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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> NOT a battery question? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1176427367 Message started by skatnbnc on 04/12/07 at 18:22:47 |
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Title: NOT a battery question? Post by skatnbnc on 04/12/07 at 18:22:47 Have an 06, and had super fun with it since purchase last year. I've been riding all winter, and just began to have a problem with starting. Both times, i had already been out on the bike, then went back to head home and could not start it. Both times i was eventually able to get it going, but had no clue how or why it finally started. Lights on, neutral lite fine, horn works; but no ignition or start (no choke or throttle problems). Went through all the normal checks, and took the seat off to make certain everything was connected. All good. The one thing I found was it appears there is no fluid in the battery window. So the manaul says to add distilled water if the battery window shows low fluid...HOW do you do that?? Taking it out is a MAJOR expedition, so any assistance in avoiding that would be great. BTW - thanks to the article on those dog-gone flimsy screws, i have one soaking under wd40 hoping for loosening by the weekend when the whole thing gets a work down. The hammer and screwdriver technique has already been tried. Being a girl with hardly any upper body strength is a pain when you are trying to work on your bike! |
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Title: Re: battery question Post by Reelthing on 04/12/07 at 19:02:23 Hey welcome aboard. Almost pulling the battery to check and fill with water is a required task for the stock wet cell battery - if you want to save yourself the headache in the future replace it with an AGM battery like the Big Crank - be the best 50 bucks you can spend on your bike. |
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Title: Re: battery question Post by skatnbnc on 04/12/07 at 19:07:34 Ummm...okay, I'll pull it this weekend, but I am still clueless even after reading the oh-so-not-technical manual. Once the battery is out, does the top come off? Where do you put the water? I ride to and from the office daily, so this is a pressing concern (as in i need to get it fixed pronto). And i will check out the alternative battery type - this is too much fussing around when i just want to be out riding! |
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Title: Re: battery question Post by Reelthing on 04/12/07 at 19:13:05 yes - there are caps that screw off or a strip that lifts up to add water |
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Title: Re: battery question Post by georgekathe on 04/12/07 at 19:19:42 I to have an AGM battery (not a big crank as my used bike came with a new battery - will replace in due course with much recommended big crank) - maintenance free living! As it is you need to pull the battery - a bit of a pain hence recommend an AGM if yours is shot. As your battery is/was out of fluid it may be wrecked, but recommend you take it out, fill to correct markings on each cell (with distilled not tap water - such as you'd put in an iron) & charge it with the cell tops off on a low charge - it might be OK. remember - no sparks or lit matches/cigs around a battery when caps are off & it is charging - it can explode (I'm not kidding!) maybe you are lucky & it will then hold a charge (a car parts place may be able to check if it is shot for you - call them before taking it in & keep level when transporting in car. |
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Title: Re: battery question Post by Greg_650 on 04/13/07 at 11:23:16 skatnbnc wrote:
Obviously, you don't have much experience with batteries. As they say, "Just Do It." But disconnect the negative battery cable on the left side before anything else. That means talking off the seat and possibly the left side cover, first. Then go to the right side and do the rest. That will save you surprises, and maybe fuses, too :P |
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Title: Re: battery question Post by Rockin_John on 04/13/07 at 14:11:15 skatnbnc wrote:
Addendum to other's recommedations: I take the battery all the way out (standard electrolytic non-maintenance free type). Either use a basting bulb, or go to a Vet and get a LARGE syringe like they use on big animals. Either work well for adding small measureable amounts of distilled water. Oh... and not all of the little caps unscrew from batteries that have them; some you just pull out like a cork. I agree with others... Big Crank maintenence free Gel cell battery is some very well spent money. |
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Title: Re: battery question Post by georgekathe on 04/13/07 at 17:07:02 just a suggestion - like I said I don't have a Big Crank just another brand AGM battery, but to help skatnbnc maybe someone who does could give him the Big Crank serial number for the type they have which will fit his bike to a "T" just a thought... :) |
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Title: Re: battery question Post by albb6 on 04/13/07 at 17:15:01 try this....this is the one I have....fit perfectly http://www.batterymart.com/c-suzuki-l650-savage-all-1986-2002.html I got the battery tender jr. with it as well |
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Title: Re: battery question Post by skatnbnc on 04/13/07 at 20:43:49 Sweet - y'all ROCK! :-* After reading all this I feel MUCH better about pulling the battery tomorrow. Yes, I know nothing about batteries (other than the explosive thing), YES i am a newbie to bikes, and YES i am learning as i go. Can't wait to try my new impact tools but if it turns out wanky tomorrow, I'll get the suggested replacement, if for no other reason than not to have to do this again anytime soon. Thanks ever so much for the advice - love it! |
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Title: Re: battery question Post by skatnbnc on 04/14/07 at 11:52:33 This morning I followed the instructions you guys gave me and....SUCCESS!!! Impact tools worked like a charm, battery removed, distilled water filled the little yellow capped holes (using the turkey baster - sweet tip), and finally replacement, then ZOOM ZOOM! That was just plain EASY! No wonder you all thought i was crazy for even asking. I rode to the store a bit ago, and everything is great. Thanks to all for the help, I appreciate it very much! :) |
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Title: Re: battery question Post by Greg_650 on 04/14/07 at 12:03:50 Great! Another Suzuki Savage Success Story (should be referred to "4S" from now on) |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by skatnbnc on 04/17/07 at 10:05:29 Okay guys - the same problem is BACK! ??? I added distilled water to the battery (which it needed) last Saturday. Bike started right up and has been run twice since then. Rode to work this morning, rode to an errand, came out 5 minutes later and the bike would not start. Same symptoms as before: all lights work, horn, flashers fine. Choke adjusted, bike still very warm from being run a few minutes earlier. No starter action. Waited 5 minutes, tried again, nothing. Waited 5 more minutes, bike started right up no hesitation. What the?? Hmmm. Anyone have any OTHER ideas as to the problem or what I need to check? |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Reelthing on 04/17/07 at 10:27:16 do you have a digital volt meter? - you need to know the voltage for sure. when it does this do you hear a click at all? |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Dr_Jim on 04/17/07 at 11:02:37 - |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/17/07 at 11:49:16 skatnbnc wrote:
You're right, the same problem is back, but I don't think the battery was the problem to begin with... It's an '06? Too new to have a battery problem really (if everything is done right). Pardon me, but let's go back to the beginning. Are you sure that you've read and understand your owners manual and how to operate the bike? A problem battery isn't gonna get a recharge after sitting for 10-15 minutes (while trying to start it, checking the horn and lights, and anything else) What are you not doing? Or what are you doing that you don't realize? I'm sure that when this happens, you are doing everything imaginable and when it starts, you can't really remember what you did. Let's check your understanding of these... - Kill switch - Clutch switch - Side stand switch - Neutral indicator |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by billy on 04/17/07 at 12:12:08 This might be helpful, if I start my bike with the kickstand down some times the Decompression Solenoid' will hit but the starter will not so I have learned to start it with the stand in the up position and in neutral. With the stand down if I keep hitting it it will eventually start but with the stand up it starts first time everytime. After it starts i can put the stand down if I need to for some reason. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by skatnbnc on 04/17/07 at 14:38:03 Yes, I too thought I might not be going through the correct starting procedure. I double checked everything, to the point of getting off the bike and starting from ground zero with the manual in hand. This is exactly what I do: 1. insert key and turn to ON (not Park!) 2. Neutral light comes on (as does headlamp) 3. Pull out choke button 4. Press red kill button to ON position 5. Depress and hold (squeeze) clutch lever 6. Press ignition switch At this point I either get silence or VROOM. Mind you all - I have NEVER had it not start from cold first try. This starting issue only shows up after I've been riding and stop, then go back shortly to ride again. I physically got off the bike and then back on after 10 minutes. Again, I checked ALL the wiring connections thinking it might be a wire getting squished or uncoupled when I sit down. Nada. I've tried starting withthe kickstand up and down because of that funky button thing on the kickstand that can stall you out if it is not up when you switch from neutral to 1st gear. There does NOT seem to be any noise when I press the starter button. Not even a click. As pointed out previously this bike is practically BRAND NEW. I've ridden weekly from Sept when I purchased it all through the winter. This starting issue has just begun within the past 4 weeks. I'm stumped! :P |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by grandpa on 04/17/07 at 15:09:53 Let's revisit the battery!!! You say you can't see water. Starts good cold. Won't start when hot. I would say you are on teh verge of complete battery failure because....the battery works fine when cold. When being charged the battery gets hot, especially with low water. It takes just one cell plate to short killing off one cell. thus no start when the battery is hot. The battery cools and the plate unwarps giving you a good battery. Eventually the plate won't unwarp and you will be Fred Flintstoning it!!!. How do I know?? 20 + years of aircraft maintenance and 5 years of running an Autozone store. Have seen the same scenario over and over!! If you had an older model that kept the headlight on during start you would see the voltage drop under a load. The only way on yours is to hook up a meter. You will have 13.5 volts until you hit the starter. Because the lights don't pull much amps they will look normal. As soon as you hit the starter button the volts will drop way off. Now if I was a betting man..... but I'm not!! Get some water in the battery and sllooowww charge it and you might save it. Best thing is to splurge and go new. You are probably not far away from needing it anyway. Don't work for the 'Zone anymore BTW. Became too much pressure to sell people what they didn't need to help push the stock prices up!!!! I sleep good at night !! Good luck !!!! |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by skatnbnc on 04/17/07 at 15:18:24 After refilling the original battery last Saturday, I CAN see water and it is between the level lines in the view markers. Is it worth getting a new battery and installing it to see if this is really the cause? |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by grandpa on 04/17/07 at 15:44:31 I hate to spend your money, that's why I'm not at the 'Zone. Without putting a load test (ie meter and hit the start button, it's really just a real good bet based on what you're describing. Call your local parts stores and see if they can test a lawn mower/ motorcycle battery. I still shop the 'Zone. I see they have all new testing equipment in our area. I haven't had the need to use it yet to check it out. If they can load test the rating on your battery, that would be the best way. may want them to charge it and get it warmed up first. make sure they don't dial in too many amps for the test. If your battery is not bad it will be. Remember they are under pressure to sell, sell, sell. Battery grease, ant-sieze, battery washers at the point of sale. I would rather buy a several year supply in a large can/bottle for just a little more. Excuse me !! I digressed from your battery. If it were me I would buy a new one and eliminate the most likely culprit making sure all the connections are squeaky clean. Had a customer who knew it all insisted his battery connections were clean (they looked pretty good). He changed a starter, alternator, starter solenoid (Ford truck) and still no start. I cleaned his positive terminal that had just a light white film of corrosion inside of the cable next to the post. Outwardly looked great!!. Fired right off. He then wanted to bring all the parts back!!!!! For anybody else I would have done it but he was just so obnoxious I refused. No return on installed electrical parts that are still good!!! Again I digressed. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/17/07 at 15:54:23 Maybe you mentioned it and I forgot... When did you buy this 2006 and how many miles so far? |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/17/07 at 21:38:17 skatnbnc wrote:
Okay. I'm gonna advance your newbie status. It does seem like you're thinking about all of it very well...Just didn't want you to come back and say, "I forgot the kill switch" :P The bike was new or used in Sept '06, but that still makes no sense for a battery issue. You should get about 3 years out of a stock wet cell.... You filled the battery last weekend and it worked better for a while... No click or nothing...a low battery will usually give you a click at the solenoid, relay or starter. Nothing isn't normal (if that makes sense)...this is the key part. <Both our batteries finally expired just this last winter, so I'm pretty fresh on that sound. Both were over 3 years old though> What about the previous owner? Did he do anything to the bike at all? Any accessories or lights? Do you always have a neutral light when you think it should be on? Have you looked real close to make sure the clutch lever switch is connected correctly? Have you looked real close at the side stand switch to be sure it works on the side stand correctly? Are you sure about the ignition key switch position every time (have to ask)? Battery makes no sense to me. It has to be something else.... |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Reelthing on 04/17/07 at 22:27:35 skatnbnc wrote:
No it is not - it is worth buying a ~$10-$15 digital multimeter. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by skatnbnc on 04/18/07 at 06:14:16 >>What about the previous owner? Did he do anything to the bike at all? Any accessories or lights?<< No accessories (other than the aforementioned HD pipe), no other changes. She barely put 700 miles on it, then bought a HD because she wanted something more 'substantial'. >>Do you always have a neutral light when you think it should be on?<< YES. >>Have you looked real close to make sure the clutch lever switch is connected correctly?<< YES. In fact I pulled the rubber cover off to make sure it was good there too. >>Have you looked real close at the side stand switch to be sure it works on the side stand correctly?<< Yep. No problems there. >>Are you sure about the ignition key switch position every time (have to ask)?<< YES because it is such a pain to have that NOT handy feature of the parking lite. Is it time to go to the stealership? (please say no...) :-[ |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Kropatchek on 04/18/07 at 08:41:14 Took me a while to go to all the posts, but here's my 2 bits: Battery with low liquidlevel, filled up with water and recharged. Maybe the battery is f$$$d The starter or the kill-switch button makes NO contact |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/18/07 at 10:12:47 Dealer is the very last option. We don't want to send a "girl" in there alone :P 2 points to get clear here: +++++++++++++++ How much water did you have to add to the battery? Were any of the cells below the "low" level line on the side? Or did you just add a little bit to each cell? Did you really feel like the battery needed water after you went through all that trouble? +++++++++++ Did you say that there was NO CLICK OR SOUND, at all, of any kind, from anywhere when this problem happens? NONE? |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by grandpa on 04/18/07 at 10:44:47 Greg - can't judge a battery by it's age. Seen too many people change everything else because the battery was only a year old. I sold auto batteries made by Johnson Controls (Every AutoZone and Diehard battery among other brand name batteries). Reputation to be the best battery in the business. There is a reason there is a warranty on batteries. Stacks of plates and solder joints all subject to failure. A battery that is allowed to run an extended time low on water is subject to early failure. I fully agree that trouble shooting should be first!! However the symptoms are a possible battery shorting out when warm. Have seen it way to much. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by skatnbnc on 04/18/07 at 11:14:59 I went and purchased a voltage meter a few minutes ago. (no problems starting for that errand, go figure) I am assuming I need to take the battery out again and test it, or not take it out? What is the best way to test this? And I know someone mentioned what the meter should read, and now I cannot find that post. :P - - - - - - - - >>How much water did you have to add to the battery?<< About 2 turkey baster full for 6 cells. (3/4 cup total maybe?) >>Were any of the cells below the "low" level line on the side?<< YES. >>Or did you just add a little bit to each cell?<< YES i added some to each cell to bring them all up to the midline level marker. Some cells needed more water than others. >>Did you really feel like the battery needed water after you went through all that trouble?<< Yes because about 3 out of 6 cells were really low (below the LOW line) and the rest were close. >>Did you say that there was NO CLICK OR SOUND, at all, of any kind, from anywhere when this problem happens? NONE? << No sound. Nada. No click, no noise like it makes when it decides to actually start (i can HEAR the click before the starter then - just a split second) - - - - - - - - - - Soooo depending on the meter reading, I might need a new battery. I did save the weblink you guys gave to the enclosed cell type. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Savage_Rob on 04/18/07 at 11:20:27 skatnbnc wrote:
Yes, but a multimeter won't do it. It should be load tested and if you don't have a load tester, take it to either Sears or Autozone. They'll test it for free. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by skatnbnc on 04/18/07 at 11:39:22 Voltage meter not going work. Ohhhkay. How do the gargage guys test it? Does the battery have to come out? I ask because I want to know BEFORE i go there. Same problem as mentioned earlier - its a girl thing. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Reelthing on 04/18/07 at 11:52:08 Yes you can check the battery while it is in the bike - black to ground any where on the bike that has no paint and is metal and red to the plus side of the battery - you should be able to see it. This needs to be done after the bike has sat several hours without a charger on it to allow the float charge to bleed off - first thing in the morning after it sits over night is good - it should read over 12.4v hopefully 12.8 or above. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by skatnbnc on 04/18/07 at 12:31:14 Thanks for the continued support during this issue. I'll see if I can get this load tested Thur or Friday. Possibly Sat, but a number of garages are closed on the weekend here. :P Anything else I can or need to do between now and then, or just get it checked then go from there? |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Reelthing on 04/18/07 at 12:37:05 what do the volts read? |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/18/07 at 15:20:34 grandpa wrote:
No you can't, but let's face it. The battery isn't a year old and it hasn't been run very long. It's not very likely or common. I had one with a broken internal buss a few years ago. It had all the voltage but no amps. Read it with a meter just fine, but no load. But rather than telling her what I think, I'm trying to find out what she sees and knows. I don't want to suggest that she get a new battery and then she come back and start this thread all over again...with me being her cause for wasted money either. In my time in this forum, I've seen a lot of unnecessary parts purchased... |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/18/07 at 15:34:21 skatnbnc wrote:
Good that you got a meter. Be real handy from now on... Sorry, if you think I'm being redundant, but I stated my reasons above. I can't see or hear what you have and I never rush to judgment with someone else's money. I just ask all this because intermittent problems can be the most deceiving of them all. What appears to be a dead battery, can just as easily be a bad connection in a very small wire on your handlebar... Okay. 3/4 of a cup total does seem a bit much. Does it turn over rapidly when it does start, or does it sound like it's doing all that it can do? If it does, then pull the battery and take it to Auto Zone for a load test. PS - don't get battery acid on things you care about :P |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by albb6 on 04/18/07 at 15:48:53 my battery went dead over the winter so I went out and got a sealed battery and a Battery tender jr. After changing it, I put the charger on the old battery and it charged up nicely. So I guess you could say that i Bought a new battery for nothing, But I see it as peace of mind. And now I have a back-up if I ever need one. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Reelthing on 04/18/07 at 15:57:23 Greg_650 wrote:
Certainly agree with all of this. By the way is the bike still in warranty? |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by grandpa on 04/18/07 at 15:59:14 skatnbnc- you can improvise a test with your battery in your bike with your meter. Hook your positive meter lead to the positive battery lead. The negative test lead can hook on any unpainted surface. Engine bolts or cooling fins work great. Assuming you are doing a cold start, your battery voltage should be appx 13.5 volts. Start your bike. During the time your starter is turning, the voltage will drop a volt or so. Assuming it starts just fine, run it until you think it won't and repeat the test. If you have a no start and your voltage drops to 2 or 3 volts then it's a 99% chance your battery is bad. The only real way to be 100 % is a load test out of your bike. The battery tester in my old "Zone store would only go down to a 200 amp load test ( auto batterys are 400 +). I would imagine our bike battery is 100 or less. Would need to check the owners manual or the battery catalog to be sure. If a parts store can not do it, possible a small engine repair shop might be able to test it. Have never tried one but a motorcycle battery and riding lawn mower batteries are one and the same. Greg - we have the same goal in mind. Just don't want to write off the battery because it's only a year old. I spent five years at the 'Zone and gave it up because I ran into conflicts with upper management because I went out of my way to test parts as much as possible and save my customers money. That is contrary to the the stock holders desire. I was moved to several different stores that had sales problems and pulled appx 20 % of my customer base with every move even though they had to drive across town. In spite of saving my customers money, I had the highest average ticket sale of any store in town. Go figure that one out. I certainly don't know it all and will never claim to. We are all in the same boat together. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Reelthing on 04/18/07 at 16:16:57 grandpa wrote:
Let's get this sorted out - a rested battery (say no charge put to it in anyway over night) - that is one that has bled off the float charge is not going to measure 13.5volts. 12.8v is likely to be the high end and 12.4v the low end - below that it will not reliably fire the savage. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Savage_Rob on 04/19/07 at 06:16:13 Greg_650 wrote:
And if you think you just might accidentally spill a little, keep some baking soda handy while you're messing with it to neutralize any spills. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by skatnbnc on 04/19/07 at 06:35:36 You guys, I really appreciate all the advice, but I am starting to feel like I'm in over my head. I've never used a meter, and never charged a battery. As an added bonus, when I got home last night, the voltage meter was not in the bag (there were other items purchsed). In calling the store I discovered it was still sitting on the counter. So until I go back to pick that up, I cannot do a test. Meanwhile, in re-reading the posts on this topic, something came back to me. The orginal owner talked about finding out the hard way that the last position on the ignition switch is for PARK. And I never have been able to see water in the battery window. So two things are applicable ~ the battery has been run for months with low water, and the previous owner drained the battery at least once previously. In plain english please tell me this: - can I use the voltage meter I purchased to test the bike battery? If not I will return it. - if the voltage is too low should I try recharging or just go for the new battery? - where can I get the current battery properly re-charged? Each bit of advice seems to narrow down the options so it is a good thing to have the forum! |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/19/07 at 09:41:55 grandpa wrote:
Yep. Just gotta remember that we are the stock holders here. You won't have to change stores either :P Besides, I know I was a newbie once ;D |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/19/07 at 09:49:01 skatnbnc wrote:
Ask yourself this...Do you want to do your own bike troubleshooting or minor repairs? If you answered yes, then keep the meter. As for recharging...I don't believe that anyone is suspecting your battery is low on charge, so why a charger at this point? If your bike starts the first time, then the charge is good. It is other possibilities that we are discussing. There is a difference between full charge and full load. That's why the suggestion for a load test. A meter will tell you the charge on the battery. A load test will tell you about the battery's strength. If the load test indicates bad, then you need a new battery. If the load test indicates good, then most likely you will have a use for the meter. If you answered yes, get a charger too. If you answered no, then go to the dealer. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by skatnbnc on 04/19/07 at 12:02:40 Difference on load vs charge - THANK YOU for clarification. Will swing the bike over to a shop soon (tommorrow maybe) and get the LOAD checked. When I went to the store to pick up the meter, the guy said the meter will help only if it is not a load problem (confirming all your helpful advice). He also looked at me as if i was insane when I told him I was going to take it apart and work on it myself this weekend. Why does wearing a skirt get me this kind of response?! :P |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by verslagen1 on 04/19/07 at 13:39:36 some of the auto stores that sell batteries also test them for free. but I don't know if they also sell m/c batteries. in a skirt? was that a questioning look appraising your sanity or a look of insane desire to watch? ;D |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/19/07 at 21:10:07 skatnbnc wrote:
Next time wear your chaps. No confusion :) |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by smokey02 on 04/19/07 at 22:27:06 I had an intermittant starting problem last year, I finally got some Q-tips and Laquer thinner together and took my Kill and Start switches apart, (watch out for the small springs and stuff) cleaned the black road grunge out and put them back together, the problem starting thing went away, maybe I was lucky? Might be worth a try tho, the contacts in these switches are small and it doesn't take much dirt to mess them up. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/19/07 at 22:35:47 Or the other thing happens...you take it apart and fix it without knowing it and then think the q-tips did it :P Darned gremlins... |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Max_Morley on 04/19/07 at 22:50:51 If you have some help and want to do a load simulation test with the new meter you bought, here is the drill. When we load test a battery we put the specified number of amps load on it with a testing device and look at the voltage after 15 seconds, minimum is 9.6V. Voltage when you start the test if the engine has not been run for an hour or so should be 12.6V * with the key off, there is another couple tests but for now we will ignore them. Connect the DVOM (meter) to the battery+ and - posts (seat has to be off for ease of connections). Then, observing the meter while your helper cranks with the throttle turn WFO (wide full open) so it won't start, the voltage should not go below 10.V after cranking to a count of 3 ten thousand. As this is shorter time and at a lighter load than a cold weather, cold engine crank that is why we use a 10,V minimum for this test. If your DVOM records Min/Max/Average , then read how to use that feature and you don't need any help as you can focus on the bike controls and let the meter record and then look at the numbers. * a 12V battery is 6ea. 2.1V cells in series = 12.6 volts open circuit (no load) when fully charged and the surface charge from recent charging is removed. If the voltage reading is below 12.4 volts the battery needs to be charged before testing using this method. A DVOM (Digital Volt Ohm Meter) must be used as an analog (needle type) meter will not read accurately enough and the meter movement draws a load so it the first voltage test is not really open circuit. FWIW, these #'s are good for your cage, ATV, boat starting battery or whatever. Max |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by smokey02 on 04/19/07 at 22:59:54 There was actually lots of black gunk in the switches, so I'm convinced the Q-tips and laquer thinner helped. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by skatnbnc on 04/20/07 at 07:00:40 That starter cleaning I may try based on whatever happens after the battery load check today. I saw on another thread the comment that people use this list to get help doing things themselves rather than go to the stealership. And i was asked how much work I want to do on my bike. The answer is - you guys help me decide what I think I can handle on my own, and when I need to finally bend over and pass the soap. For certain I will be doing my own oil changes, regular maintenance and possibly some modifications down the road. I can say that changing a tire is out of my range because I am one person without much muscle power to handle that on my own, no matter how many fancy wrenches or irons I buy - and I know this now because I read the tire changing thread. End result is that I take what you all have to say, and go from there. I appreciate all the input, which has resulted in my being able to do more than I thought on my own. :D Yea team! |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/20/07 at 09:26:44 smokey02 wrote:
Okie dokie :P |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/20/07 at 09:29:07 skatnbnc wrote:
As the He said, "A man's got to know his limitations"....Lady Savages too :P |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/20/07 at 09:32:06 Max_Morley wrote:
Good write up Max. Well explained. Even I'll be able to remember that. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by skatnbnc on 04/20/07 at 12:00:06 A trip to the AutoZone resulted in nada as they said their machine 'doesn't do motorcycles'. A trip to the gas station ended up getting me riled because the attendant refused to allow me to add air to my own rear tire, ended up dropping my psi lower than when i started, and finally got a tiny bit of air in and said that was all the tire would take (23 psi when it is supposed to be at 33). Urg. >:( Went from there to the local stealership as the only place in town that can check MC battery load. And, are you all ready for this ~ Put your helmets on! I told them why I wanted the battery checked, so the head mechanic came out ot the parking lot, sat on my bike and tried to start it more than a DOZEN times.....without engaging the clutch. I am at the SUZUKI motorcycle dealership service dept with my SUZUKI bike....and they don't know how to start it. I stood there and watched him silently, getting madder by the second. So he finally figures out that little trick (duh) and says after starting and stopping my bike multiple times, that he thinks the starter button has something in it and it needs replaced. I said fine, I'll take it apart and clean it myself, get off my bike you moron, see ya bye. They did put air in my tire for free....gee thanks, glad I didn't push the knowledge envelope there. (I checked after them with my digital tire guage and they did actually get the pressure correct). So, as stated earlier, I'll take the starter button apart this weekend and see if it does the trick. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by verslagen1 on 04/20/07 at 14:12:12 OK, everyone stand up! Bravo! Bravo! ;D |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/20/07 at 15:33:21 So, after the "head mechanic" couldn't start your bike, do you really think he'd know if the starter button has a problem? That's just the first thing that he'd change if you brought it in for repair. The second would probably be the starter relay. The third would be the decompression module. Forth would be the battery...and he'd never "troubleshoot" anything! Just replace parts and write your bill. It's not just Suzuki. All dealers do it....but that's why you've found yourself at SuzukiSavage.com isn't it? Welcome to the forum for fixing your bike. Time to break out the phillips screwdriver, q-tips and open the starter button.... ;D PS - you might have to use a hammer with that screwdriver to break those screws loose too. PSS - put an old towel or blanket over your tank before you start :P |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/20/07 at 15:36:02 verslagen1 wrote:
Exactly...my hats off to the Lady Savage. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by skatnbnc on 04/21/07 at 06:07:33 Greg_650 wrote:
Dude - they made me sign a work order saying I would pay $20 to have it looked at, and he never even load tested the battery!!! Not like I was gonna let him after that performance either. Needless to say I left them with the work order unpaid . Yep the impact tools are coming back out this morning, and thanks for the tank towel tip - I am rather proud of how shiny my bike looks even with daily riding to work. And I printed out Max's notes on battery checking, so if this does not work, there are other options to try. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Savage_Rob on 04/21/07 at 07:24:15 verslagen1 wrote:
No doubt. Skatnbnc, well done! I wouldn't pay for a f**ktard to sit on my bike and demonstrate how clue-free he was either. Watch out for easy-to-lose springs when you open the starter button assembly. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by JJulian on 04/21/07 at 07:25:27 I'm a little late joining this thread, but I noticed nobody mentioned the voltage regulator. It seems that the low water level in a fairly new battery would indicate that it's been overcharging. I don't know much about Suzuki's regulator/rectifiers tho--maybe somone smarter than me can pick up on this. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/21/07 at 07:27:33 skatnbnc wrote:
Dudette, Now getting back to the original problem (or lack there of). Just how many times did that bad battery get your bike started yesterday? ;D I think that I'd be looking all over that bike. As long as it is starting you will have a hell of a time finding the problem. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Savage_Rob on 04/21/07 at 07:37:17 skatnbnc wrote:
Back to the original symptoms.... Either she starts or does nothing at all. No clicks, cranks or anything at all. While there are a number of possibilities (the starter switch amongst them), the most common I've seen on this site has been the "safety" interlocks, usually the kickstand's switch. I would check to be sure it's not loose and then try bypassing it. If that's not it, try the clutch interlock next. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by verslagen1 on 04/21/07 at 08:09:09 There are 3 interlocks (that I know of) kickstand, clutch, neutral. With the kickstand up, it will start in gear with the clutch pulled in. ;D |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/21/07 at 08:13:55 Yes... and yes... 8) |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by skatnbnc on 04/21/07 at 11:56:42 I went over the bike today with a fine tooth comb. Took the starter apart, found nothing wrong, but cleaned it anyway. Well, there were spiderwebs in there so I cleaned that out (how DO they get in there!??) Went over the rest of the bike in the warm bright sunshine thinking, "I should be out riding!!" Put the starter back together, spray painted over some frame scratches, scrubs the bugs out of the tiny spaces, made new attachments for my saddlebags so now they snap off in seconds (a thought that occured after having to untie the dang leather thongs 4 times yesyerday in my repair attempt adventures). No loose wires, no loose connections, no loose screws, no pinched wires, all wiggly items oiled, all other items spanking clean, tight were supposed to be, and she starts right up. So I am going to take her out late this afternoon and again tomorrow to see how it goes. I will of course let you all know how long this lasts....! ;) |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/21/07 at 13:41:14 Hope you have your MoTow card with you :P |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by justin_o_guy on 04/21/07 at 13:43:40 skatnbnc wrote:
My 05 S40 started doing that. It would just die as I slowed down after it warmed up, then , wouldnt even try to crank for several minutes. I saw the "I am stranded" writing on the wall, so asked for help. I was told"Cl;ean the starter button" Did that, didn't do Hoot, but needed done, black crud aplenty in there. Bypassed the sidestand switch, using a sadle tap to short the wires. Bypassed the clutch interlock, another sadletap. On the sidestand I bypassed the diodes that are in there.That didnt solve the problem. It did get better when I replaced the battery, but I STILL get on it afetr riding(No more shutdown While I am riding, Dont know what fixed that, either of the bypass jobs, did them at the same time) So, in order to not get stuck & unable to start, I wired a micro switch into the wire that feeds the decomp relay. Now, no matter what, I can crank it UPPP. If you cant figure the answer, holler at me & I will walk you thru this easy fix. It is such a low current installation, one of the tiny little switches on the face of a dvd player is handling the job & has started it many times. It will crank the engine over( wont start, of course) without there even being a key in it. The switch is hidden, totally, but can be reached easily. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by skatnbnc on 04/21/07 at 16:27:09 By-pass wiring is where I draw the line on my self-help ability. I appreciate the offer, but I'm going to keep eliminating other things as it goes. I had a hard enough time with the tiny pieces in the starter button. All that cheap a*ss plastic in there - anything could crack or vibrate apart and how would ya know? :P Never did get out to ride today - the washing machine is backing dirty soap water up into the toilet, sink and bathtub. Vent trouble for sure. Got any plumbers online? ;) Maybe I will go out on the bike - at least it's DRY! :D |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/21/07 at 21:24:10 skatnbnc wrote:
Just let us know if it starts on the first try tomorrow :) I do some plumbing, no toilets :P |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by verslagen1 on 04/21/07 at 22:17:05 You got a plug in your sewer line. Either call rotor-rooter or go down to the local rental and rent a rooter and root it your self (say that five times) if you call you'll have time to ride. ;D |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/22/07 at 06:00:46 As it turns out, this Lady Savage is a good ol' Tarheel from NC.... So here is a photo of her bike, battery, book and baster. http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/Katherine06_3.jpg |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by skatnbnc on 04/22/07 at 12:41:40 Okay, you guys had one thing right - it is probably not the battery. I went out at 9:30 AM this morning, rode around all day and just got back, and had no trouble starting it except for the one time I got right back on after a quick stop, and it was super hot. It could not seem to find a good idle speed, and putzed out even when I tried using the choke. I wiped the bugs off and will be going out again soon, but if the problem were the battery I think it would have recurred by now. Unfortunatley, it is going to be one of those difficult to diagnose things...oh well, back on the road! Roto-roter will get a call first thing tomorrow, and btw, that piece of paper in my battery repair photo (lower right corner) right next to the manual is the print out of all your great advice! ;D Thanks - you all ROCK! |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/22/07 at 13:30:25 skatnbnc wrote:
Ah, idle speed and not starting are not really related unless you use the choke at the wrong time :) |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by skatnbnc on 04/22/07 at 14:11:16 Greg_650 wrote:
It started all day. Just when i started it hot, it was really rough like it wasn't getting enough fuel. So i pulled out the choke to up the idle speed. Wrong thing to do? (dumb question?) Just remember 'newbie'! :P |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/22/07 at 22:29:31 skatnbnc wrote:
Not dumb, it's just a nob on the carb :D Remember the starting instructions for cold starting state to use the choke. Doesn't say anything about warm starts, does it? If the engine is hot you shouldn't even have to touch the throttle either. Just push the button...(and hold the clutch in, and have the side stand in the right place, or have it in neutral) :P |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by mad on 04/23/07 at 09:25:55 This sounds like my problem. I am having trouble with a 1987 LS 650 (new battery). Last night I was three minutes into a ride and the motor cut out. Then I hit the start button and nothing happened. After a few tries she started and I hoped it was nothing. Today she started in near freezing weather and made it for over an hour on the Autobahn without a problem. I stopped in a rest area for a few minutes and the starter would not start. It started after a few tries and I finished the ride. I got to work and just too see what was going on, I tried to restart her and noting happened. I can hear a click under the tank (I assume it is the Decompression Solenoid) and the neutral light goes out. That’s the part that throws me. I don’t think it’s the battery because the headlight is still on and the high beam indicator works. My thinking is she thinks she is in gear while in neutral. My starter solenoid went out last year, and it was sporadic like this until it completely went out. The neutral light is odd. I am not positive, but I thought the neutral indicator was lit when the problem started. The area around the starter has a film of motor oil from a leak in or around my head gasket. And the side stand was down and up, the bike was in neutral, the kill switch was in the on position and everything was like normal, minus starting. Anybody have any idea? I am sure it is not the battery and I am broke down in a small village without any bike mechanics or my too by near by. Tomorrow a co-worker will bring me a cable to jump from the battery to the starter. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/23/07 at 09:32:40 You said the neutral light went out. Will the bike start with the side stand in the up position? |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by mad on 04/23/07 at 09:55:46 Greg_650 wrote:
No. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/23/07 at 10:47:10 mad wrote:
That shoots my idea. Good luck. |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by verslagen1 on 04/23/07 at 11:45:34 With the neutral light droping out, I would think it would be related. Maybe a bad neutral switch. The lighting circuits are independant of the run/kill switch. How does the interlock interelate to the neutral light? ;D |
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Title: Re: NOT a battery question? Post by Greg_650 on 04/23/07 at 12:02:00 verslagen1 wrote:
You know that answer :P The neutral switch takes the diode to ground. |
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