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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> starter relay?? solenoid?? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1184538376 Message started by drums1 on 07/15/07 at 15:26:15 |
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Title: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by drums1 on 07/15/07 at 15:26:15 I dug under the seat of my '87. (yes, the one with the keeps-on-a-runnin' problem) I see a square thing bolted to the rear fender--it has cooling fins and 2 wire bundles leading to plugs. When I hooked up a battery, the starter began cranking. I then smacked the square thing with my trusty channel lock pliers, and it stopped. Smacked it again and it started cranking again. Smacked it again and it stopped. So, what is that part? Is it the starter solenoid, or is it the starter relay? |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by verslagen1 on 07/15/07 at 16:17:25 That's the voltage regulator. |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by justin_o_guy on 07/16/07 at 09:56:33 To the best of my understanding, that thing has no moving parts. It's all electronic & just keeps high voltages from getting to the battery. So, if you smacked it & it stopped the starter, look around in that area at wires & connectors. I have been looking at the wiring diagram & just dont see how the regulator intersects the starter circuit, but, I hate schizophrenic diagrams anyway.I guess from the problem you are describing, thers NOT sposed to be any intersection of the reg & strat circuits, but on yours, there is. Do you have an ohm meter? If you had one you could trace the short down. |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by youzguyz on 07/16/07 at 10:05:23 drums1 wrote:
The starter relay (or call it a solenoid, same thing) is bolted on the fender as well, but further down towards the front. You can identify it by the large wires attached to it, one of which goes to the starter. I think you are smacking the regulator hard enough to jolt the relay. Try just tapping on the relay and see if you get the same results. |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by Max_Morley on 07/16/07 at 10:34:38 Yes it is supposed to be solid state, however I throw this in for what is is worth. I had a friend with an intermitent miss/shut down on a motorhome. As I twisted the PCM to put it into place I could replicate the concern. Manual said replace the PCM so we did. Parts store transferred the chip(s) before we got there to get it the next day. Same concern. finally found I could tap the PCM and make it miss/stop. Went to buy the OE chip and found there was a second chip there that wasn't in the parts book. It was marked BPCM or some such, finally the light went on as I had seen the special exhaust and cold air intake, it was a Banks Power Chip Module. Took it out and it worked great except was down a little on power. Owner admitted to connecting the new batteries in reverse at install just before the problem started. He hadn't told me that. So the solid state part had a loose connection in it and wasn't solid state anymore. Probably is the relay, but don't think it cannot be the regulator. Max |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by drums1 on 07/16/07 at 16:41:33 Thanks for the input, guys. I will find the relay and hope that is the problem. (cheaper to fix) Another poster had the same problem and most replies directed him towards the relay, also. Wish me luck--a new battery and a relay, and I'm rollin'. (hopefully before the snow flies) |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by Savage_Greg on 07/17/07 at 04:55:46 There is something totally wrong with this story.... Here's my understanding... You have a problem and you don't know why. So you remove the seats, start the engine, and without a clue to any exposed parts, you start smacking them with a pair of pliers. Then when you perceive a reaction to the smacking technique, you still don't know why. Is that about right? That's what I call troubleshooting... At the risk of making a cheap plug (but I think it's for your own good), you need to put the pliers back in the box, and go out and buy a manual.... ...and then click on the banner at the top of the main page and buy my CD. That way you'll at least have a name for the part that you want to beat with your tool. PS - Justin is right. With the exception that it is involved with the whole positive/negative concept of the battery, that finned thingie does not control the starter circuit... Good luck! |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by drums1 on 07/17/07 at 15:49:18 Oops, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I started smacking random parts. I was told the relay is bolted to the rear fender under the seat. The voltage regulator was the only part I saw bolted there, so I assumed it was the relay. Never having worked on bikes before, I guess I should not assume things. So, yes, yes indeed, the manual, and the CD. Right after the relay and the battery and the licence and the insurance. P.S. Greg. You sound just like an old ex-gunny sarg I work with. The sarcasm is killing me. But thanks, you've made your point. |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by drums1 on 07/22/07 at 20:51:45 Here goes...at the risk of offending Greg...I was putzing around with the bike today. I located the relay, under the seat. With the key off, I hooked up jumper cables to the car. It started cranking. I Gently tapped on the relay and it stopped. However, with the key then on, only the tailight was working. I rechecked the jumper cables, tapped on the relay again and now everything works. All the lights, the horn, the blinkers. But now it won't even click or crank. Please excuse my neanderthal troubleshooting, but I'm gonna go ahead and replace the relay. After spending 1 1/2 hours removing the dam thing, I'll spend the $45 to replace it. ( I would have given a left nut for a 3/8 swivel ) |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by T-Mack1 on 07/23/07 at 14:15:24 Drums1, Remember to check your connections. Your bike is 20 years old. A little corrosion on a connector, especially a ground, will do some real strange things...... Your last post really sound like a bad connection. If it still acts up after replacing the relay, clean as many connectors as you can. CRC or WD 40 can help. T-Mack1 (new to Savage's, but 20+ yrs troubleshooting electronics and processing equip) |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by slavy on 07/23/07 at 20:24:01 Drums, there are couple of things: 1.the starter solenoid doesn't have anything to do with the lights, horn, and so on. My guess is that You are havving a problem with the 2 fuses and the fuseholder. Also if the decompressor rellay is bad, Your starter will not work. 2.I don't think that even Greg's or somebody else's disk will be of help to You. The Savage is pretty simple and easy to fix bike. May be it will be wiser if You find a mechanic that You trust to take care of all the el. problems. You might have to pay now, but in a long run You will save Yourself troubles. If You realy feel confident and You are willing to do all the work , first find an el. schematics and also try to understend what every el. component is doing. Good luck with the bike ! |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by drums1 on 07/23/07 at 21:33:23 Well, dammit, I checked the relay at work today, and the dam thing works fine. I'm told it's the little yellow wire that runs from the switch to the relay, probably shorted somewhere. And I did check the fuses the other day, so you may be right about that, too. I'm gonna give it one more shot and do a little wire tracing and testing. If I still don't get it, then it's off to the bike shop, and probably give up on riding this summer. Maybe a winter course in motorcycle repair.......... |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by justin_o_guy on 07/24/07 at 23:11:51 You think maybe its a little yellow wire? Do you know where it goes? If so, can you run a parrallel wire & just bypass it?IUt doesnt have to be pretty, just to prove it works. If you bypass that wire & the problem goes away, you can try to find the problem, or you can install a wire & be done with it. |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by T-Mack1 on 07/25/07 at 10:16:33 So, Dug out the service manual to look at the wiring diagram to see where the yellow wire goes. It goes to a "Starter Solenoid Controller", which is the thing that first turns on the decompression solenoid then after a bit turns on the starter relay. Looking at the wiring diagarm, there is a way that the starter could run without the ign switch being on. There is a direct power feed from the battery (thru the fuses) to that controller. It's the Red wire with white trace coming off the fuses. There is a 20 Amp fuse that only feeds to that. So, here's a test you can do: first, find the fuse (only two fuses, one for lights & ign and the other for the controller). Do your banging to get the starter to run; then pull the fuse. If the start stops then you have to check the connections and wiring to the controller. If the wiring and connections are clean and not shorting somewhere (especially ground wire, the black wire with yellow trace), then the controller is suspect. To find the controller, follow the wires from the decompression solenoid. T-Mack1 |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by drums1 on 07/25/07 at 13:31:54 OK. Did all that. Everything looked ok. It doesn't crank by itself anymore. Right now, all the electrical stuff works ok. (lights, horn, blinkers, stop lights.) I put the relay back in and hooked up jumper cables again--now it cranks. But only turns over twice, then stops. I did this about 10 times. I then noticed the jumper cables were real hot. Massive starter draw? The starter was a bit warm too. Is there a way to check the starter off the bike? I think next time I'll just buy a bike that already runs instead of inheriting someones "garage project". I do appreciate all the help so far. You guys rock. |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by justin_o_guy on 07/25/07 at 17:53:24 Check you decomp slenoid & see if its firing. Maybe not letting the starter "get a run" at the engine. |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by drums1 on 07/25/07 at 19:13:58 Decompression solenoid. I'm looking at the picture of component locations. Looks like it's under the gas tank, right? When accessed, how to check it? |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by justin_o_guy on 07/26/07 at 01:40:22 Put yer hand on it & hit the starter. If you feel it smack its working. If not, that little box youve been messing with with the yellow wire going to it may be the problem, since it is the decomp controller, too. Thats where I have my "Emergency start" button wired in. |
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Title: Re: starter relay?? solenoid?? Post by slavy on 07/26/07 at 07:40:15 Why don't You get a new good battery, give it a proper charge and use it to run Your diagnostics? A bad battery will give you so much wrong info, that even the risk of havving to mess 2 extra days makes it worthed the new battery.After that in the worse case You will have a spare that You can keep on the trickle charger and have it just in case. |
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