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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Impact tools /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1176432283 Message started by skatnbnc on 04/12/07 at 19:44:43 |
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Title: Impact tools Post by skatnbnc on 04/12/07 at 19:44:43 I've got a fairly new bike and am just now getting to the point of needing to work on it seriously rather than day-to-day stuff. Several people have recommended impact screwdrivers et al for working on the Savage. Do you all have any recommendations on what to get (brands) in particular and where? I've got a good socket wrech kit which is working so far, but the dang philips head screws are getting stripped fast. And my allen wrench collection is rapidly decreasing as i snap them apart trying to undo factory tightened bolts. arg!! |
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Title: Re: Impact tools Post by Max_Morley on 04/12/07 at 20:25:58 For good value you can't beat Sears Craftsman, not their companion line. I like a 3/8" dr handheld impact driver as is is plenty big for the fastener sizes we deal with on bikes. When it comes to screwdrivers and the bits for the impact driver, I suggest the tool trucks, Snap-on, MAC, Matco, Cornwell. etc. the extra it costs there I believe is worth it. Max |
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Title: Re: Impact tools Post by Rockin_John on 04/12/07 at 20:44:11 Hello skat, Welcome aboard! An impact screwdriver is an essential tool for working on lots of things. Motorcycles, and specifically Japanese (and now other Asian) in particular. However, don't confuse the word "impact" with meaning the type of pressurized air driven impact wrench used in some shops. In this case the impact screwdriver is a hand held and manually driven. You drive it with a hammer. The combined force of the hammer forcing the bit into the screw head, simultainiously with the turning motion the impact provides, will break loose tough screws with heads that would simply strip if any other tool is used. As for brand recommendation, I have always used a cheap no-name brand of impact driver. What I find much more important is the hammer with which you strike the driver. You want a "dead blow" type hammer. They look like a plastic hand sledge, but the inside of the head is filled with bb sized 'shot' pellets. The hammer will strike the hard metal end of the impact screwdriver without slipping off or bouncing back, either of which are potentially dangerous. Me, I'd get a $10 impact driver set, and a $15 hammer to hit it with. In fact, that's about what mine cost, and they work excellent together. Had my cheap ones for years and still holding up. Looks like you can get them even cheaper now: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=37530 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=33907 |
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Title: Re: Impact tools Post by Rockin_John on 04/12/07 at 21:10:19 Max_Morley wrote:
I agree that some hand tools are worth spending a bit extra on to get a good value of quality. IMHO, Impact drivers are not one of those tools. The 'bits' themselves, and screwdrivers ARE worth searching for good ones. And while Craftsman makes many great tools, their hand screwdrivers have always sucked, and still do. I've bought better fake Snap-on screwdrivers at K-Mart. Generally, as for "pro" quality tools off of the over-priced wagons that troll the mechanic shops to weasle the poor guys out of their paycheck before they can get home with it... No doubt, they're some of the best tools available, but their prices can be just plain stupid hign. I've seen guys pay three to ten times as much for a tool because it said "Snap-on" and it was no better a tool than the Proto, Husky or Craftsman that I've used "professionally." Some for 30+ years and going strong. Oh sure, I've got a few Snap-on tools in my box. Mostly taken on trade or bought used, but I think I bought two tools off of the trucks before I caught on they were scam artists. BTW, I was shopping for tools several places this week, and noticed that some Craftsman tools are now limited to a 3 year guarantee. Not the lower 'Sears' brand, but the real 'Craftsman!' Another American institution going down the drain. |
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Title: Re: Impact tools Post by T140V on 04/12/07 at 23:13:59 I have quite a few Craftsman tools non of wich I would say are of high quality if you compare them to Snap-on, Matco, Mac, Bluepoint and the rest of the tool truck types. The Craftsmen wrenches I have seem to spead out after a few years and can't grip a bolt properly. The higher quality tools won't wear out as easily. I think if you really want to see the difference try holding a Craftsman wrench in one hand and a "Mac" in the other. Next close your eye's and spin the wrench's around and around by their grips. You will notice the Quality tool spins easily as where the Craftsman's will feel clunky and awkward. They have come out with some better wrench's lately but I have no experience with them yet. I'm still takeing the old one's in for replacement as they wear out. |
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Title: Re: Impact tools Post by Rockin_John on 04/13/07 at 01:19:11 T140V wrote:
I agree with you completly about the Craftsman wrenchs "spreading" as I've had them, and seen them do it consistantly. Just as with Craftsman screwdrivers, their wrenchs are junk. OTOH, I've got several of their old fine tooth ratchets with the thumb/finger spinner, and center release button, and I wouldn't trade them for any other ratchet. (Unfortunatly they are the ones Sears got sued over, by stealing someone's idea, and they no longer make or sell them!) There is nothing wrong with several of the Craftsman tools, and as you said, some are a good value. My point is; that there are lots of good tools to be had without overpaying for the fancy slick looking chrome job. In fact, most of my favorite SAE hand tools are a hodge podge of MasterCraft, Thorsen, Proto, Husky, PennCraft etc... Good tools bought cheap one by one at pawn shops. One reason they are favorites, is that I can recognize them at a distance; because they all have a distictive look. I have 'sets' of tools that stay nice and organized in their little trays and drawer racks... But when I go to work on something I habitually pick up my 'old favorites.' This method works good for me with screwdrivers too. I know from looking at a screw's shape which old #1 or #2 will fit well; because we all know that they're not created equal ;) Let's see... hmm... do I pick up the 12" long Excelite #1 with the clear/yellow handle, or the 6" blk/yellow handled Stanley? It depends on what the screw looks like. When I usually do break into my 'sets' is when having to work on metric stuff; because I didn't begin collecting metric tools seriously until 8-10 years ago. The shop I was in at the time started doing a lot of remanufacturing of German equipment, which meant of course, we had to adjust to working with more metric. A lot of my old SAE tools have been around 30-40 years. Your comment about "spinning" a tool to judge it's quality reminds me of an old story: A guy goes to apply for a job as a mechanic... The boss picks up a ball peen hammer and tosses it into the air. It flips around three times and then he grabs it mid-air. Then he asks the applicant "You think you can you do that?" The prospective employee says "Sure, I can do that!" The boss tells him "I don't need you then. Look out in the shop, I've got two guys standing around out there doing that right now!" ;D |
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Title: Re: Impact tools Post by justin_o_guy on 04/13/07 at 02:32:27 "Impact tools"?? Heck yea! I have several of them. Depending on what needs the impact, I have several hammers just waiting to smack the crap outta something. From body hammers to ball peen, claw hammer, 2 pound, 3 pound , 4 pound, 6 pound & a 10 pounder.Now, wheres your bike? LOL.. Seriously, I've never used one of those hammer actuated impact tools, but have considered buying one. I would go the low buck route on the actual tool, because the design of the internals is so simple & they are so clunky thay are all made to stand up long enough to get your $$ worth. My opinion, no experience.I would definitely go for quality on the bits, as someone else said. If you have the space in the garage & billfold, Harbor Freight has a compressor for about $150.00 & a 3/8 inch & 1/2 impact dont have to cost an arm & a leg.A 1/4 air ratchet sure comes in handy removing & replacing side covers. Sometimes they can be found at an affordable price. Pawn shop? |
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Title: Re: Impact tools Post by Kropatchek on 04/13/07 at 03:12:37 Few monts ago I picked up an electrical impact driver working on 12volt. Cheap, at 25$ at the food supermarket. They have every week another tool or other non-food stuff on offer. Back to subject. Working on the Savage and its engine it proved to be very usefull for LOOSENING nuts and blolts. For tightening I use high quality tools such as Stahlwille, Belzer, Proxxon, Bahco and Snap-On. Never use an impact driver for tightening. |
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Title: Re: Impact tools Post by skatnbnc on 04/13/07 at 06:36:02 The pawn shop idea ROCKS! I saw some fantastic tools in there last visit and at the time did not even think about kitting out my bike repair box from there. I greatly appreciate the help with this topic. Off to the shop this weekend! |
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Title: Re: Impact tools Post by Rockin_John on 04/13/07 at 07:52:02 skatnbnc wrote:
While you're shopping, keep an eye out for an allen head socket set. It might cure your breaking wrenches problem, but I've broken the socket type too. But they sure are nice to use until you break them! ;) |
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Title: Re: Impact tools Post by vroom1776 on 04/13/07 at 08:40:55 a word on tool trucks... my dad has a Matco franchise. The tools are good, but big $$$. A lot of what you are paying for is service (i.e. when you break a tool, the tool man will show up with a new one). You will not be getting this service, really. Also, my father, who's been doing this for 20 years or so, says that small time buyers are mostly a pain in the neck, and not worth the time. So unless you ahve easy acces to one, I'd say stick w/ craftsman, or whatever you can afford. A word on cheap tools, e.g. Harbor Freight. Cheap tools are just that, cheap. Typically they will break more and strip more screws and bolts, at least in my experience. Harbor Freight tools are fine as long as they don't have important sizes associated with them, or will not hurt you if physically if they fail. For example, allen wrenches, NO! Angle grinder, Yes! Pry bars, NO! Unibits, yes! The allen wrenches will strip anything youy put them into, and/or snap. The angle grinder will be fine, and when it melts, get another one for $16. The pry bars will snap. go flying, and hurt you, or your knuckles will get smashed. While the unibits do have sizes associated with them, they are for making holes in sheet metal which it will (USUALLY) be okay if it's a bit big or small... if you need a precise hole, get a real drill bit. I've ahd good luck with wrenches I got at Checker automotive. Innexpesive, don't slip. good quality. |
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Title: Re: Impact tools Post by skatnbnc on 04/13/07 at 10:53:15 Okay I am back from the pawn shop with an impact tool and several interchanging pieces $24, and a set of allen wrenches on a ring thrown in for free. Related question - is it okay for me to use my regular hammer, or should i stick with the rubber mallet? |
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Title: Re: Impact tools Post by Rockin_John on 04/13/07 at 14:21:41 skatnbnc wrote:
You'll get nowhere with a rubber mallet, and the "regular" hammer will bounce, which is both a nuisance and can be a hazard. As I posted to you before: Use a shot filled "dead blow" hammer. Very different from a "rubber mallet." They don't bounce (rebound) and all the inertia will be transfered to the impact driver. Worth every penny. Great for beating on other stuff too. Axles, are a good example of something where a dead blow hammer is great. |
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Title: Re: Impact tools Post by Max_Morley on 04/13/07 at 16:37:39 Dead blow works fine, but I prefer a brass hammer as it doesn't peen over the edges of the attack driver (name on the box mine came in years ago). Max |
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Title: Re: Impact toolsnuisance Post by skatnbnc on 04/13/07 at 20:49:23 You'll get nowhere with a rubber mallet, and the "regular" hammer will bounce, which is both a nuisance and can be a hazard. As I posted to you before: Use a shot filled "dead blow" hammer. Very different from a "rubber mallet." They don't bounce (rebound) and all the inertia will be transfered to the impact driver. Worth every penny. - yes i looked for a deadblow at the shop. saw a really old one, may go back and get it. i was just 'hoping' that i could get away with something i already had on hand. oh well.... |
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Title: Re: Impact tools Post by Rockin_John on 04/13/07 at 22:28:19 Max_Morley wrote:
You can bet that tool was made in Japan; because that translation is most certainly "Engrish." http://www.engrish.com/ I've got a few brass hammers too. One large one left over from a place where I worked which required me to drop in a lot of bronze bushings into these gigantic nitrogen over oil suspensions (like a huge McPherson strut). We had to heat the bore to several hundred degrees with a rosebud, while the bronze bushing sat in a tub of liquid nitrogen. Then when you drop the bushing into the bore, and the temp. equalizes, the resulting interference fit is more tight than any press fit possible. The reason for the large brass hammers was: if a bushing got crooked while being dropped in, you only had a few seconds to get it straight, and to the bottom of the bore before the temp. started to equalize. Once that happened, and if the bushing wasn't all the way in, you had just boogerd up several thousand dollars of bushing; which had to be cut out; because a 40 ton press wouldn't budge it! Mess that process up often and the boss isn't going to like you much! Anyways, brass is softer than bronze, and you could whang away hard on the bushings without denting them (much). The small brass hammers I own are for setting nickle silver frets in the fingerboards of guitars. Once again, the brass is softer and doesn't mess up the alloy frets. In my 20s I worked in a shop with an old lead man who would cuss you for swinging the sledge hammer like a sissy while he held the drive bar!!! On that job I learned to be a real "steel drivin' man." Never hit the old man once. |
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Title: Re: Impact tools Post by T140V on 04/14/07 at 14:32:29 Rockin_John wrote:
That's an old one Rockin_John. It's good though. I guess I should have used the word " turn " instead of " Spin ". I didn't mean spin like a drum stick, I meant turn like a screwdriver. Sometimes you have to turn a wrench over and over in order to get in a tight spot. Of course you would only do that if you were really working. ;D |
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Title: Re: Impact toolsnuisance Post by Rockin_John on 04/14/07 at 15:30:03 skatnbnc wrote:
Pardon me... Sorry about my mistake where I added "nuisance" to the subject line... A slip of the old cut-n-paste. |
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