 at 18:57:57 Thanks, I'll give it shot next fill up. |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by Savage_Rob on 08/03/07 at 19:03:13 forrest wrote:
http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUpTechGas.htm |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by TVR on 08/04/07 at 13:59:51 Is that mail order only Rob? I don't recall seeing it in my normal haunts. |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by forrest on 08/04/07 at 14:14:20 Savage_Rob, do you use it? |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by mark_k on 08/04/07 at 17:00:51 In Indy you can get Sea Foam at Advance Auto, Auto Zone, WalMart, and NAPA stores. Comes in a white can with red letters. I agree, it is about the most amazing stuff I have ever seen. It is a great end of season additive and I use it routinely in all my small engines (lawnmowers, tillers, etc.) first tank of the spring. Almost never have a problem cranking up at first one or two pulls on the starter rope or revs of motor on starters. |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by Savage_Rob on 08/04/07 at 18:09:12 I just get it at Autozone. It's like using a fuel treatment/fuel system cleaner. I also add it to to the 5 gallon gas can I keep in the garage because I only use that can for every 2nd or 3rd tankful and it's also a fuel stabilizer similar to Sta-Bil. |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by BigWes on 08/04/07 at 18:28:27 seriously, i just noticed this same problem last night on my 95 savage. I kept thinking it was running outta gas but that wasnt the problem. It happens to my bike with temps are between 30-45degrees and the bike has been sitting for more than 2 hours. Now that we have establisished that it seems normal, i will not worry so much. thanks all, this site rules |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by TVR on 08/05/07 at 12:31:13 Savage_Rob wrote:
I'll play closer attention. Never noticed it before. Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by Thumpin on 08/13/07 at 10:56:35 I have a different Idea for you. I have asinilar problem but because I also have a probloem w/ rough running in rain I got to spraying water into all sorts of odd places. To make a long investigation short I finally concluded that the problem was centered around the two large diameter rubber hoses that come out of the carb. One from the Air box to the carb the other from the carb to the engine. Lo and behold when I checked the hose bands were not what I would call tight. After tightening them up good and snug both the rought mornings and rough rain performance problem appear to have been nixed. I will update after my first mobile 60 mph bath as to if this has really worked, but so far so good on both issues. |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by skatnbnc on 08/14/07 at 06:38:15 Update. It has been a 'little' warm here, so I have tried the PRI to start inthe mornings, and noticed a difference. Not completely eliminating the hesitation, but better. Then the heat wave broke with one day of gorgeous 87 and zero humidity. I rode out that day and never even had a hiccup. Today, it is humid again, and the hesitation is back. So, I am inclined to believe it is the humidity factor causing this issue, and setting the petC to PRI helps reduce the effect. But my question would be to those on the forum who are mechanically minded ~ is it that diaphram acting up in the morning? |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by Savage_Rob on 08/14/07 at 06:57:40 skatnbnc wrote:
I can see where such might be cause for one to be cranky but I'm not sure this is the appropriate venue for the airing of such a personal matter. |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by youzguyz on 08/14/07 at 07:03:12 Going to PRI didn't help my problem with hesitation very much. What did help, was leaving the choke at the 1st indent. Leads me to believe that I need to back out the idle air screw about 1/4 turn or so. (I'll give it a try the next time I manage to get out). Or just run with the choke on for a couple miles. |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by skatnbnc on 08/14/07 at 09:34:45 Savage_Rob wrote:
Rob - if you ain't heard it all on this forum by now, then you ain't a Thumper rider! ;D |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by TVR on 08/16/07 at 15:43:21 Savage_Rob wrote:
:D "I don't care who ya are, that there's funny" - LTCG |
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Title: Re: Cranky mornings Post by grandpa on 08/16/07 at 19:16:13 My '06 has always needed the first notch to run without stumbling until it warmed up for a few miles. Since I rejetted it's not as bad. Have thought about taking another 25% off the spacer. Have great mileage, performance and a text book looking plug. Keep telling myself that if it ain't broke don't fix it. Chokes are there for a reason. I figure I have the right combo when warm so what's with a little choke for a couple of miles!! |
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