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Message started by Tammi on 04/26/07 at 07:21:32

Title: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Tammi on 04/26/07 at 07:21:32

I've read the thread started by wvchoppers on front brake squeeling, and although my topic is related, I thought a separate thread was warranted.

I've had a squeel since day one (I have a 2005), but that didn't bother me.

But now, with only 2,300 miles on my bike, I have a loud GRINDING noise from my front brake. It's so loud that drivers and pedestrians look my way when I really apply the front brakes and come to a full stop.

I used my back brake only whenever I could as I was out running errands last night. And for safety reasons, that's not a habit I want to get into.

Also, about 50% of the time, after I start up from a full stop (after using the front brake) I hear a small grinding sound from the front brake for a while, as if the pads are still making slight contact with the disk.

I can stop this noise by very slightly engaging the front brake and letting go of the brake lever.

So is there an adjustment I can make, perhaps? The calipers are out of whack, maybe? Can I do something to the surface of the pads or the disk?

Anyone know?

Thanks.

Cheers. Tammi

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Roadie on 04/26/07 at 07:56:00

Pull the caliper and check it out. I bet its worn out pads... Do you see any deep grooves in the rotor? Or is it smooth"ish"? If you do the pads you'll NEED a "mighty vac" its a must. Don't bother with a non-vaccum brake bleeder. And don't worry its EZ to do even for someone like me.

My stock pads only lasted till about 3K so don't feel bad. There's alot of use on them!

My guess since I can't see the bike is that the pads a toast and you've got the thing all the way out. So this is what I did when mine went.

Bought EBC pads and mighty vac (found at Sears). Pulled the cap off up top. Sucked out everything with the vac (complete brake fluid change out. ) Pulled off the caliper gently pushed in the pads, removed old (there's a clip)... Then had a friend pour in some brake fluid while vacuumed out the air. Tighten the banjo, put the caliper back on. Pumped the handle grip, suck more with vac, and done....

Oh one thing I forgot, pull the banjo fitting and put some plumbers tape around it so you don't loose your vacuum.

I'm sure someone more mechanically inclined will have their two bits.

- Roadie

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by K1200LTryder on 04/26/07 at 07:56:36

You could have a pebble, or some kind of debri hanging in the pad, or caliper. Try hitting it with a high pressure hose at a carwash, it might clean it out.

Otherwise, if it keeps grinding, it's time to pull the caliper and further inspect.

Maybe the pads are shot (and if they are, DO NOT ride until everything is fixed)...if there are deep gouges in the brake rotor, you have no other choice but to replace it.

Hope this helps

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by smokey02 on 04/26/07 at 09:46:43

Mine made that grinding sound when the original pads wore down to the bare metal, I put OEM (suzuki) pads on and started training myself to use both front and rear brakes every time I stop. They lasted less that 4000 miles, so I put on EBC pads FA106X (the red ones) and they have over 5000 miles on them now and seem to be holding up much better. I purchased a spare pair too. (see pic)

http://w2.bikepics.com/pics/2007%5C04%5C26%5Cbikepics-877331-800.jpg

Look in the Technical Documents section for the instructions on changing the pads, on the first page titled "Front Brake Pads" by Greg_650, It's pretty easy to do. Good pictures in there. Note: don't break loose the banjo fitting if you can avoid it.

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by justin_o_guy on 04/26/07 at 10:39:19

A total brake fluid change so early would be going a bit overboard I would think, but, it wuldnt hurt a thing as long as you are up to the bleed job.
From what I could gather from your post, you believe front brake only is the safest way to stop. If so, I hope you do some homework in that area. A balanced use of fron & rear brake is (MY opinion based on what I have read AND discovered in my experience) the quickest most stable way to stop quickly. It requires a touch & the rear brake on the Suzuki will quickly lock up. I went into the raer brake & removed about 1/2 of the brake shoe contact surface, so the brake requires a lot more pedal input before it will lock up.
I expect those crummy stock brake pads are shot. IF there are light grooves in the rotor, you can get some sand paper & smooth them a bit or , MY choice is to stick some cheap pads on & ride, using the brake hard & allowong the pads to rub the rough stuff down & then, with the 8neven but smooth surface, I actually have an increased surface area for my pads to grab, ONLY after the pad is fully seated into the grooves. Then, after it is smoothed by the sacrificial pads, I put good ones on & be CAREFUL till the yave seated in the grroves. I sis this on cars many times & had brakes better than anyone in town. Raced & stopped & other guys couldnt get em shut down near as fast when it was time.. I know this works, BUT it is dangerous till they seat. Be careful iof you go this way.

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by georgekathe on 04/26/07 at 12:30:28

I know this does not address your problem but just a note -

agree with justin - should use back as well as front when stopping, even though the front is the real "stopper." one should use front & back together (don't know why but in real life it works out doing them both @ same time results in slight lead to front brake coimg on. depending on who you listen to it is a 70/30 or 60/40 front/back situation.

if something is worn out hope it is just pads, tammi - rotors aren't cheap (incidently - as you can see from bottom of my entry I use ebc pads & am happy with them. been led to understand are imporement over oem ones & cost less or @ least the same to boot. my local non dealer bike store had them in stock).

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Reelthing on 04/26/07 at 13:05:45

pop it apart and make sure the slide pins are lubed up and let it move free - wouldn't be suprised if one pad - the outside is worn down heavy on one end if these pins are binding

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Tammi on 04/27/07 at 06:45:05

Thanks for all the advice, folks. Looks like I’ll be an EBC customer soon.

So, I’ve looked at my Clymer’s manual, and the photo tutorials posted in the Tech section by djpennin and Greg_650 (thanks, guys!). I think I can do a front brake pad replacement.

If I can find the pads today, I’ll do the swap this weekend. If I need to mail order, it’ll happen next weekend. Either way, I’ll provide an update here.

By the way, I DO use both brakes to control my speed and come to a stop. I only mentioned in my post that I stopped using my front brake for one evening, as I was a little self conscious about making bystanders cover their ears and wince with pain upon hearing me come to a grinding stop.

Using the rear brake only ... that’s the bad habit I mentioned in my post as what I wanted to avoid.

Cheers. Tammi

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by verslagen1 on 04/27/07 at 09:18:05

Just did mine EBC "red". Haven't back on the road yet, so can't tell you how they perform.

It's very easy to do. Just break loose the 2 caliper bolts and the single allen head in the center before you disassmemble anything.

The only advise I can give you over what anyone else has said is be very carefull when pushing back the piston. Do not c0ck it to one side. Push it back evenly and straight. It will save you a lot of hassles if you do. I've had to rebuild a few in the past and have seen where someone had appearently c0cked it and had put a mark in the piston. This mark will be a leak.

My technique is to use a big flat bladed screwdriver in an unusual way. I twist it. Leave both pads in place, you'll need a chunk of metal as a spacer, I use the center of a large combo wrench. Place the widest spot of the screwdriver in the center of the pad and on the wrench. Then twist it, the cam action will push the piston back easily. ;D

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by georgekathe on 04/27/07 at 11:56:25

can echo verslagen, tammi. I'm no mechanic but found changing pads to be an easy excersise - followed clymers & assistance obn this site & had a blast doing it! :)

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by tbalam on 04/27/07 at 18:44:22

c clamp on the pad works well for moving back pistons as well.

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Tammi on 05/04/07 at 06:11:51

Well, now I know why my front brakes were grinding:

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6056/padssa6.jpg

Wow, about 20% of each pad was down to bare metal!

Those Suzuki pads in the above photo that I took off of my '05 bike last night lasted only 2,375 miles. I put on a pair of red EBCs, and I'm hoping they last much longer.

Well anyway, thanks for all the advice and for pointing me in the right direction.

Turns out that I did not need a C-clamp or a vice grip to push the piston back. Just my two thumbs and steady pressure did the trick. (I had removed the top plate of the brake fluid reservoir on the handlebars first.)

I was very nervous about twisting the caliper about, because several of you warned me not to pop the brake line banjo fitting. I didn't pop it, but it was always in the back of my mind.

Also, I was surprised that the anti-brake squeel spray I bought turned out to be very unlike grease. It was actually very sticky.

But it sure does work! No squeeling at all in my morning commute. But then I never really did clamp down on the front brakes, as I'm mindful of the break-in period.

Cheers. Tammi

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by K1200LTryder on 05/04/07 at 06:24:14

WOW :o Those new pads aint gonna last long if you didnt replace the rotor....not only is the metal backing of the pad worn down, so is the thickness of your front brake rotor...VERY dangerous !

Please change your rotor, it's way cheaper than being thrown over the handlbars when you really dont want to.

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Tammi on 05/04/07 at 08:24:46

Your post worries me, of course. But I'm curious ... how can you tell the condition of my rotor?

Are you making an assumption about my rotor based on the photo of my old pads?

I did smooth out the rotor with some 600 grit sand paper.

My Clymer's manual noted that the rotor should be replaced if a fingernail lightly scraped across the rotor would catch on a ridge or gouge. I assure you that I did this test and passed it.

But I'd like to learn more from you.

Cheers. Tammi

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Reelthing on 05/04/07 at 09:07:24

you can mic it - do you have one handy?

normal looks to be .17-.19 service limit of .16

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by K1200LTryder on 05/04/07 at 09:53:32

Well Tammi, rotors DO wear, even if the only friction contact was from the materials of the brake pad itself. These materials are softer than the rotor, and are made that way for several reasons, one of them being minimal wear on the rotor.

From looking at your old pads (or what is left of them), there had been alot of metal to metal contact from the backing of your pads and the rotor itself.

You see how your old pads have been "ground down" ?

The same holds true for the rotor.

An overly thin rotor can have a catastrophic failure if a heavy braking situation arises, which is almost always an emergency situation.

Unfortunately, I have seen the results of "just throwing a set of pads in " first hand. It was over 20 years ago, and my friend Brian had a CB-350 Honda who thought the metal to metal wear on his rotor was fine, and put new pads in.

He was on a bridge, an oncoming car swerved to miss debris, he slammed his brakes, the front rotor exploded and Brian was thrown from his bike into the path of the oncoming car.

Brian died on the scene.

RIP BJ

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Tammi on 05/04/07 at 12:49:06

So sad to hear about your buddy. That kind of story helps keep me grounded in so many ways, if you know what I mean.

Thanks also for the further information on the rotor.

Looks like I'll be buying a micrometer in the near future...

Cheers. Tammi

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by justin_o_guy on 05/04/07 at 14:37:39

I think callipers would do ya fine. Gigital callipers can be had inexpensively & they work fine.
I would have tossed pads on the thing too. Maybe I need to rethink things a bit. What I did on a car, with a rotor with cast iron webbing between the friction/pressure bearing surfaces doesnt quite translate straight across the line. If the thing is thinner than the book recommends, the first thing I can see is it would lack heat dissipation abilities & tend to warp. A war[ed rotor can quickly lock a wheel & on the fron, total disaster..., rear? Most likely disaster, but we have drums back there, so not really the same issue. Like the man said, Be cautious here. As much as I like to save $$$ , it's hard to enjoy the savings from the emergency room, even less so from the morgue. Sorry to be so grim, but, brakes are serious bizniss. How many miles did the grinding continue? Also, when you measure the calliper, dont allow the outside edge to keep you from reading the swept area of the pads on the rotor. This may actually be a place for a micrometer. Unless you are able to shim the rotor & account for the shims in the digital calliper reading. That way, the outside edge of rotor can be managed so as to not affect the calliper reading. There are folks here who can easily explain the way to do that. I can do it, just not so sure I can explain it succinctly,
Excellent pics & gald you are posting what's going on. You may have saved me some real problems.. or someone else

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Roadie on 05/04/07 at 17:18:16

After seeing those pads Tami I'd have to agree with the others on checking out that rotor... Rotors aren't the expensive when you consider its the one thing that really is "a life saver" when you need it....

Sux that those pads went so soon. I really only got 1k more than you did...

- Roadie

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Reelthing on 05/04/07 at 17:57:54

Tammi, the miles do seem low but maybe not - are you in stop and go traffic a lot? - if so miles really aren't a good measure of much except tires maybe when you compare city miles to back road or hiway miles.

Might be worth considering the drilled low carbon steel rotor from ebc and the HF ceramic pads from SBS - good bit more powerful brake - for a single piston that is.

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by georgekathe on 05/04/07 at 18:00:27

I can't say for sure if the rotor is screwed or not, Tammi, but checked Ron Ayers site online & price of oem one part 5921124B10 is $143.30.

for $142.38 you can get an ebc replacemnt, part MD3017LS

in both cases suggest you phone & order rather than order online - makes sure you are getting the right product.

my gut goes with buying latter - almost any alternative you buy is going to be an improvement over oem, in my view.

a bummer if you have to buy one but can agree with others' concerns - safety could be an issue here.

your manual will tell you what torque you need to tighten bolts obviously - others on this site can help you with how you should tighten them (ie if in a particluar order)

don't know if you should replace the bolts that hold rotor on to hub or not - my gut says yes, but sure others with more bike fixing savvy can help you with this.

there might be other places that sell them a buck or so cheaper but know many on this site use ron ayers.

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Reelthing on 05/04/07 at 19:08:43

Now hang on a sec - seems unlikely the rotor is "broken" - if the groves will not hang a finger nail and the thickness is with in spec - I wouldn't replace it unless I was going to upgrade.

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by georgekathe on 05/04/07 at 21:50:51

reelthing, was not saying Tammi has to replace rotor but if has to then maybe might as well upgrade to ebc rotor rather than get oem @ same price.

however - though passes fingernail test is warping through overheating caused by metal on metal not a possibility? anyone?

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/05/07 at 05:54:51

Rotors are not heat treated to a high hardness nor are they case hardened. Their base material hardness, strength and toughness is what they operate from.

A rotor gets hot in normal use, easily over its lower transformation temperature (or first draw temperature, if you like) during a "down the mountains" braking session. Normal old medium alloy steel rotors did sometimes turn a light blue in similar conditions and still worked fine afterwards.

Our rotors are stainless steel (noted for toughness among machinist that have to cut the stuff). Car rotors are commonly made of nodular cast iron which is weaker and more brittle but still works OK because all disk brake rotors are squeezed with a balanced set of opposing forces that result in no deflection force on the rotor.

If Tammi has actually hurt her rotor she will feel "pulsing" from the front brake that won't go away. She very likely just needed to clean up whatever small surface roughness that exists, which she did already with the sandpaper.

Before I threw a $143 rotor away, I'd have it turned on a double bit rotor turning center (if they can figure how to index the hole and shoulder flange correctly). As long as the resulting trued up plate was within service thickness limits after the clean up, she'd be fine.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by georgekathe on 05/05/07 at 09:55:17

thanks for correction oldfeller - did not think truing was a possibility with these rotors.

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/05/07 at 11:12:20

Actually, the topic got me to thinking and I realized I didn't want to go through any of the hassels associated with any of the rotor truing mess at 5,250 miles on my original OEM brake rotor, so .....

I just now went out and changed the front pads out with the SBS ceramic pads I bough a while back (to have them on hand when the stock pads wore out unexpectedly).

What I found was that the inside pad was worn significantly more than the outside pad and I was inside the groove limit on the inside pad. Still had some meat left to the bottom of the groove on the outside pad. This is logical because our rotor assembly floats from one side on two rubber sheilded and greased pins -- meaning one side drags the rotor slightly some of the time while the directly hydraulic piston actuated pad likely gets sucked back by the piston return motion to be completely out of engagement when relaxed.

So, in a sense I was "on time" to change out the pads, not extremely early like I had thought. Odds are I could have gone 2,000 more miles before actual grinding began, but why worry with it? Pads don't cost that much.

Sanded the rotor by spinning the tire by hand while applying 320 grit cloth backed paper. I did this until I felt I was wasting my time (you are NOT going to remove the little grooves BTW -- you are just polishing up the top and bottom surfaces of those grooves)

I used the blue permatex anti-squeal compound on the backs of the pads. This is an alcohol based gasket sealer type compound -- it is sticky and rubbery when fully set.

To get it fully set I warmed up the pads on the eye of my wife's stove on LO heat. I applied 3 coats of the stuff being mindful that the piston side engages on the middle circle ring that matches up to the circular piston surface and the other side engages right up against the outer ear in a rectangular fashion (two sided of course) where ear tabs come off the brake piston assembly on that side.

I heat cured the 3 coats until they were dry and rubbery to the touch. Then I loosened the brake fluid reservoir fill plate, wrapped it in a towel to catch the leaks and pushed the piston back with a "C" clamp to create clearance for the thicker new pad assemblies.

I sprayed piston assembly nice and clean with a can of brake cleaner then blew it off with compressed air to get everything nice and dry again. Very lightly greased the pin and the brake pad holes, put the plates in their right places inside the spring assemblies with the anti-squeal coating matching their engagement surfaces and set the pin down inside the holes in the plates and lightly engaged the pin threads.

Everything slid on to the rotor and lined up correctly the very first time -- so of course I couldn't trust it so I slid it apart and put it back together again a couple more times until I was sure everything when where it was supposed to be and all the tabs were in their pockets, etc. I think if you can get the pin to slide into the pad holes that actually locks everything down pretty good, so assembly to the rotor is really pretty easy and fault-free to do.

Looking at the torqued up assembly vs. the rotor showed a BIG gap between the outside pad and the rotor. Actuating the brake lever very lightly moved the entire piston assembly on the two slider pins (and even that slight force deflected the rotor slightly but visibly). As soon as I had the slightest feel of "bottom" I stopped actuating the brake lever.

Test ride was very gentle, I just wanted to feel the pads seat onto the rotor and make sure they retracted cleanly. I really want the anti-squeal to fully harden before I go trying to do any heavy braking.

Looked at the rotor while it was apart. Rotor looks like it was a piece of flat "to final size" stainless steel plate that got hit with a laser to make the final part form. Best way to dress these plate-style puppies might be on a large surface grinder (take the entire thickness down at the same time with the best side oriented down on the magnetic plate, then flipped and ground again for good parallelism).

However, I think you really don't need to worry very much about dressing the rotors, the wear on the rotor was very slight (a few thousandths per side). And that small amount of wear might be decieving to measure because it looks like there is some sort of paint/powdercoat on the rest of the spoke portion of the rotor plate and that would be additive to the original metal thickness (and not present on the friction surface anyway after some use).

Now we will see if the squeal fighting tricks on the front end of the bike actually work. I think I did them all, so we shall see if the OEM "standard squeal" is gone for good.

Back brakes will get cleaned and the back side anti-squeal tricks done there pretty soon as my back tire is going to need changing out before too awful long.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Reelthing on 05/05/07 at 12:10:38

since your just starting with the sbs pads can you mic the rotor thickness now?

Those are rated as higher friction than the EBCs it would be interesting to know if they do wear down the stock rotor.

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/05/07 at 14:39:57

Realthing,

I used a 6" Mitutoyo digital caliper that spans over the tops of the groove tops just about the entire width of the wear zone. I got the same answer just about everywhere when trying 5 times/places, so I think it is relatively "a good reading" for a caliper.

I had to lay down on the ground on a blanket to get a stable enough grab though, calipers need a "steady body" to get the true minimum readings as ANY tilt in any axis increases the number that you think you are getting.

0.1750" or 4.44mm (with all variation within -0.001")

Oldfeller

Title: Hi everyone,Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Tammi on 05/07/07 at 06:47:53

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the extra information that everyone has added to this thread. I’ve bookmarked it and plan to refer to it often as I sort out my rotor issues.

I’ve still not ridden Thumper since hearing that my rotor may be dangerous. I hope to buy a micrometer or caliper soon, and until I fully check this out, I will only do short, slow test rides in the parking lots of the State Fairgrounds four blocks away from where I live. (The lots are virtually empty this time of year.)

For instance, I want to do a short test ride to check for the “pulsing” mentioned by Oldfeller2.

Anyway, at least 90% of my riding is stop and go city driving as I commute to and from work, so yes, I do use my brakes a lot.

I also made a practice of testing my emergency stopping abilities, maybe 2-3 times a week. (Thanks, MSF!) I’m sure that this contributed significantly to the fact that I only got 2,300 miles on my original pads.

justin_o_guy, I estimate that I took only 2-3 short city trips (5 miles each, tops) after noticing the grinding. So I don’t think I was too hard on the rotor. Still, I’m going to check the specs on it.

Thanks again for the advice everyone.

Cheers. Tammi

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by justin_o_guy on 05/07/07 at 08:05:40

Hey, Tammi, if you can get the front end off the ground, say with a come along? & can get someone to OHHH so very lightly, squeeze the brake so you can just turn the wheel by hand, IF they can keep steady pressure & you can rotate that wheel & not feel the thing trying to stop in places or get easier in places, then you can rest assured the rotor is true. In fact, if you just apply the brake & then roll the bike, the pads will pull back a bit & you should be able to Hear the rotor scrub & lighten up, scrub & lighten up, with each revolution IF its warped.

I suspect the rotor that exploded, causing the crash, was cracked before he grabbed it hard. From what I am seeing & hearing I really doubt Tammi has a problem. The SS rotor is tougher than the backing plate of the pads & even they arent all that gouged & galled looking. I couldnt see any deep stuff & she said it passed the fingernail test.. I think she is okay, BUT, the seriousness of the front brake requires she be extra cautious. Tammi, the area of missing pad looks like quite a bit of metal was dragging on the rotor. From what I saw, I would think it had been squalling for a few hundred miles, at least. I would look at the depth of the wear, not just the ridges vz. grooves distance, but, the very edge of the rotor doesnt get the pads on it. Correct? so, IF the rotor is worn down from the scraping, there should be a ridge at the edge. The pads were worn to the metal, one inside on the rotor, the other, toward the outside, so, the depth of the wear at the edge of the rotor & then towards the axle would each need to be looked at. IF I am reading those pads right, the wear on the rotor would look like this.. / / in a very exagerated way. I dont see that as a problem, just as a way to help Tammi "see" what it is she is looking at. Anyone disagree with this? Please, speak right up. I dont want to worry or misguide her needlessly.

Good Luck, Tammi, I THINK this is gonna be allright, but, I can't see it & would feel real real bad if I gave you wrong info & you got hurt, so I am leaning to caution.

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by verslagen1 on 05/07/07 at 09:06:07

If you have a couple of ball bearings (new or very clean) you can make yourself a ball end mic out of your digital calliper.

Take one and tape it to the measuring side of the jaw, as far out as you can on the flat portion.

And tape the other on the other jaw directly opposite.

You can tape over the measuring side of the ball, but best not to for accuracy.

Close the jaws and zero the caliper for measuring the distance between the two. For those with dials and verniers... you'll have to subtract this measurement from what you measure.

Now you'll be able to measure the thinner parts of the disk. Of course you need a point mic to measure the depths of the grooves. ;D

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Max_Morley on 05/07/07 at 10:12:39

I put 17K miles on my 96 (w/31+K total) with some pretty hard pads (the ones painted green - they still had a season to go) and measured my rotor when I put the red ones in last month. It was about the middle of the wear area, so I'd guess Tammi is going to be OK. I'm a big guy and the bike is set up like a bagger so is heavier, but I usually don't ride very aggresively and have to brake hard.

An idea for the measurement, any motorcycle shop or shop that does brake work will have the micrometer and should charge very litttle to measure the rotor for you. I think the unusual wear pattern could be caused by the forks not being parallel slightly, which also may have accounted for the original squeak. I'd loosen the bottom triple tree clamps bolts and the large top nut and cycle the forks a couple of times with the wheel straight ahead and then carefully tighten them with the wheel still straight. Have your apprentice sit on the bike and hold it upright while you do that.

While we are on brakes, I strongly recommend the stainless steel wrapped line after 3 years or so on the OE line or earlier if you want a more linear brake action, the wrap minimizes the line swell. Also don't forget to flush the fluid every 3 years to get the fluid that has absorbed moisture out. If you live/ride in high humidity areas then every 2 years. Max

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by georgekathe on 05/07/07 at 10:30:01

the (clymers) manual recommends replacing fluid every 4 years but wonder how many do it & don't see why not do it every 3 years (BMW say do it yearly on the R1100RT)? as far as steel braid line - can't say how it improved my brakes as diod it same time as went to ebc pads & put in new fluid so hard to quantify what did what.

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/07/07 at 11:01:29

georgekathe wrote:

I did the braided stainless line separately from the pads and I can say the brakes are noticeably more solid (less squishy).

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by verslagen1 on 05/07/07 at 13:39:07

I could see replacing yearly now that I've done it.

Takes less than half of the small can. And they recommend you don't keep an old can for very long. So why not replace it. The brown stuff I took out of mine convinced me. Might change my mind though, now that I have steel lines. ;D

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by georgekathe on 05/07/07 at 13:47:32

don't see replacing fluid as being something you need to do Tammi by any means (somehow this thread veered off on it) but steel brake line is a good mod to consider for around $50. of course then @ same time you need to replace the fluid!

the tech section has piece on how to do former - help can be got on this site on how to do latter - I found it a 2 person job - me copntrollong bleed valve & keeping piece of tube in jar of fluid, friend squeezing brake lever.

Title: Re: Front brake GRINDING!
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/07/07 at 17:59:33

Tammi,

Ride your bike and see how it feels.

Your brake lever will most likely seem "squishy" at first because your new pads haven't seated to the rotor and you haven't gotten your anti-squeal stuff settled in yet, so don't get bummed out by that initial mushy feel to the lever. That's kinda normal for new pads with anti-squeal compound on them.

Mine did that right at first too. It will get better in a bit.

It will take 50 miles or so to get your full "firm" feel back when you hit the brakes hard. That anti-squeal goop we put on the backs of our pads has got to settle in completely before it stops acting/feeling like mud in the works.

You aren't going to feel a "pulsing" unless your rotors are really screwed up and no, your rotor isn't going to blow up on you in any kind of normal use on a Savage. We don't have the engine power and braking speed to drive a front brake/rotor explosion -- it just ain't there for a Savage.

Oldfeller