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Message started by Savage_Rob on 05/10/07 at 08:23:27

Title: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/10/07 at 08:23:27

Well, I've said for some time that I intended to get my header ceramic coated. I obtained a spare some time ago and found a place online that's located within about 5 or 6 miles from where I work. I took the horribly blued (from using header wrap) header by there yesterday and went right by the place at first. It's garage-based operation, though he has a lot of equipment in there. I saw a couple of samples of the different finishes. I wanted satin black before I even showed up but was interested to see what the Cermakrome finish looked like. As delivered, it looks like an aluminum finish or maybe more like the galvanized pipes you see on chain-link fences. He says it can be polished to look almost like chrome. I have to say, the stuff is tough. You could whack the samples together pretty hard and there's no indication of any damage at all. Anyway, he quoted me $50 to do my header and that includes the sandblasting/prep. He said he thought he could have it ready for me today but would call when it's ready. I'll let y'all know and post a pic or two when I get it back.

Engine Ceramics Header and Industrial Ceramic Coatings (http://www.engineceramics.com/)

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by Greg_650 on 05/10/07 at 11:11:45

Savage_Rob wrote:

Well, I've said for some time that I intended to get my header ceramic coated. I obtained a spare some time ago and found a place online that's located within about 5 or 6 miles from where I work. I took the horribly blued (from using header wrap) header by there yesterday and went right by the place at first. It's garage-based operation, though he has a lot of equipment in there. I saw a couple of samples of the different finishes. I wanted satin black before I even showed up but was interested to see what the cermakrome finish looked like. As delivered, it looks like an aluminum finish or maybe more like the galvanized pipes you see on chain-link fences. He says it can be polished to look almost like chrome. I have to say, the stuff is tough. You could whack the samples together pretty hard and there's no indication of any damage at all. Anyway, he quoted me $50 to do my header and that includes the sandblasting/prep. He said he thought he could have it ready for me today but would call when it's ready. I'll let y'all know and post a pic or two when I get it back.

When you get it, you might have a good excuse for taking some updated photos of your bike, right?

:P

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/10/07 at 12:06:22

Greg_650 wrote:

When you get it, you might have a good excuse for taking some updated photos of your bike, right?

:P

Heh, it's been raining off and on all week so far but I'm trying. The pipe looks about the same as the one on her now as it's painted flat black. I might wait until my next scheduled oil change to put it on too. At that point, I'll be looking at my cam chain tensioner and replacing my clutch springs, so I'll be taking the exhaust off anyway. Then again, I may just do it this weekend. I'm anxious to get it fully cured, and that's another reason to ride. I haven't taken a picture of it because it basically just looks like a black header. It came with a notice rolled up in one end of it telling you that it's cured to 800 degrees but still requires riding at speed to get it to cook at a full 1200 degrees to completely cure it. The notices are below. Click image for full-size.

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/CERMAKROME_CERAMIC_HEADER_COATING_NOTICE_1.jpg (http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/CERMAKROME_CERAMIC_HEADER_COATING_NOTICE_1.jpg)

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/CERMAKROME_CERAMIC_HEADER_COATING_NOTICE_2.jpg (http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/CERMAKROME_CERAMIC_HEADER_COATING_NOTICE_2.jpg)

Engine Ceramics Header and Industrial Ceramic Coatings (http://www.engineceramics.com/)

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by Holodeck on 05/10/07 at 17:02:11

Can you get any color you want? As in the same color as your tank?

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/11/07 at 06:08:10

Holodeck wrote:

Can you get any color you want? As in the same color as your tank?

Well, since my tank is flat black truck bed liner, that's what I got. However, they only have certain colors available in the ceramic. I believe the place I used only has two or three options but there are others.

I used Engine Ceramics Header and Industrial Ceramic Coatings (http://www.engineceramics.com/).

Others include:

Performance Coatings (http://www.performancecoatings.com/headercoatings.html)
AMR Coatings (http://www.amr-coatings.com/)
ThermalTech (http://www.thermaltechcoatings.com/)

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by justin_o_guy on 05/11/07 at 08:19:32

Is this strictly a cosmetic thing or is there any performance gain? ( I wonder if anyone has a clue what I am into?

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by verslagen1 on 05/11/07 at 08:54:21

I think someone has said that there is a performance gain similar to doing the header wrap thing. ;D

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/11/07 at 08:59:19

justin_o_guy wrote:

Is this strictly a cosmetic thing or is there any performance gain? ( I wonder if anyone has a clue what I am into?

Take a look at the sites listed above.

From the Performance Coatings website:

Quote:

The most advanced exhaust system coating available. It is a very durable ceramic reinforced coating available in a variety of colors. When properly applied it becomes the most effective thermal barrier coating available, increasing performance, while extending component life & has been tested to over 2000 degrees F without lifting, cracking or flaking.
Unlike header wraps, it does not hold potentially damaging heat & moisture around the part. Rather, the surface temperatures are actually reduced, extending the life of the part. When cured, a very effective corrosion inhibiting film is formed that protects the part against oxidation and imparts excellent chemical resistance that further extends part life and enhances appearance.

From the ThermalTech site:

Quote:

Depending on the coating, part life increases from two (2) to ten (10) times the normal part life can be obtained. Coatings such as "THERMAL BARRIER COAT" (exhaust header coating) can provide virtual lifetime protection against rust when applied to a new part. The dry film lubricants may burnish until they are no longer visible, however the active materials are bonded into the pores of the part and continue to provide protection.

Quote:

Parts will run cooler when coated with a thermal barrier (ceramic coating for exhaust systems), allowing engine oil and water temperatures to show a reduction. The radiated heat on headers will be substantially reduced leading to lower under hood temperatures and less heat absorption by nearby parts and surfaces. This is also a benefit for motorcycle exhaust coating to reduce the temperature rising towards the rider.

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by justin_o_guy on 05/11/07 at 20:39:13

Okay, I am a bit confused. I see it staes the thing reduces the heat inside the engine. Thats good news. makes the header last longer. Reduces the radiated heat underhood or up & out on the rider. I dont understand how it can be a conduit for heat out of the engine & also decrease the radiated heat the rider will encounter. Anyone? Did I read that wrong? Thats a real possibility, cuz Ive been working hard all day & I am BEAT, so I may have blown it.

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by verslagen1 on 05/11/07 at 22:58:30

I've read that it keeps the exhaust hotter and that causes it go out faster.

I suppose that if the header is not absorbing heat, it won't feed it back into the engine. My guess anyway. ;D

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by justin_o_guy on 05/11/07 at 23:35:52

It says it radiates less heat onto the rider, too, which means the heat is going?? Where? Maybe I am just not reading it right. Aching too bad too sleep, too tired to think.. pardon me if I say something Totally stupid.

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/13/07 at 12:50:20

I believe it functions much like header wrap and insulates, causing the heat to move further down the line. I've read it accelerates the exhaust but I haven't tried to validate that. I can guarantee it gets hotter further down the line as my muffler blued in a week after adding header wrap whereas it had not been bluing at all prior to adding the wrap.

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/13/07 at 17:52:06

Okay, I did 110 miles with the new header on it today to finish curing the ceramic coating and I'm not going to bother putting any head shields back on the bike. The ceramic insulates that well. I mean, I'm not reaching down and grabbing the header after a ride but I can hold my hand close to it and the radiated heat is A LOT LESS than before. I wish I'd had an IR thermometer gun and had taken readings before and after.

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by skatnbnc on 05/13/07 at 18:06:50

Ceramics dissapate heat in a different way than metals. The molecular structure of ceramics withstands incredible temps without becoming overly surface hot. Think space shuttle tiles. They are made of ceramic and withstand over 2500 degrees.

The only reason your header is not pure ceramic to start with is because it is an inherently brittle material. It is only within the past few years that technology has been able to bind polymers with the ceramic to make a coating that acts like a true ceramic.

The heat isn't 'going' anywhere. The ceramic never allows the heat to be retained and built up. So it is cooler.

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by justin_o_guy on 05/14/07 at 06:49:39

Thanks for that answer. I still dont quite get it all the way, but that helped quite a bit.

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/14/07 at 08:07:15

It's definitely hotter "downstream" when you use header wrap but I can't say that for sure with the ceramic. I like the look and I like that it's so much cooler. The guy who does the coating says he gets a lot of his business from folks whose passengers want cooler pipes.

Oh, here's a pic of it (along with a reinstalled MAC muffler).

http://rob.savageriders.com/images/Nadine%202007-05-13%20002.jpg (http://rob.savageriders.com/images/Nadine%202007-05-13%20002.jpg)

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by LANCER on 05/14/07 at 09:04:07

That's perty ;D

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by Grove_Tucky_650 on 05/14/07 at 09:15:55

Savage_Rob wrote:

I will send you my pipes so you can get it done for me!!! That looks great!!

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by klx650sm2002 on 05/15/07 at 02:29:37

Hey Rob
That's one "cool" pipe, I like black.
Clive W :D

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/15/07 at 04:55:35

Thanks. Now I just need to finish the truck bed liner by doing the rear fender and then obtain/fab a grab-rail instead of the short sissy. I also plan to make a taller sissy-bar to strap stuff to for longer trips but I think the grab-rail is the look I want for everyday riding.

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by georgekathe on 05/15/07 at 08:28:20

header/muffler combo looks very sharp!

Title: Re: Ceramic Coated Header
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/15/07 at 10:09:02

Since that photo, I've actually sprayed the muffler clamp with a flat black silica/ceramic hi-temp paint (the same stuff I had already done the muffler with). It looks good but doesn't insulate/dissipate heat the way the ceramic coating does. It probably won't last nearly as long either. I make have the muffler coated later on too but the header was far more important.