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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Best way to remove messed up screws ? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1176053486 Message started by strangeling67 on 04/08/07 at 10:31:26 |
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Title: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by strangeling67 on 04/08/07 at 10:31:26 Man, the screws on the carb are so soft that it seems that I can't even put any pressure on the screwdriver to get them undone without them messing up. So before I go any further does anyone have any good ideas about how to get these screws off ? Oh and what type of screws should I replace them with ? Also does any one have a pic of where the brass plug is located that I need to drill out to adjust the mixture. Just want to make sure I got the right one. Surprise, surprise I'm trying to get rid of the backfiring !!! Thanks, Glenn ;D |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by jd06s40 on 04/08/07 at 10:55:06 dont have a picture but i did did mine a couple weeks ago.it is on the (rear brake)right side of carb. about the size of a pencil. be careful not to drill deep. i drilled the hole a little bigger and used a sheetmetal screw and pulled it out. |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by verslagen1 on 04/08/07 at 10:59:46 Someday we need to figure out how to search for threads we know exist but are just too hard to find. We seem to talk about this every 6 months or so... These screws are hard to get out due to corrosion imho. Basically, squirt some penetraiting oil in there, use a pair of vice grips on the head of the screws and twist the mf's out. replace these screws with stainless steel allen head type screws. there are ss screws kits available on ebay. local hardware stores sometimes have too. put them in with a little oil or anti seize grease. Happy wrenching ;D |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by strangeling67 on 04/08/07 at 12:00:12 Hey thanks guys for all the information, I should be good to go now. Thanks again - this site rocks ! 8) |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Reelthing on 04/08/07 at 12:22:12 albb6 wrote:
there you go |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Ed_L. on 04/08/07 at 12:34:34 Try filing the sides of the screw heads flat and then get on them with a small pair of vice grips. I was able to get the screws out of my carb that way with it still on the bike but there was a lot said about the bike, sledge hammers and hack saws while doing it. ;D |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Greg_650 on 04/08/07 at 13:29:05 Yeah they are a pill. The old steel in aluminum thing where they just get too tight...guess it's better than falling out :P I just did it the other day at a Stinger's house. Out of the 8 screws (top and bottom), I had one that required a little bit of brute force... If you don't have a hand impact driver, then grab an old phillips screwdriver and smack the head good and solid with a hammer a couple times. That will usually loosen it up enough. For the one stubborn screw that we had, I used a small cold chisel and gave it a nudge in the "lefty" direction. That left a little groove but the screw still works normally with a screwdriver. Then when you get a chance, buy some metric allen head bolts at a hardware store. 5 MM, I think. Get stainless if you can. They are also easier to work with when the carb is installed, too. If you look close here you can see the allen heads, top and bottom. http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/CarbRtSide.jpg |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by TVR on 04/08/07 at 16:14:15 And when all else fails....take a dremel after it. :-/ http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u193/TVR_LS650/th_Crabscrew.jpg |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Reelthing on 04/08/07 at 17:47:26 http://reelthing.savageriders.com/pics/savage/Crabscrew.jpg so groves at the top are from a dremel? - did you get the thing out? |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by TVR on 04/08/07 at 18:54:13 Yep. Thats the "after" picture (as it currently is). Took all of the pot metal off down about a 1/4". I never thought it would hold, but it did...Seems to run just fine. Have an Amal handy if it starts giving me trouble, but its been about 500 miles like that. Broke an extractor off in the original screw and had to dremel down to get at it. |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by thumperclone on 04/08/07 at 21:11:03 my 06 wasnt 6 months old when i changed out the carb screws during a jet mod..one of four on the bowl buggered and had to use vise grips.. |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Greg_650 on 04/08/07 at 21:47:46 thumperclone wrote:
Those screws aren't installed in a sweat shop by some little ol' lady with a wimpy little screwdriver...She's got real power tools!!! At least you figured it out without grabbing a Dremel and grinding half your carb away first :P |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Greg_650 on 04/08/07 at 21:50:09 TVR wrote:
Man, that reminds me of the bad root canal that I had. I ended up getting the whole tooth pulled. |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by aussie_biker on 04/09/07 at 01:17:02 Yep Penetrating oil,cold chisels,impact drivers. All good. Don't forget Helicoils when it all goes to sh:t. Gotta love Helicoils. Expensive at the start but an essential item for all home mechanics. |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by flyer on 04/09/07 at 04:21:00 Putting some valve grinding compound on the tip of your screwdriver usually helps. Larry |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Greg_650 on 04/09/07 at 04:55:39 aussie_biker wrote:
Definitely useful if you grind away too much air jet :o |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by vroom1776 on 04/09/07 at 11:17:47 How to use a rigid screw extractor (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1159393743) |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Greg_650 on 04/09/07 at 11:25:13 vroom1776 wrote:
Yep...but the best thing is to not get that deep into it. Right? Your technique is for when it has all gone to crap...:P |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by vroom1776 on 04/09/07 at 11:31:27 yeah. If you've totally messed up the head, be it allen, 6 point bolt, or screw... this method usually works. Don't drill too deep... but sometimes that ends up being the option... |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Greg_650 on 04/09/07 at 11:45:20 vroom1776 wrote:
Yep, but sometimes, even a little patience pays off. Sometimes if a bolt head breaks off, the torque is relieved on the threads, and they actually get loose. In the photo below, is a pic of MY broken headcover bolt. Yep, it sure did tick me off to have to remove the headcover before the silicone had even dried... http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/HeadBoltBroke02web.jpg But patience and a small punch was what I used to get it out....the photo is a little dark, but the punch is there. Might not work everytime, but here is another option too. http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/HeadBoltBroke03web.jpg Like I said...when it has ALL gone to crap ;D |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by strangeling67 on 04/09/07 at 17:12:57 Well I finally got all the screws removed, but seriously why the freak do they use these substandard screws on these bikes - I mean there can't be that much difference in the cost of using stainless steel ones ! I guess that I just needed to vent as I have had a day of frustration with these screws !!! But I sure do love my bike !! |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Dynobob on 04/09/07 at 18:21:01 strangeling67 wrote:
You're right. The screws are too soft. I used vice grips on half of mine and the bike was fairly new when I rejetted it. With stainless allen heads, there should be no worries in the future. |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by TVR on 04/10/07 at 04:28:05 Greg_650 wrote:
Thats why I dropped out of dental school! :o |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Greg_650 on 04/10/07 at 05:10:07 TVR wrote:
It was the humane thing to do ::) |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Savage_Rob on 04/10/07 at 05:45:05 strangeling67 wrote:
I think the idea is to use fasteners that are softer than the base into which they are being threaded. The logic there would be to avoid damaging threads in the carb, block, etc. I just wish they weren't quite as wimpy as they are. I really hated snapping off the bolt in the cylinder head. I used Greg's method and carefully tapped it to back it out until I could grab it with needle-nose vise-grips. The boogered pilot adjustment screw is still in the carb. I upsized the pilot jet (which required an EZ-Out to remove) and got lucky that it was a perfect adjustment. Some folks advocate sticking the carb in the freezer for a while to cause the metal to contract and allow the screw to loosen slightly. |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Greg_650 on 04/10/07 at 06:52:44 Carb in the frig! Good idea....shouldn't be a problem since Julie is used to engine parts in the oven ;D |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by justin_o_guy on 04/10/07 at 07:18:34 When I tried to get the pilot out, one ear snapped off. I sure dont want to create a need for any EASE out, on account I have never, ever seen anyrhing EASE out that I wanted to get out. You folks spose a period in the freezer would make it let go? I LIKE that idea. |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Max_Morley on 04/10/07 at 08:21:47 From a technical newsletter I get online. On engines with aluminum blocks and head ( the top and bottom of the carb would be =) to prevent broken bolts, use the correct size punch and rap the head of each fastener a couple times before trying to loosen them. Always use a proper size phillips driver that is in primo shape to do this on the carb screws. this is not the time to save $ on screwdriver quality. If you like to use the ACR (trademark for anti cam out design) bits I get mine from the Snap-on dealer for my hex driver handle. Also they have regular screwdrivers with this feature. Max |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Greg_650 on 04/10/07 at 08:36:52 Max_Morley wrote:
Max, you and I gotta work on something sometime. Would be a hoot. Wish I'd been there for the burn-out too. There you go using all the fancy stuff again, but if you'll notice my "poor man's" technique on the other page...I suggest grabbing an old Phillips screwdriver and rapping the heads of the fasteners. Same effect with a smaller toolbox :P |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Max_Morley on 04/10/07 at 08:56:42 Just reinforcing it for the new folks. Using the phillips for the punch on carb screws is the only way, otherwise the cross head part will be un-usable and plans C-E have to be tried. The ACR really works, I don't buy anything else now. Come in both loosen, tighten or both ways options. I get both. However once it slips it is option time as it really chews up the screwhead. I also use a hand held impact driver 3/8 drive for the case screws with a APEX brand 1 - 3/4" long bit. Save lots of grief on those. Max |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Greg_650 on 04/10/07 at 09:10:25 Max_Morley wrote:
I had a hand impactor once! Think that I sold it at a "Poor Man's Yardsale" :P Yeah, I had to use a small cold chisel on one of Stinger's the other day. Didin't mess up the slots. Just left a little blemish on the edge of the head.... I had taken some stainless allen bolts over there but they were too long, and we had no way to shorten them either...no grinder, side grinder, hack saw, band saw, cutting torch, milling machine, EDM or lathe. Oh well. Back in they went :o |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by vroom1776 on 04/10/07 at 10:20:47 Greg_650 wrote:
um, if the head of the bolt, screw, whatever, is gone, then tapping it out with a punch or small needle nose pliers may be the easiest way to do it... like you said, as long as the torque is (at least) relieved. otherwise, it may be screw extractor or helicoil (yuck) time. |
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Title: Re: Best way to remove messed up screws ? Post by Greg_650 on 04/10/07 at 11:02:07 Of course, it has to be one of those cases where the bolt threads evenly all the way into a hole. The one in the picture was that way. It broke with a torque wrench. If it is a case where the bolt gets tight (and you should have backed it out) but you keep going until it just jams and then breaks, then out comes the "heavy equipment"...extractors and helicoil kits. Always go with the friendliest option first ;D |
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