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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> So let me get this straight... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1184634420 Message started by skrapiron on 07/16/07 at 18:07:00 |
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Title: So let me get this straight... Post by skrapiron on 07/16/07 at 18:07:00 I just picked up a 2004 Savage on Friday afternoon. I took it out for a short test ride and found it to be everything I wanted in a bike. Everything was great, until I rode it home. As I was decelerating from the expressway, the backfired. It sounded like an M-80 was going off behind me. To say the least, I was a bit startled. I got to the exit ramp and verified that every time the engine spooled down from high rpm (higher than I had reached on my test ride), it would backfire. Sometimes just a little puff and others the M-80 was back. I called the dealer that I bought the bike from to schedule a service appointment but was told that the Savage is known to backfire (it's normal???) and there was nothing to worry about. Well, I rode about 100 miles since then and every time I roll the throttle closed, it will either pop or bang (depending on how it feels, I guess). I really thing I may have a partially blocked jet in the carb, as at certain throttle positions, I can feel the engine surging. Without getting too dirty, is there any way I can try to clean out the carb? Would it hurt if I were to mix in some STP fuel system cleaner with the gas? Will that make any kind of difference? Outside of that, is there anything else I could try without disassembling the gas tank and messing with the carb? |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by sluggo on 07/16/07 at 18:11:44 you have experienced the SAVAGE POP it's common with single clynder machines. try gently rolling the throttle back rather that just letting it off, that will help. some fine tuning jets to your elevation will help some. overall you will find the savage pops, squeals, rattles but those things don't detract from the qood points the machine has. |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by firsts40 on 07/16/07 at 18:30:33 Like Sluggo said, it will pop when you let off the throttle at highway speed quickly. I have learned to gently roll off the throttle when ever possible, and I don't get the pop as much, if any. I used to get a little puff when I killed the ignition, but after my second scheduled check-up, it has gone away, or it may be just the change in seasons. My S40 is an 06 model, and I live in South Mississippi. |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by skatnbnc on 07/16/07 at 18:30:52 If it ain't popping, you ain't got a thumper. :-* You can get used to it and enjoy it, USE it as some have to scare the sheet out of cagers, or start scrolling through the Tech section for a multitude of ways to modify the sound. Try living with it for a few weeks. Most people find it grows on you. If not, get a shave. ;) |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by mornhm on 07/17/07 at 04:44:34 I had a 2004 which I was able to tune (without re-jetting) to reduce the backfire condition to the point where was difficult to make it backfire even if I really tried, and it didn't exist in normal riding conditions. It was a matter of making sure everything was in adjustment mainly the idle adjustment (which as you read you will find requires you to remove a brass plug to get at the adjustment. My gas mileage also remained over 50 mpg overall with all kinds of riding. If you don't want to do the work yourself, you will have to find a mechanic to assist you who is willing to say that it shouldn't be that way. |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by LANCER on 07/17/07 at 05:02:50 The bikes are jetted and tuned to run very lean by the factory in order to pass the EPA requirements. The primary source of the backfiring problem is the pilot circuit. As mentioned earlier, you can adjust the pilot air screw (hidden under the brass plug on the right side of the carb). If you check the tech section there should be a thread with step by step instructions and pictures on how to do it. Turning the screw counterclockwise will richen the pilot circuit, helping the problem. *Note: do not turn the screw out more than 3 full turns out beyond the fully seated position. If 3 turns are not enough to stop the backfiring then you need to go one size larger on the pilot jet. Then readjust the screw again. Air leaks in the exhaust system can also cause backfiring, so be sure the header and muffler are secure and air tight. |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by barry68v10 on 07/17/07 at 05:41:18 Since nobody specifically addressed your "surging" condition, I'll throw in 2 cents worth... This is primarily due to a slightly lean condition in the mid-range. It will be more pronounced in colder weather, and on a hot day when the bike has been worked hard it will probably go away completely. It won't hurt anything to leave it that way, but you could perform the "white spacer mod" mentioned in the tech section to eradicate it. Welcome, and enjoy the THUMP! |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by skrapiron on 07/17/07 at 05:52:28 Thanks for the replies, guys. From the looks of it, I have some disassembly work to do tonight when I get home from work.... Out of curosity, is it possible to remove the carb without draining and removing the tank? (I did that on Saturday when I changed the plug. It wasn't hard, but it sure was messy!) I tried adding the fuel cleaner to the gas and after 24 miles, I can't tell a difference. If the carb was carboned up, I'd think that that it would have cleared by now (after sitting overnight and then 20+ miles at 60mph or better). Anyway, If the spacer mod does not work, do you guys know where I can order the pilot/main jets from? Do they come available in a kit (with multiple sizes)? Thanks for your help so far. (I really LOVE my bike!) |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by smokey02 on 07/17/07 at 07:34:23 My 96 also had that shotgun blast backfire, sometimes it would do it 3 or 4 seconds after shut down too. After I changed to a HD turnout muffler and reset the idle mix screw (under that pull off brass cap on the right) it no longer has that huge backfire. It pops and snarls a bit between shifts but nothing like an M80 now. |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by vtail on 07/17/07 at 08:54:31 skrapiron wrote:
It's gonna take you longer to take the carb off without tankremoval. Once you get the hang of seat and tankremoval it'll all go faster. Seat; remove two 10mm bolts underneath,one allen on back fender (time under a minuit), Tank: remove fuel and vacuum lines to carb,disconnect speedo cable at engine (watch for the little seal on male end so you do not lose it), undo two 10mm bolts holding tank to frame, than slide tank back 6-7 inches and disconnect elctrical plug (for speedo light)and continue sliding it back and a little left (to clear fuel valve) Viola! Under 4 minuits. Now go at it :) PS; put a little petroleum jelly or silicon on the rubber tank-grommets. It make the on an off much,much easier. |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by skrapiron on 07/17/07 at 09:14:00 Ok, I did a bit of poking around and found that there are several possible causes for the shotgun blast, not the least of which could be an air leak caused by loose exhaust bolts. So I went outside with a torque wrench in hand and yup, they were loose. So was the muffler clamp (to the frame) as well as the front engine support bracket. I torqued everything down to specs and started it up. Wow. No more rattling! I gave it some gas, no stumble and no backfire! I may have figured this thing out. Thanks to whoever posted all the bolt and nut torque specs in the Tech Data section. When I get a chance, I'm going to go all over the bike, just to be sure... |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by skrapiron on 07/17/07 at 12:57:19 Update: I ran out after lunch to pick upmy new glasses. (Since tightening the exhauts bolts) I found that the backfire was GREATLY reduced. The only time I heard anything was between my 1-2 shift and then it was only a mnor puff. When I shut down at the optometrists office, again only a minor puff. The only time I heard a loud backfire was during a rapid deceleration while entering the expressway ( assured clear distance is your friend! It kept me from becoming one with the bumper of the Dodge Nitro that decided to slam on its brakes rather than accelerate into traffic on the parkway.) The backfire was much quieter than before. So I have made progress, I looked at the carb teardown how to and it doesn't look too complicated. I'm hoping to do the spacer mod later this weekend. That's all from here. I'm going home. The kids have a swim meet tonight and they're fighting over who gets to ride there with me ;D |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by sluggo on 07/17/07 at 13:23:47 got the bike on friday, and taking inexperienced passengers on tuesday. be very very carefull. i made mine a solo so i would not have to carry passengers. in my history it's been the inexperienced passengers that have caused me the most trouble. i even got sued by a relative for a minor fall that he caused by moving around while coming to a stop. he broke his thumb when we fell, and acted like his hand had been chopped off. needless to say we don't exhange christmas cards anymore. ::) |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by skrapiron on 07/17/07 at 13:40:05 Sluggo, Thanks for the concern, my friend. I really do appreciate that. But there's nothing to worry about. My wife and I have been riding Maxi-Scooters (150cc and above) for the last 3 years. The first thing we did when we got our licenses was to buy each kid their own helmets. Between the two scooters, the kids probably logged 1200 miles of saddle time each with mom and me. They are both great passengers! before the scoots, I had a Yamaha YJ400...No worries :D |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by verslagen1 on 07/17/07 at 13:42:36 I tell my passengers to put there arms around my waist and lock them together. Pretty much garanties them not moving around. Tell the ones with long arms to walk. ;D |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by thumperclone on 07/17/07 at 16:38:04 also when your low on fuel itll pop to tell you to switch to reserve..least my 06 does... |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by skrapiron on 07/17/07 at 18:04:48 It is definately running lean. As I was pulling out of the swim meet tonight, the bike darn near died when I gave it throttle. When I backed down to idle, it returned normal. The only way I could get it to run right was with the choke pulled out to the first notch. Once I got out on the road, I pushed the choke back in and the surging and backfiring began all over again. I went back to the choke out 1 and the acceleration smoothed out and no backfire.. At all. I guess I'll be pulling the carb apart sooner than I wanted to. Either that, or I'll just have to keep riding around town with the choke 1/4 engaged..... This makes me miss the scooter that we traded for the Savage. It had an automatic choke. What sucked was it was only a 125cc engine. Oh well, back to mechanics school for me..... |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by skrapiron on 07/18/07 at 08:14:14 **New Update** I went into work a bit late this morning, as I was stuck in my garage putzing with the carb on my bike. I followed the instructions (thanks for those, by the way) and had the top and diaphragm off of my carb in less than 10 minutes. I took out the two retaining screws and the needle popped right out. I took the spacer off and then built up from the C-clip using 3 small washers. I then put the spacer back on and ran it over some 100 grit sandpaper. Overall, I reduced the spacer by 1/3 to 1/2. Where I ran into trouble was the reassembly. I had no idea that the plate holding the needle in place was keyed (I didn't pay close enough attention when I took it apart.) So I assembled it backwards, partially covering the two back holes. I figured that was not right, so I took it back apart and turned it over. Much better. While I had the diaphragm out, I inspected my jets and throttle body. Everything looked clean (no carbon build-up), but I ran a small pick through each jet just to make sure. I reassembled the carb , refitted the gas tank and partially filled it (maybe 1/2 gallon). When I went to start it, I forgot to apply the choke, but to my amazement, it started anyway! Cold, no choke! I let it idle for a minute while I refitted the seat then took it on a short test run. I immediately noticed a HUGE difference. Instead of lugging from the start, the acceleration was MUCh improved. Likewise, the surging that I was feeling at low rpm operation was nearly completely eliminated. When I opened it up, I still did not hear the back fire between shifts and the only time I could make it back fire was after letting the engine spool down from high RPM (maybe 5k or so). Before, it would backfire every time I would use engine braking to slow. Not any more. The throttle response is amazing now. I can go from low throttle and crack it open with ne hesitation. Before, it would go thud-thud-thud-vroom. I cannot thank you guys enough fof the information you gave me. I guess this is something that the dealer would never have done for me, so in a way, I guess they were right. It's supposed to run like that. I'm happy! And i'm riding to Cranberry for lunch! Thanks again!!!!! -Skrap |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by BigWes on 07/22/07 at 19:51:20 I just got my 95 and knew from this fourm that it would back fire. I just got my licence and meet up with a few friends (who all ride new R1's and the such, blah blah) and they were seated outside a large coffee shop. so i rolled by and intentonaly downshifted with a high rev. It cracked off 4 M80 sounding pops and scared the crap outta all the patrons. ;D and i was laughing my but off. Have fun with it man. if you dont want it to happen drop the revs down, personaly i freaken love doing it. makes me think my bike is bigger than it is =) |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by islandwahine on 08/23/07 at 00:04:23 skrapiron wrote:
Aloha, I have been riding my bike with either a full or half out choke since I bought it. The previous owner said it ran cold, and to leave the choke out until it warmed up. Well. I've been on a 2 hour ride and I still couldn't push the choke back in without the engine knocking or almost shutting down. I think I might try what you just did. Please tell me where the instructions you followed are. I red all of the "So let me get this straight..." quotes but I don't see the instruction on how to. Thank you! |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by skatnbnc on 08/23/07 at 06:16:55 islandwahine wrote:
Check out the Tech section - its all there. |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by islandwahine on 08/23/07 at 18:32:19 Actually I was looking in the tech section. It's just that I don't know the terminology, and that most post titles don't make make sense to me. And to open up each and every post to read if it is what I was looking for would take forever. The only time I have is late at night when the kids are in bed, or an occasional afternoon when I decide just to forgo doing the dishes or the laundry (I normally pay for that decision later). My shocks are also leaking oil at the moment, my search for shock rubber ring turned up pretty empty. Now I know it is called a front fork oil seal. Who would have thunk it is called a fork seal instead of shock seal? Did you know the part department at bike bandit calls it front damper? Yet another terminology, no wonder I couldn't find the seal. I had to look at every schematic to recognize the shocks. Well maybe in about 1/2 a year from now I might actually know how to phrase stuff and find it. |
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Title: Re: So let me get this straight... Post by Fido_the_Cat on 08/23/07 at 20:17:16 islandwahine Wait till you see how the micro-fiche is laid out. That makes absolutely no sense. But once you've seen it You'll remember it, hopefully. I guess what I'm saying is don't give up looking for it, it just may not be where you think it is. I am referring to the parts lists at web sites like Ron Ayers. It's not their fault, others are the same way, just need a little persistence. Ride Well and Often |
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