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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Kick Starter /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1178943333 Message started by JaredMcLaughlin on 05/11/07 at 21:15:33 |
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Title: Kick Starter Post by JaredMcLaughlin on 05/11/07 at 21:15:33 I know I'm a bit nuts, but I know what I want. I'd like to have my Savage as a kick-start bike. Anyone who's taken the engine/tranny apart know what sort of gear I'd need if I were to attempt to fab one? Or, does anyone know of another Suzuki made bike that has an appropriately geared kick starter that I can just fab some mounting for? |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by justin_o_guy on 05/11/07 at 22:04:07 I've seen this idea "Kicked" around a few times. seems if I remember how it went was. If ya want a kick starter, shoulda bought a bike that has one. The Suzuki geniuses here that mod all things & make it faster say it aint a happnin thing. I think it would be cool as heck, too. If I could add one, I would be right there with ya.Sadly, it just aint in th cards.. I am gonna feel like a real Doofus if someone says otherwise now, but, thats the way I remember hearing it. BUT, I woiuld be a happy Doofus! I could get a kickstarter! |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by klx650sm2002 on 05/12/07 at 02:20:28 It's possible to convert my KLX (C model) to kick using R model stuff. And the other way round. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by justin_o_guy on 05/12/07 at 06:07:47 Ya but, where does that leave us? |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by azjay on 05/12/07 at 06:36:00 perhaps, cut a DR650 motor, into the frame and sell the ls650 motor. |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by barry68v10 on 05/12/07 at 17:18:06 Quote:
Yeah, and bring the tranny along... |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by Starlifter on 05/13/07 at 17:47:48 I had a Honda 360T back in the mid 70's, kick start only...I HATED that kick start. |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by hutch on 05/14/07 at 17:46:05 Jared, I too wish the Savage had a kick start. The most dependable way to start a bike. I grew up with kick starts from the 60's. Triumphs,Harleys, Nortons, Bsa, you name it. I hate depending on a battery. The 67 Royal Enfield 750cc bike I have is kick start, so is my 68 Bsa,69 Triumph, and 2005 Royal Enfield Bullet. The Bullet also has electric start, but when the battery was to low to run the starter it started right up with kicker. Push starting a small bike aint bad, but pushing a Harley sucks!! I hate being stranded, that is why I wanted to find a way to put a chain on the Savage, and finally figured it out for everyone. I will try to e-mail Allan in England and find out if the Suzuki LS400 was a kick start. The bike is identical to the Savage with a smaller motor. The problem is that it was never imported to the U.S. I believe the bottom end is the same(not sure) and only the top end is bigger on the Savage. If it has a kick start, it might be possible to put one on the Savage using LS400 parts. Getting the parts would be the next thing. They don't even list the LS400 on the web page titled"every Suzuki ever made" I tried to see if I could get the sprockets from England to put on my S40 and it was a no go finding them. My leg may get tired kicking a stubborn bike, but at least it goes back to full power after a short rest, can't say that about a battery. If you could put one on it, I would also go to a cable actuated decompression release, instead of the battery operated one on the Savage. All the oldie but goodie bikes of my day had a manual decomp. If they didn't and you couldn't start it ,the bike was to big for you. Give me a few days and I might have an answer about the LS400 and if it has a kicker. Hutch |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by Ed_L. on 05/14/07 at 18:04:28 I would think you could fabricate something that would work on the left side of the engine, just attach it to the crankshaft. There is even the inspection hole in the side cover which could be used. Run the decompression relay off a pushbutton switch and you'r ready to go. |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by sluggo on 05/14/07 at 23:10:37 i suppose you want to put a crank back on your cars engine. ;D i rode a 400 cc suzuki for 20 years before this one, and a kick start is the last thing i would want for the savage. i've bruised the arch of my foot so many times it hurts now just thinking about it. |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by Peter_the_blacksmith on 05/15/07 at 00:04:39 The LS 400 was/is made for the Japanese market only. And has no kick... |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by Violent_Rage on 05/15/07 at 00:07:35 look at this: http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/4162/kicksavageqm5.jpg someone has posted it in this board months ago... |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by Savage_Rob on 05/15/07 at 04:51:48 Peter_the_blacksmith wrote:
I think Sluggo was talking about the Suzuki GN-400. |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by vroom1776 on 05/15/07 at 06:36:08 I've been thinking about this a lot lately... esp. as a pal of mine has been busting my balls a lot about a kickstarter (and a magneto!)... I really don't think it's possible. go stare at the case. one of the botls that hold the RH side case on goes right in the center of where you'd have to put a bearing. even if you reworked the case, THERE'S NO ROOM TO KICK! |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by Peter_the_blacksmith on 05/15/07 at 07:07:33 Savage_Rob wrote:
But Hutch wasn't ;) ;D |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by hutch on 05/15/07 at 09:00:27 Peter_the_blacksmith wrote:
Yup, that is a fact, no kick start. Kick start and magneto is the only dependable bike as far as I am concerned. I already had a new Boyer Branson electronic ingition on the Triumph chopper burn up in 2000 miles. Couldn't sell it last year for that reason. Putting a good old dependable Joe Hunt mag in it before I sell it, just so the new owner won't come back. The bike has so much compression with the big bore kit on it that I can put my full 150lbs on the kicker and it won't roll over with out jumping on it. Now that is a real mans bike. I'll take that over a "pus-y" button every time. I had a electric start on my 1955 Farmall A tractor. Battery went dead(6volt) threw it away and pulled the starter. Made up a plate to bolt on where the starter was, to keep dirt out, and been using the crank start for 12 years. Starts every time. One primer crank, next crank she purrs. Simple is always better, unless your lazy. Hutch |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by vroom1776 on 05/15/07 at 10:16:22 I've HEARD rumors of a kickstarter for these bikes, though... for $2k! in fthe future, if I get that big $$$ job, I'd like to buy yet another savage, rip it apart, hire an engineering firm, have them figure out how to do it, & get it all machined up correctly. I don't know if this is a reasonable plan, either... |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by Savage_Rob on 05/15/07 at 10:56:27 Peter_the_blacksmith wrote:
Ahh, I see. Nevermind. |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by Savage_Rob on 05/15/07 at 10:58:08 Where thumpers are concerned, I'll stick to an electric start. Just my opinion. |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by verslagen1 on 05/15/07 at 11:21:50 vroom1776 wrote:
for $2k I'll tell you a rumor... And if I was lead engineer on this bike, I'd kicked some Jr's arse from contents to index. |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by Ed_L. on 05/15/07 at 11:57:08 Even my little 250cc Ducati from the '60s will bring tears to your eyes and curses to your mouth when it kicks back. I'll stick with the electric start on my savage but still think a left side kick starter would be easier than anything on the right side of the engine. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by hutch on 05/15/07 at 15:42:39 Savage_Rob wrote:
The 500cc 2005 Royal Enfield Bullet thumper starts right up with the Kicker. I save the battery for the lights. It has a manual decomp and if you know how to start a big single, you won't have a problem. You can set on the seat and make it look like starting a 50cc. Just got to know how to do it. Don't get me wrong, I have had kick back ankle more times than I care to count, but that is how I learned the trick. Fortunately I have always wore engineer boots or harness boots. Tennis shoes are the dumbest things anyone can wear on a bike. The only thing worse are the idiots I see with sandals and flip flops. Wait till they meet MR. Road Rash. They will learn or quit riding. Hutch |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by vroom1776 on 05/15/07 at 15:55:18 gotta love the squids! |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by hutch on 05/15/07 at 16:47:40 Guess I might as well give the secret away. Singles are the easiest, no matter how big. Twins are another story. Some are worse than others. A big single will start like a 50cc if you leave the ignition off, use decomp and roll motor to the EXHAUST stroke, piston coming up, if you have a free flow exhaust you will hear the motor make a long HUFF sound letting the air out the pipe. Just as it quits, you turn ignition on, ratchet kick start back up to the top. Now when you kick, the piston is going down and the intake valve opens to let fuel in on the down stroke, hardley any effort to kick, piston is going down. By the time you get to the bottom of the kick the weight of crank and counterweight takes over to complete the compression stroke and ignition. No kick back, no effort. Real simple when you think about it. Just have to know how a motor works and use IT to do all the work. Most twins are a 50-50 deal. You might get a sore ankle and you might not. Nortons were the worst because they fired way before TDC. Built motored Triumphs were the next worse like the one I just built. Harleys will put you on top of the bars because of the long stroke if they kick back. It is just part of riding a bikers bike. Hutch |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by georgekathe on 05/15/07 at 19:20:11 never had no trouble (kick)starting my '61 BSA 650 Superrocket twin with manual decompression. never bashed my ankle, nor hurt my sole - nothing - just a knack you got to follow, I guess (& I wasn't a "big boy" when I had it in '71 - weighed 140 lb.) can't remeber for sure but think my Yamaha SR500 single had a kick start too - if so was also no trouble to start. I'd like option of kickstart if battry was dead. |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by hutch on 05/15/07 at 20:04:41 Manual decomp makes the difference. Most Triumphs didn't have it. My 67 Royal Enfield 750cc In terceptor doesn't have one, but so far hasn't bit me. The 69 Triumph chopper I built to the gills just loves to let you know who is boss. Last summer the thing put me on a cane for 3 days. Had to have a buddy start it for me so I could go home from his house. The second kick back was the end of walking normal for 3 days. That is the second reason it is getting a magneto. First dependability, second manual retard for easy starting. If I could figure out how to do it, I would have a kicker and a Joe Hunt mag on the Savage in a heart beat. Along with the chain conversion I already did, I would go across country with out any worries. Every wire on the bike could burn up and you could still get home. No lights, but the bike would start(kick) and run with the magneto. Simple but dependable, like bikes should be. Hutch |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by vroom1776 on 05/16/07 at 07:35:02 the more I ook at the case, the more I think it's impossible. but then I walked tot he other side of the bike... it might be doable as a left side kicker. one issue with a magneto that hutch touched on above... advance and retard... the stock CDI unit (ignitor) fires (now don't yell at me if I'm a little wrong, I don't have the FSM in front of me) 30 deg before tdcc when rpm is less than 3k, and 5 deg. before tdcc over 3k rpm. any idea how to work that into a magneto setup? so, who's got $2-3k and a spare case or two for some r&d work? |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by hutch on 05/16/07 at 10:33:30 vroom1776 wrote:
I wish I could say me!!!! Hutch |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by hutch on 05/17/07 at 09:52:17 vroom1776 wrote:
I believe that you must have the 30deg and 5 deg in the opposite positions. If a motor had 30deg before tdcc under 3k rpm it would want to run backwards due to not enough rotational force to keep it running in the correct direction(kick back) That is the reason for retarding the timing for easy starting with the slow rotational effort of the kick start. Hutch PS Not yelling at you, it took me this long to realize something didn't look right. |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by hutch on 05/17/07 at 10:23:52 Got a question, if the battery were to low to enable the starter to work, would the decomp selenoid still work, or would you be trying to push start a FULL compression Savage ?? Since I only weigh 150 and usualy have to put a bike in 3rd gear to start by pushing, you see my reason for concern.. If I had the money I would do like Vroom said, I would get an engineering company to make one. You could make your investment back selling the conversion, 2k sounds a little steep to me,unless you want to make your money back by selling ONE. Just wondering about the low/dead battery thing. Anyone had the "luck" to have an answer for that? Well I guess the grass is dry enough, so it's time to get the crank out and start the Farmall " Super A" and "get 'er done." I'll be back in about 4 hours, even with the 5 foot deck it is a long job. About $100 a month to mow your lawn, just in gas, what a bunch of ---------------------- Hutch |
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Title: Re: Kick Starter Post by K1200LTryder on 05/17/07 at 11:40:08 Having 3 bikes, each from a different decade, non of the are kick start. My last kick start bike was a Suzuki GT-550 two stroke triple, but it also had an electric start. The kick pedal was so rarely used, that it siezed up from lack of opening it out to use it. Manufacturers started getting away from manual starting systems more for liability issues than creature comfort. People were getting seriously injured from kick starters hitting back and tearing calf muscles, broken knees and legs, and even serious injuries caused from being throw over the bikes. If yer bike aint gonna start with a dead battery, boost it or push it, because you can kick that sucker untill yer blue in the face, and seeking crutches before it will start. You dont see cages with hand cranks on them anymore, and the same is for street bikes.... |
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