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Message started by YonuhAdisi on 07/29/07 at 13:00:33

Title: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/29/07 at 13:00:33

Okay, I was heading home from work last night when the FireLizard suddenly died, I tried to crank it back up and heard an awful grinding noise, somehow though I managed to fire it back up anyway and rode home.

Well, I just took the case apart and found this. I am very surprised I made it home at all last night.

http://a649.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/96/l_1e31baee2f4b6d813b14613f6703f058.jpg

http://a641.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/101/l_3c9fe6fe0b804519e786a7f095753618.jpg

As you can see, one of the springs is in the crank gear and the other spring was found in the cover, and the tensioner is all the way out and seperated.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/29/07 at 13:25:45

Upon further inspection, I can't even do the mod of adding a hole.

http://a376.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/101/l_831227108186dc93417167226afd584f.jpg

As you can see, the receaving end is all boogered up and won't be able to accept the plunger anymore. I think I really did a number on the FireLizard, what do ya'll think?

I am just very surprised I was able to ride home and get here with the engine still intact. As my wife just said, I made it home on a wing and a prayer.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by justin_o_guy on 07/29/07 at 13:27:47

Did you buy it new? Used? MIleage when purchsed? Did you have any reason to believe the bike was abused?
How do you ride? How many miles on it now? Any clues before it "all literally went to pieces"?

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/29/07 at 13:51:33

Bought it used from a pawn shop, at the time had over 12000 miles on it, now has almost 14000 so yes I knew it was getting close to having to do something about the camchain. And yes, when I bought it it looked like it was fairly well abused, unfortunately I didn't have the money to go completely through it and that was before I found this site with everyones very good advice.

I ride moderately without hard acceleration unless I'm trying to avoid a moronic cager.

When I bout baught it I knew immediately that the PO had dumped it either several times, or once very badly.

Yes, there were a few clues that I stupidly ignored thinking it might be something else. (I have been having problems with fouling plugs left and right and thought it was my jetting, and I was putting off lowering the pilot jet back down, not so sure that was my problem now though.)

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by KenGLong on 07/29/07 at 14:30:55

Total destruction in just 14,000 miles. Another data point.

I wonder if Suzuki is even aware of this?

Ken

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/29/07 at 14:38:18

Luckily it was only the tensioner that was destroyed, but while I have it down, I'm gonna go ahead and put new rings and bearings in it as well as a new camchain, tensioner, guides, and gasket set.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by srinath on 07/29/07 at 15:19:29

Yep on rings and hone etc, but dont forget to do a 3 angle valve job on the valves and seats.
If the cam chain has cut a trench in the case, make sure you fill with weld and get the thing ground smooth and flush and oil up and what not before you start it.
Mine was the same way, dont worry, it will live again.
Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by skrapiron on 07/29/07 at 15:36:45

Not a total loss, thank goodness. It is rebuildable whether you want to do it, or pay a shop to.

On a good note, you'll know then engine is completely up to snuff when you're done...

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/29/07 at 15:38:47

Very true, and I will be doing the work myself, I just have to save up the money to get the parts. Until then, my wife will be driving me back and forth to work.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by Strafford_Guy on 07/29/07 at 15:57:57

justin_o_guy asked:
Any clues before it "all literally went to pieces"?

Other then possible hearing the chain rattle what other signs should or could have made someone aware of this situation? I have a little over 10K on the bike, just adjusted the valves (intake was at 5 and exhust was set to 6) both now at 4. Plug looked great. Just wanted to know what I should watch for should the tensioner decide to go south. Hopefully it wont happen for a while. Bike was well taken care of from what I can tell. Thanks again.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/29/07 at 16:30:56

Strafford_Guy wrote:

Let me see if I can think of anything that would have been tell tale.

I was idling crappy, it would go up and down and almost die. Had to keep some throttle open to keep it idling. Was starting to make some noise in the crankcase, like the chain was loose and slapping around, chugging when I tried to accelerate almost as if I were running low on fuel. (had a full tank so I know I wasn't low on gas, and petc0ck and all lines are good).

When I shutdown the engine it was make a mechanical sounding pop, like to pieces of metal hitting each other. This also came from the right side of the crankcase where the camchain is located.

I guess with all of these clues I should have something was up, but like I said in an earlier post, I have also been fouling out plugs left and right so I thought my jetting was too rich. Now I'm not so sure, it could have been that the valves were opening wrong because of loose camchain and letting in more fuel at wrong times.

Thats pretty much all I can think of at the moment that if I were paying attention I should have known what was up. But live and learn from the experiance I reckon. Then pass on the knowledge so nobody else winds up in the same situation.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by Strafford_Guy on 07/29/07 at 18:17:44

YonuhAdisi, I am sorry for your misfortune and wanted to thank you sharing the warning signs. I try to gather all the information I can about this bike so I can know what to look out for.
Thanks again Strafford_Guy

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/29/07 at 20:58:03

Anything to help. I do believe that is why this board was created, not just to chat with other Savage/S40 owners but to share ideas such.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by srinath on 07/29/07 at 21:25:15

Can we cut 1 link off on the back side of the cam chain. Would it work ??? is it possible ??? wear isnlt the problem. Travel before it clocks the opposite part is the problem.
Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by verslagen1 on 07/30/07 at 06:56:59

The chain is continuous, so to cut it you'd have to have a replacement pin and know how to set it in place.

Sorry to hear about your troubles. This is why I put a pin and slot in mine. Those noises eminating from the right side are your only clue. The other symptoms maybe not related or may not occur every time. At least I didn't notice them.

I've seen some wear patterns that indicate just before it lets go, the adjuster and guide flop around quite a bit. Enough to create a 1/2" arc on the back side of the adjuster. ;D

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by skrapiron on 07/31/07 at 13:36:56

So, let me ask a question that's probaly been asked 1000 times already....

What is the expected life expectancy of the cam chain or the cam chain tensioner? At what mileage interval should I start getting concerned with the possibility of failure? When it does fail, is it the tensioner that fails, the chain that fails or both?

I just flipped 7500 miles on the bike this morning. I'm not doing much interstate travel and I'm not agressive with the throttle. I am planning on changing the oil at 2k intervals with a filter change every other one. Do I have a reasonable amount of time left before I need to get it to the shop or should I re-up my AAA membership?

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by BigWes on 08/05/07 at 21:38:49

you must of been a great man in a past life ot make it home on that dude

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by verslagen1 on 08/05/07 at 22:55:46

skrapiron wrote:

So, let me ask a question that's probaly been asked 1000 times already....
... I re-up my AAA membership?

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1186276857

For those that don't check, keep your AAA active. ;D

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by rigidchop on 08/06/07 at 05:34:40

mine is acting the exact way you desbribed. fouling plugs, noisy chain, i figured it was the chain on mine though, will be fixing it very soon.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 08/25/07 at 10:03:52

Looks like I am gonna have to wait on my rings and bearings, but I will be ordering the camchain, tensioner, guides, and gasket kit this Friday. Will try to post step by steps on the replacement of these items with pics.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/01/07 at 22:30:24

Ordered my rings, cam chain tensioner, guides, and a Clymers yesterday. My next paycheck I will be ordering the cam chain and gasket kit.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by islandwahine on 09/02/07 at 01:53:43

Hats off to you to be able to look at this and go "I can fix this."
I would have been bawling my eyes out if I had been in your shoes. There are things I know I can do, things I think I might be able to do but am not sure until I try, and things I know for certain I can't. I think your breakdown falls into that last category!!

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by Max_Morley on 09/02/07 at 09:04:44

You are lucky that spring didn't go between the crank gear and balancer, I think that is what causes them to self destruct that way. I sure wish we could find the cause so we can correct it on this issue. It seems so inconsistent and the mileage caries so much it is hard to tell. My tensioner had not separated yet, but was worn oval like that and now I notice the alignment pin that is inside the spring is missing. Don't know if it dropped on the floor and got swept up or is in the sump. Should be too big to be a problem at this point. Max

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by verslagen1 on 09/02/07 at 11:23:12

Max_Morley wrote:

I notice(d) the alignment pin that is inside the spring is missing.

I've never seen one with an alignment pin inside a spring. Is this what makes the earlier version of the adjuster different? I would like to see pict's of your adjuster. Maybe an alignment pin refit would help give us more life. ;D

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by Max_Morley on 09/02/07 at 13:32:40

Well. it looks like there was a casting of some kind there in mine. I'll have to check more. W/o it it seems like my spring would be short of pushing the plunger out all the way. REmember this is the old one. I can sent it for inspection by you if needed as it is junk now. PM with address if you want it Max

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/05/07 at 18:00:28

now that was a very large PITA. Just finished removing the engine from the FireLizard. Half my engine mount bolts were rust frozen but I managed to remove them intact without damaging anything else.

Wanted to get the engine out before my parts arrived so I wouldn't have to waist so much time removing it before I could start repairing it.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/07/07 at 10:13:35

Got a call from the stealership this morning.

"Your manual is in"
"What about the parts I ordered?"
"Don't know yet, still looking through the shipment."

Now wouldn't it be easier to just go through the entire shipment first then start calling folks that their stuff is in? That way they can tell you what all came in in one shot. ::) ::)

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by T-Mack1 on 09/07/07 at 19:18:53

How's that old song go...."Anticipation............" (sorry, I can hear it in my head but can't remember the words correctly, .....who sang it?, maybe Carly Simon)

Ordered my rebuild parts online. The Ovr sz pistion "kit" from the stealership's online tool. Then checked out Ronayers dot com, and found their prices about 10% cheaper, gaskets, cam chain filter from them.

But.....the stealership parts shipped in two days from another local dealership (they must have some kind of network). The Ron Ayers order took 6 days to "fulfill" the order and then ship.

Note to all: the OEM Ovr sz kit (0.5 mm over) does not include a wrist pin or circlips.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/07/07 at 21:38:58

Well, my rings tensioner and adjuster came in as well as my Clymers. Now I just got to wait for next week to order the rest of my parts.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/15/07 at 09:34:12

Ordered the rest of my parts yesterday morning, they should be in Thursday. I'm getting closer to being able to put the FireLizard back together.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/19/07 at 13:12:16

This is how the FireLizard sits so far.

http://a66.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/114/l_d2a4430fa6ccc805bca7929e07daba59.jpg

http://a176.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/73/l_b9717ee831d507d480f18b778e01e10f.jpg

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by demin on 09/19/07 at 13:18:16

Looks about like my '87 :-/

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/19/07 at 13:21:01

Except mines a 2000. :-/

Well, I think it has been well established that the only big differance in the years is the tranny. Am I right?

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by demin on 09/19/07 at 13:46:34

Yeah,but that's about how mine looks all ripped apart.All over the stupid head cap/plug.I did the plug then stripped the threads in the head where the long bolt goes.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/19/07 at 14:22:24

I just removed the head cover, I guess I was lucky, I didn't strip a single bolt. Just came in from the garage to get my Clymer's manual.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by demin on 09/19/07 at 14:31:23

http://www.bikepics.com/pictures/1027311/
All this because of a stripped thread >:(

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/19/07 at 15:06:31

Okay, how the heck do you get the camchain completely out. I can't seem to find it in the Clymer's. Maybe I ain't looking good enough, I don't know.

My engine is now torn down as far as yours. I can't believe that only two bolts secure the cylinder to the block. ??? Oh well.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/19/07 at 20:49:46

demin wrote:

http://www.bikepics.com/pictures/1027311/
All this because of a stripped thread >:(

I'm glad I didn't strip any threads. (knock on wood)

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by verslagen1 on 09/20/07 at 12:01:03

I noticed you found the penny trip so I assume you're jumping over the last hurdle. After you remove the primary gear nut, remove the clutch.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/20/07 at 13:46:39

Yeah, all I had to do was loosen the clutch enough to clear the primary drive gear.

Apparently the rest of my parts won't be in until tomorrow because of Suzuki's minimum order thing. They didn't order until Tuesday, so that gives me an extra day to wait.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/21/07 at 15:49:59

Okay, got the rest of my parts and very soon I will be putting the FireLizard back together. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/21/07 at 23:53:38

Okay, engine is all back together, all I got to do is put it back in the frame and hook everything back up. ;D ;D ;D ;D

I know I said I would try to take and post some pics of the procedure, but once I got started I didn't want to stop and completely forgot to take any pics. Sorry about that. :-[ :-[

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by verslagen1 on 09/22/07 at 16:22:35

I've had mine apart 3 times and it's the same every time... you get so caught up in what goes where that backing off for a sec, 'grabbing the cam with a oh sh!t my hands are dirty, naw greg has pict's', that you can't stop. ;D

One of these days, someone with a clean bike will roll up wanting an adjuster put in...

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/23/07 at 21:12:32

Okay, got the engine back in the frame and all hooked up, and ready to fire. Problem is, it doesn't want to start. I am getting spark, I am getting fuel, it's a new spark plug
I'm hoping I didn't mess up the decomp silanoid (ah forget it, I'll just leave it spelled that way).

A couple of times it seemed to want to catch and start, but no joy.

Any suggestions?

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/24/07 at 03:40:19

When I am not dead certain something is getting air, fuel & spark, and, if it wont start I am forced to wonder about one of them at least. I use WD40 shot in the intake, since it has a propane propellant.

If that doesnt get it, I would do a valve gap check & make sure of the cam timing.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by verslagen1 on 09/24/07 at 07:10:57

If it were the decomp solenoid (sily idinit) it wouldn't turn over.

more than 2" of gas in tank? put it in prime to fill the carb?

Like justin said check your valves easiest thing to screw up.

Did you actually see spark with the plug that's installed currently? or did you check with the old one cause it was loose?

sorry just going thru the list... ;D

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/24/07 at 08:13:17

The reason I mentioned the WD40 spray for fuel, I worked with a guy who said he needed help getting his car going, but would NOT admit it was out of gas.He was determined it was busted & would not run. I sprayed WD40 in the carb & it fired, he still wouldnt admit it needed gas, so i walked off, BUt, make sure that bike has air & fuel & spark, Propane is an easy fuel to place in it, since it will go in the air flow going in the carb. You can pull the fuel line from the cab & just give it a squirt of WD40 to see if it tries to start.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/24/07 at 09:13:53

I just tried it again after letting the battery charge all night. It tried to fired and run. I think though I am getting fuel to the carb, I may not be getting enough into the cylinder. I am going to try some starting fluid, and if that does the trick, I'm gonna tear the carb apart and give it a thorough cleaning. Some junk may have gotten in it while it was sitting on my bench while I was waiting for my parts to arrive.

I took out the spark plug I have in it and actually saw spark. I had put the petchicken in prime and let it fill the bowl. I did check to see if any fuel got in the bowl by using the carb drain screw. By the way, when it first started coming out of the drain, it was rather murky. That's why I figure maybe the carb got some junk in it.

I sure hope it is the carb, because I really do not want to tear into the engine again to re-adjust the timing.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/24/07 at 10:11:40

Time to pull the hose from tank to carb & put it on prime & see what comes out. Your tank filter may be plugged with junk.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/24/07 at 15:17:02

Checked the timing: Good. Re-adjusted valves: Good. Took carb apart and cleaned: Good. Got it to idle for about 5 to 10 seconds: VERY good.

I believe it was a combination of valves to tight and bad fuel delivery.

Having to let battery recharge again.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by verslagen1 on 09/24/07 at 15:25:54

GOOD!

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/24/07 at 16:29:44

I'll know for sure here in a little while. I just put the tank back on and continuing to recharge the battery on a 2amp trickle charge.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/24/07 at 17:07:51

Still no joy. It tries to fire, gets a couple maybe three revolutions, then dies. ??? ???

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/24/07 at 19:14:44

YYYEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got it. I was getting too much fuel and flooding her. I put the stock pilot back in and she played nice.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by Trippah on 09/24/07 at 19:46:22

Ah, now the flow is with you..congrats, you deserve a pat on the back.

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/24/07 at 19:53:08

Trippah wrote:

Ah, now the flow is with you..congrats, you deserve a pat on the back.

**bows to everyone dramatically**

Thank you thank you, I would like to thank all my fans, all the people on this site; without which I would not have had the gumption to even try. (this was the first motorcycle engine I had ever rebuilt) **listens to the adoring and deafening applause** yes thank you thank you again. ;D ;D

Title: Re: Ooops
Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/24/07 at 22:01:58

Just took the FireLizard around the block for a quick test. Very nice, smooth acceleration though I believe there is still some tweaking I need to do on it.