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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Durability of Savage /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1179951773 Message started by dinamasu on 05/23/07 at 13:22:53 |
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Title: Durability of Savage Post by dinamasu on 05/23/07 at 13:22:53 The Savage utilizes Suzuki's "Big Single" power plant, a ~30 horsepower air-cooled , 652 cubic centimeter, 4-stroke one cylinder, SOHC engine, affectionately known as a "Thumper" engine. This engine had a SERIOUS DURABILITY issue, caused by the combination of plain camshaft bearings and almost two feet of oil feed line to the cylinder head. The long oil feed meant that after a cold start, the camshaft ran dry for several seconds, leading to frequent camshaft seizures in the long run. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The above I found on Wikipedia. And I was reading a thread in this forum about reliability versus Rebel 250. Where the above Wikipedia statement was mentioned. But the responses in that thread were more confusing than helpful. So my question is with prudent maintenance is there a question of durability with frequent camshaft seizures OR is this Wikipedia poster just whistling Dixie? -- Don "Very Short Person" Inamasu |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by mornhm on 05/23/07 at 13:50:13 Anybody ever hear of a camshaft seizing on a Savage? I don't think I remember reading about it on the forum. Maybe before my time. Serious durability issues??? I suppose you would have to define serious, but this seemed to be referring to the alledged camshaft oiling problems. Gotta love Wikipedia :P |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by smokey02 on 05/23/07 at 13:54:23 Yeah I read that too, but I bought one anyway. I believe I read somewhere else that the oil path problem was made worse by too much sealant not letting the oil get by the head studs, or something like that. I do have the dreaded oil leak up next to the exhaust outlet, but it runs great anyway, I put 11,000 miles on it in a year and a half and it has never stranded me. |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by verslagen1 on 05/23/07 at 13:58:05 This discussion has been discussed before and all I can say where are these frequent cam shaft failures? Of the nearly 5000 members literally world wide with links to several different groups world wide, the only place that these cam shaft failures are discussed is a sole wikipedia entry. Was the disgruntled author misled by his stealership mechanic? Who do you beleave? 1 or 5000? |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by grim on 05/23/07 at 13:59:36 I heard from a bike mech that these bikes are meant for nice weekend rides, not highway commute at 75/80 mph. At these speeds, it is balls out for the savage. Things breakdown faster. If you know how to fix them, great bikes, if not....you're better off spending some money on a more "reliable" bike. |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by LANCER on 05/23/07 at 14:45:34 In my mind and experience, there is no durability issue. I dismiss the wickie personality. |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by borne2fly on 05/23/07 at 15:17:03 I'm tearing one apart now for oil leak issues, but it has 15K miles and never left the gal who owns it stranded. The cam lobes are still pristine, as are all the surfaces in the cylinder head that serve as cam bearings. Most of her riding is around town and under 50mph. |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by vroom1776 on 05/23/07 at 15:26:10 as long as the idle is set correctly (and oil paths are not clogged) the cam will get oil at start up. if you take the head cover off, or the cam out, be sure to lube the cam journals with molly di-sulfide grease (aka starting grease). I've never heard of a camshaft seizure on a savage either. A cam chain failure, yes. This is what everyone here is freaking out about... the savage will do 80 mph all day long for at least 5 days straight, stopping for gas. I did it. then my cam chain adjuster failed. not the cam lobes or journals. the bike continued to go, just not over 65 mph. Greg_650 posed pictures of his cams that had pitting or galling. those are the only one's I've heard of or seen like that on a savage. originally posted & taken by Greg_650 here (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1171949438;start=23#23) http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/ExhaustRocker_1629.jpg |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by Reelthing on 05/23/07 at 16:38:59 The sour grape on the wiki likely ran it out of oil |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by dinamasu on 05/23/07 at 16:51:01 Thanks everyone. I had never heard of a durability issue and it seems that Suzuki would have had to "pull" the Savage {or the S40} off the market if there were one. I own two 650 Rotax thumpers that put out 48 hp and 50 hp respectively. But the bikes weigh 25% more than the Savage. |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by Reelthing on 05/23/07 at 17:42:51 now hang on, the rotax 2-cycle twins 377/447/462/503/532 CC engines are absolute works of art - love um - so if your rotax power bike engine was built like these - well our savage engine isn't good as these but it's pretty good! |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by serowbot on 05/23/07 at 17:45:00 And "Norway" just posted pics of his bike with 95,000 miles on it. Still running strong. Na-na's to the wiki. I think some recognition is in order when he hits 100k! Let us know when you get there, Norway. |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by Savage_Rob on 05/23/07 at 17:48:50 Reelthing wrote:
Or a salesman wanting to sell bigger bikes with higher profit margins. |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by firsts40 on 05/23/07 at 19:25:14 ??? I agree with most of the above. If there was a major problem with the engine design, do you really think it would still be around after 20+ years? Preventive maintenance is the answer. Keep the maintenance up and don't ride it like it is a crotch rocket, and it should be pretty much trouble free for many, many miles. :) 8) |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by Reelthing on 05/23/07 at 20:09:37 and keep good(syn for me) clean oil in the correct amount - only has 2 qts and only takes 5 minutes to change it |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by LANCER on 05/23/07 at 21:06:43 Quote:
Why not? That is where I have the most fun. ;D |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by T140V on 05/24/07 at 00:16:41 I'll wager the pitting Greg_650 had was caused by starting the engine and not letting it warm up properly. Condensation will build up on all the metal surfaces of any engine and cause rust if you shut it down without blowing out the crank case. You have to let it run on the road for a while before shutting down. How about it Greg ? Did you have any days where all you did was ride it in the driveway? ;D |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by Paladin on 05/24/07 at 06:32:27 dinamasu wrote:
Wikipedia is basically anyone writing anything they wish about any subject. They may be knowlegable, they may be biased, they may have an agenda they are pushing. There is NO authoritive source behind any of the articles on Wikipedia and thus, while interesting, it is completely useless as a reliable source of information. That the misinformation quoted above was allowed to remain is, to me, proof positive of the uselessness of Wikipedia. |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by Gnu on 05/24/07 at 08:15:00 Paladin wrote:
For a topic as obscure as a particular model of motorcycle, that might be true. But, in general, there have been groups who have found Wikipedia to be approximately as accurate as Encylopedia Britannica. |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by verslagen1 on 05/24/07 at 08:48:34 Maybe we need to get in our own blog about the savage. |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by skatnbnc on 05/24/07 at 11:16:45 I seem to recall that you can add links to wikpedia entries. if there was one on there to this forum, things would be better... ;) |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by Savage Librarian on 05/24/07 at 11:42:48 I get to hear about Wikipedia a lot, working in a library. It's useful someties if you're trying to get a general idea about a broad topic. Much the same as with encyclopedias. Because of the nature of encyclopedias (and wikis), there is a higher chance of inaccuracy than with a dedicated source book. After all, in the best scase scenario, the author of an entry is trying to cram a topic into as few words as possible to fill an allotted amount of space. It's easy for information to get garbled under these conditions. Kinda like this post... In any case, that's why it's best to go straight to a dedicated source for information...like this forum! The folks here have an astounding amount of information and know-how. And I think this post of mine has turned into exactly the sort of thing I was talking about. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/24/07 at 16:32:34 Where is the Wiki? Learn how to get into it and go fix it -- uncorrected bad press will be read by lots of folks considering a Savage and NOT BUYING IT because of this eronious information. Oldfeller |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by dixaflier on 05/24/07 at 17:08:49 Didn't you find it interesting that the guy who wrote the wikipedia article started out saying the cam doesn't get oil... then wrote, "The LS650 is a good motorcycle for beginners due to its easy handling, but its simplistic design and RELIABILITY also make it a good choice for more experienced riders." Seems like he oughta make up his mind. Is it unreliable because of the supposed cam problem or is it reliable and a good choice. Mine's reliable and I figure that's all that matters. |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by justin_o_guy on 05/24/07 at 17:19:09 T140V wrote:
With the oil bathtub the cam has I can't picture the cam ever not being fully coated with oil. Also, after I got to looking closer, my old cam has a few pits, too, but nothing like Greg's. |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by verslagen1 on 05/24/07 at 17:36:07 I've seen porosity like greg's in other vehicles. And I know there's been porosity reported in various spots. I have some in my clutch cover. Some aren't harmful, just recently someone's posted their's in the cam bathtub due to poor tolerancing in the machining of the casting causing a nasty leak. Something like that could easily sour someone to the savage. ;D |
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by mornhm on 05/25/07 at 04:48:19 More than likely the two statements were written by different people with different agendas/opinions. As several have pointed out this is a feature of the wiki. dixaflier wrote:
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Title: Re: Durability of Savage Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/26/07 at 12:40:52 I really don't see what you guys are talking about. I went to the Wikipeda and asked it what you guys were talking about. It told me Savages were pretty cool little bikes and I should buy one. So I did. Been happy ever since, too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_LS650_Savage Oldfeller |
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