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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1176931545 Message started by praetorian on 04/18/07 at 14:25:45 |
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Title: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by praetorian on 04/18/07 at 14:25:45 My Savage has Metzeler ME880 Marathon tires on it. I picked up a screw in the rear today. I have a ride on Saturday and no way to get it to a cycle shop to get it fixed. Anyone know if the Metzeler ME880 Marathon is a tubed or tubeless tire? How can I tell from the tire itself? I haven't seen anything one way fr the other on the net anywhere. I need an answer quicik so I can get to the autoparts store before it closes. Someone HELP please..... |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by Dr_Jim on 04/18/07 at 14:34:26 - |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by slavy on 04/18/07 at 14:45:12 You have tubes ! |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by Greg_650 on 04/18/07 at 14:56:45 It's not the tire that determines the tube. It is the wheel. As Slavy said, you've got tubes... ...which actually isn't gonna keep you from riding if you get a new tube and know how to replace it. |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by praetorian on 04/18/07 at 17:09:03 Greg_650 wrote:
Yeah... I realized this when I plugged the tire andfilled it with air.... rode to the end of the block and back and the tire was flat again. Air is leaking out of the base of the valve stem like crazy past the nut. Herein lies the problem.... My local Suzuki dealer takes 1-2 weeks to get a part in when it is ordered. Is this something that I would have to get a tube made specifically for the Savage, or are they all the same for the same size wheel? I have never done it, but think I understand the basic ideas. Using tire irons to pry the tire over the lip of the rim all the way around then working the tube out. Can the hole in the existing tube be repaired, or do I HAVE to get a new tube? |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by thumperclone on 04/18/07 at 17:15:54 your dealer should have tubes in stock..if not go to(call) any motorcycle shop for the tube you need... |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by K1200LTryder on 04/18/07 at 17:30:14 I have 880's on my BMW....they are tubeless. BUT !!!...all spoked wheeled bikes should be tubed. |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by K1200LTryder on 04/18/07 at 17:31:19 ...and you can patch the tube, just be careful installing, and dont pinch it ! |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by georgekathe on 04/18/07 at 17:37:29 for the sake of a cost of a tube (about $10-15) I would not trust my life, limb or bike to a patched tube. :) also as you say it is leaking out of the place where the valve is it may be the valve has partly come away from the tube - could not patch it even if you wanted to. when you use irons to get tire back on wheel with new tube in it watch out you don't pinch the tube between an iron & the rim - easy to do. also when you have fixed it I always nip up (not too tight, just right) the "ring" around the valve that butts up to the rim with a pair of needlenose pliers - saves the tube creeping & tearing the valve out of the tube. |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by barry68v10 on 04/18/07 at 17:59:07 Quote:
Except for BMW which has spoked wheels with tubeless tires... |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by praetorian on 04/18/07 at 19:11:40 Yeah... I guess I was just used to my Broth-in-laws BMW R1200GS which has spoked wheels but is tubeless. That and the fact that shortly after starting this thread, I saw on the tire itself where it says "tubeless" and I assumed (there is that evil word again) that one of the previous owners had had the spokes sealed so that he could put the "tubeless" tire on. It never even dawned on me that there would be a tubeless tire with a tube inside it. Well I just got the rear wheel off the bike with a HUGE amount of help from my wife (thank you Sweetheart) and I am calling it a night. When I get off work tomorrow, I am going straight to the bike shop to check on a tube for this thing. Here is a question.... are the tire irons for motorcycle wheels any different that for cars? Do I have to buy a set that are specific, or can I just go to Advance Auto and get a set. |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by justin_o_guy on 04/18/07 at 19:43:37 I got a set of 8" irons at the Yamaha shop, but an independent has some 15 " which I will get before I EVER try that again. Also, warm the tire up, set it in the sun in a trash sack or anything to get it softer. When ya get the tube in, put enuff air in it so its round & resists pinches, but not so tight it cant scoot back outta the way of the tire iron. I would only patch a tube on a motorcycle if I couldnt get a tube, PLaying with an "Instaflat" at speed can get ya hurt in a forever way. I dont remember if I needed the 2 chunks of 4X4 on the rear wheel or if that was just on fron, whete the brake got in my way. Also, if ya see the irons marking the rims, a bit of duct tape will protect them. Dont forget a spray bottle with soapy water, to lube the rim & get the tire on easier. Make sure you pay CLOSE attention to the lines around the tire whe it seats, so you know ya got it seated the same all the way around. Anything I left out folks? |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by thumperclone on 04/18/07 at 19:47:58 Anything I left out folks? [/quote] its a B.... worth the $20 the dealer you buy the tube from to install... BTW i got tubes in my 880s dont trust those rim liners to hold air ::) |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by Reelthing on 04/18/07 at 19:54:09 thumperclone wrote:
I'll 2nd the notion - the dealer likely has a machine that will whip that baby together in a heart beat guzzi has some tubeless spoked wheels as well - the spokes are outside of the bead - but dang those wheels are high - >grand per each |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by Holodeck on 04/18/07 at 20:08:40 I'll 3rd that. Call the dealer to make sure they have the size you need. Take the wheel down and have them do the install and balance for $20 - $25 labor + price of tube, usually while you wait. Go home and put everthing back together. Ride on Saturday. :) Knowing that everthing is done right ;D. |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by praetorian on 04/19/07 at 03:27:34 I would LOVE to do it myself, just because I like to do everything to the bikes myself, but I am starting to get into a time crunch. I have the wheel loaded in the back of the Magnum ready to ride to work with me. I am going to call some of the local shops and see what they have and if they can do it while I wait tonight. I would REALLY like to get the sheel back on after work tonight so I can relax an Friday night with, as my 4 year old son says, a "mommy & daddy drink" ::) ;D |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by justin_o_guy on 04/19/07 at 06:26:37 I wanted to do the tires myself, just because. I agree with the guys who say"Spend a few Bucks & have it done." cuz, no kidding, you could do about anything to earn the $$ you spend on the tire swap & come out ahead. The time & effort to save that measely bit oc $$ is a poor trade.Very poor,, I wont be doing it again unless I have no option. Okay, I KNEW I left something out.. that was it' |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by K1200LTryder on 04/19/07 at 06:27:54 You can do it yourself, but as recommended, better off with a new tube. errrr, the BMW has alloy wheels, as does the CBX...both tubeless.... |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by Greg_650 on 04/19/07 at 10:00:29 barry68v10 wrote:
Beamer trivia... BMWs with spoked wheels AND tubeless tires have external spokes on the rim. You can change a spoke with the inflated tire mounted on the bike. |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by K1200LTryder on 04/19/07 at 10:13:44 VERRRRRRRYYYYYYYY interesting there Greg ! |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by Greg_650 on 04/19/07 at 11:22:24 I thought so... http://www.xmission.com/~wendell/R1100GS/wheels.html |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by Greg_650 on 04/19/07 at 14:55:47 Not all Beamers have or had them, with cast wheels being more common now they are more rare. I think they are more preferred for off road anyway. But the subject was tubeless tires on spoke wheels.... I saw one closeup once, but can't find a better picture....Rim mounted spokes http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/WireWheels/me1.jpg http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/WireWheels/ssdetail.jpg http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/WireWheels/closeupr.jpg Okay, now back to the other subject.... |
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Title: tooRe: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by georgekathe on 04/19/07 at 17:13:45 I didn't want to say it before in case I get shouted down - but agree - I always take wheel/tire off bike & take it to dealer to have a new tire put on (always with a new tube - another recommenation I have). Not saying you'll need a new tire now but just for when yours wears out - fit a new tube too. |
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Title: Re: tooRe: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick ple Post by Greg_650 on 04/19/07 at 20:42:12 georgekathe wrote:
George_Kathe; Now, come on...You won't get shouted down for that. Just, most folks post a need when they want to do it themselves. You want for a dealer to do it...that might not be my style...but you have every right to take that route if you feel the need. It's your right. But if you ever get a wild hair...we're all here to tell ya how to get 'er done all by yerself. I GOT PITURES TOO! :P PS - besides, he's kinda in an eminent need. He's got a ride to do and tomorrow's Friday. Slap a new tube in there and go....it was just a screw and he already stuck a plug in it anyway :) |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by Greg_650 on 04/19/07 at 21:05:27 praetorian wrote:
Times a wastin buddy. Get good tire tools (cheap ones bend), a NEW tube, a patch kit (just in case), soapy water and drop the tire Friday night. You can change it out. Just take your time...I think someone has a topic on changing the tire somewhere. Once you do it, you'll never need them again. You don't need a dealer...if you want I'll even give you my cell number. You can worry about the little screw hole after your ride. That's the beauty of tubes. Maybe these old photos can get you convinced. If an old fart can do it... :) http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/Wheel06web.jpg http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/Wheel10web.jpg |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by georgekathe on 04/19/07 at 21:08:16 done enough putting in tubes to last a lifetime< Greg - too much of a pain for me now (the worst used to be putting tires back onto scooter wheels in the late 60s. the small wheel combined with a pretty hard sidewall on the tire made it real fun, even with tire irons almost as long as my arm!) :) |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by praetorian on 04/20/07 at 04:27:44 Well, I had to go and do it. As much as it pained me, I had to take the wheel to a dealer last night to get the tube changed. Last evening was the only time that I would have to get the tube changed and having never done it before, I didn't want there to be a glitch in something that would have kept me from completeing it last night.....that and my wife "asked" me to go to the dealer and have them do it because she didn't want there to be a chance that we couldn't do the poker run together tomorrow. The dealer charged me $15 for the tube and $22.95 labor. Then ther was the $4 for balancing and the $3 for putting the tire back on the wheel. Man....they will add charges on wherever they can. Why not just say the labor is 29.95 and that includes everything? Well I got the wheel home and it only took me about 15 minutes to get it back on the bike. Only question I have is how much tension should the belt be under? Should there be any play or slack in the belt or should it be quite tight? |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by verslagen1 on 04/20/07 at 07:02:13 If he charged you $22.95 labor, why did he charge $4 for putting the tire on the wheel? What a rip. |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by PerrydaSavage on 04/20/07 at 07:53:25 As far as belt tension goes tight enough to just be able to twist the belt 90 degrees by hand at the lower mid-point ... I've been told the tension guide provided in the LS650's tool kit results in a "too tight" belt. Is this accurate resident wrench-heads? |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by justin_o_guy on 04/20/07 at 13:27:00 I would have balked at the idea of ballancing it, unless there was a patch placed on the tire. The wheel/tire combo should have been ballanced when it was taken apart. If all he did was poke a tube in it, I fail to see how that could have unballanced it enough to matter. Any who know better, please tell me, Perry, I was using the "Tool" & being a "Bigger Hammer" kinda guy, would tighten the belt to the "tighter" end of the scale. It is a good bit tighter there than at the 90 degree twist method. It also squeaked considerably more that way. As long as there isn't enough slack to allow the bike to snatch & rip at the belt then I think it's okay. Wouldnt want to roll forward & set slack between the pulleys & drop the hammer on it & snap the belt tight real hard. I want some kind of belt dressing, but silicone worries me. Something dry sounds good. |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by Max_Morley on 04/20/07 at 18:15:53 Max says that a different tube would require the tire/wheel assembly to be rebalanced. A patch on a tire/tube usually doesn't, but the relationship between the rim, tire and tube must be kept as it was the last time the tire was balanced. You must mark the tire, usually at the valve stem, make sure you do not invert the tube on reassembly (flip it over) and put all the index marks in alignment. FWIW, the yellow (usually) circle if indexed to the valve stem is the correct way to install the tire. The Maxxis Wide WW that I just installed barely needed 1/4 ounce on the front tire/wheel assembly when I mounted it. I didn't see the circle under the blue shipping protection coating on the rear one and had to use alot more weight there. A purist would have deflated the tire and shifted it to the correct spot. On a tubless unit I would have done, with the tube in you have to go past where you want to end up and then come back to it. As my tire work machine doesn't have an antirotation device in it. Aligning the circle is a difficult exercise after the fact and I just added the lead to make it balanced. Max |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by justin_o_guy on 04/20/07 at 18:37:28 Tell Max I said PHHHTTT! lol,, Thanks Max, now I know to go ahead & spend theose few bucks. Beats having a vibe & having to pull it & start all over, over being too cheap to spend 4bucks.. Is that Maxxiss the same as the Promaxx street as far as traction is concerned? I am gonna be lookin for a tire that stick a bit better now that the thing climbs out of corners so vigorously & the forks dont flex. I expect IT( maybe not me) will be able to hawww BUTT coming out of some of these corners & I did one at 50 not long ago & felt both ends slip sideways a couple inches on exit. Whats stickier? Can we FIND sport tires for these rim sizes? Is that what is needed? |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by Max_Morley on 04/20/07 at 18:46:06 Not sure about the sticky of the MAXXIS WWW. I did work hard onthe first tank of gas weaving about as much as I thought I could explain to an LEO (our County mounted officers are busy troopers this week 'scootin' and writing folks up) in my lane and sometime both to scrub off the tire mold release stuff, the tread was pretty shiny when new. I still would like to run another couple tanks of gas through before I see if I can drag the new floorboards. Get the winter kinks out and relax more. Also it is chilly so I'm tensed up some from that. Max |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by thumperclone on 04/20/07 at 19:57:46 how do you balance ?level? how does the dealer ? spin i hope....patch or no re balance is better every time the tire is off the rim.....6>10 k on the car & truck i have rotate AND balance done and they got 4 skids on the road................pm keeps my suzis , cagers, trailer,thumperclones tires in the best,safest,long service, condition...... NTL $26 plus tube is cheap specially in these $3 a gal gas,$65 hr shop rate days...so for .5 hour thats $32.50 who out there (with balance) can do the same in less than 1/2 hour??......take me that long to get a cold one , get the carriage house open,etc ,etc lol ;D |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by Max_Morley on 04/20/07 at 20:20:52 I bought a HANDY Brand balancer stand at the Seattle International Cycleshow years ago. Since them I've seen advertised the axle shaft with cones and bearings that can sit on notches cut in the end of upright 2x4's or even chair seats if they are the same height. Weights were the biggest hassle, finally got some from one of the mail order catalog places, that may be where the least expensive balancer is. It is not a quick and accurate as a spin balancer, but they start at about $1500 last time I checked. A spin balancer will do both static = weight all directions from the center and dynamic = force inner and outer side. I just split the weight needed as the rims are pretty narrow. I'd like to find a source for the split weights that go on the spokes rather than the stick on flat ones. Even read an article the other day and they are moving away from lead weights for cars and trucks because the get knocked off and break down when run over putting lead dust in the air. Given the density of traffic in LA I can see how if they sampled the air they would find almost all chemicals and metals in some amount. Max |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by barry68v10 on 04/21/07 at 03:00:23 One note on tire/wheel balancing, ceramic beads work great in M/C tires. On all my tubeless tires, I've pulled all the lead weights and gone to the round Airsoft bb's inside the tire. 3-4 ounces per tire, and I've never had to rebalance. In addition, two tires that I've had to rebalance continually, have finally straightened out with the bb's inside the tire. This IS the most effecient/effective way to maintain a balanced tire. Note: whatever material you use, it has to be tough enough to maintain its shape for 100000 miles, must be almost perfectly round, cannot rust or corrode because of moisture, it also can't "clump", and it needs to be relatively dense so enough weight can roll to the right spot to achieve dynamic balancing. |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by justin_o_guy on 04/21/07 at 03:28:00 Wow Barry, If someone had just asked me what i Thot of that idea & how it would work I would have said it would Unballance a tire. Some things I am able to get a mental picture of "How it works" & that one just drew squiggly lines all over my mental blackboard.I guess I dont have to worry how it will work for me, since the 2 bikes we have are running tubes.Tho, shipping the wheel off for sealing & running tubeless would sure be nice, I have other things I want worse than tires I can plug. Gotta have a Piston on the shelf next..OHH, how did you ever come to try that B-B trick? Who did it first? Is he now called B-B King? ( sorry, I inly slept an hour & 1/2 & unfunny things LOOK funny) |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by barry68v10 on 04/21/07 at 03:59:37 Justin-o, here's a company that makes ceramic beads smaller than a valve stem so you can put them in a tubed tire www.innovativebalancing.com. You'll also see a brief "technical" description of how the concept works. Actually, about 40 years ago, truckers were putting actual bb's in their tires and got GREAT short term results. The problem was the bb's would rust into a gooey, clump of rust and create a real mess inside the tire and UNBALANCE the tires. For the concept to work, the item has to roll freely to the "low" or "light" spot in the tire. BTW, this technique won't work with rigid (hard-tail) tires/wheels. |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by barry68v10 on 04/21/07 at 04:01:18 On a similar note, a fluid engine (crank) balancer works by the same principle...think Fluidamper... |
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Title: Re: Metzeler ME 880 help... quick please... Post by justin_o_guy on 04/21/07 at 04:08:22 Thanks, I'll look at that stuff, tho I have quite a few of the "stick on" lead weights for the rear. The front has a Biggo hunk O lead wrapped around a spoke, & when I put the new tire on, it was all good, It atopped at different places when I spun it & didnt back up. I wonder what kind of welt a ceramic B-B would bring up thru a spitwad shootin tube? |
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