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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> BAD IDEA -- $2.50 Magnetic Oil "cleaner"
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Message started by Oldfeller2 on 03/31/07 at 14:29:50

Title: BAD IDEA -- $2.50 Magnetic Oil "cleaner"
Post by Oldfeller2 on 03/31/07 at 14:29:50

=======================

ATTENTION:

THIS WAS A BAD IDEA THAT DIDN'T WORK OUT -- vinyl impregnated magnet material is very slowly attacked by hot oil. PLEASE READ THE WHOLE THING, DON'T JUST JUMP OUT AND GO DO IT.

OLDFELLER

=======================

I have a magnetic oil plug and I was just plum amazed at the amount of tiny iron/steel microfine particles that the little protruding magnetic spud picked up over the course of just one oil change. I never knew my motor had that much steel-on-steel wear going on all the time.

I had also noted a picture/post on this site where someone had stuck a piece of flat magnet to their Emco oil filter to do the same sort of thing instead of paying $10 for a magnetic oil plug.

This got me to thinking ..... strip magnet material, where have I seen that stuff just a month or so ago?

Answer -- Wal-Mart, in the crafts/sewing section. Name brand is Pro-Mag and it comes in a small package of adhesive backed 1/2" wide magnetic strip all neatly coiled up in a cello-pack.

My proposed solution is to take off the oil filter cover casting and apply about 8 inches of this stuff to the inside of the lip of the oil cover. The 1/2" width is just about perfect, it stays sub-flush to the lip at all time and is in air clearance to the installed Emco filter at all times. Plenty of room for the oil to move past the magnetic surface -- it does not impede the oil flow at all.

Installation tricks are as follows:

Clean the casting really oil free -- adhesives don't stick to oily surfaces.

That inner lip surface has casting draft to it, so it is really a "tapered conical" mounting surface. To beat this issue, cut the strip a little LONG and intentionally bevel cut the ends so the strip goes together to match the tapered surface you are installing it to.

(fair warning, you will likely screw this up a time or two but you got plenty of magnetic strip to play with even in the small $2.00 pack of 1/2" strip material)

When you get the taper end cuts and the length right, peel the tape and and install it. IMPORTANT, you should have a little bit of plus length such that you have a 1/16" bulge in the strip material when you put the two ends together.

That excess length provides a positive clamping pressure to the strip material when you iron it down with your fingers (forcing the adhesive to bite down on the casting and engaging the strip under hoop tension such that it seats totally flush along its entire surface).

When you have it right the ends should mash out a little bit because of the hoop tension the strip is under and it should fit flush to the tapered surface. It should be glued firmly to the casting material and it should generally look like it isn't going anywhere and that it was done very much on purpose.

Put the oil filter and cover together normally and run your bike normally. When you change your oil filter you will need to wipe the particulate sludge off the lip magnet with a rag (and please try to remember to test the magnetic strip with a screwdriver to see if it retains its magnitism to suit you before putting it back together).

If not, you still got over a foot of the virgin magnetic strip material to set it all up again with fresh material.

Good riding to you all,

Oldfeller

====================

ATTENTION:

THIS WAS A BAD IDEA THAT DIDN'T WORK OUT -- vinyl impregnated magnet material is very slowly attacked by hot oil. PLEASE READ THE WHOLE THING, DON'T JUST JUMP OUT AND GO DO IT.

OLDFELLER

=======================

Title: Re: $2.50 Magnetic Oil "cleaner"
Post by justin_o_guy on 03/31/07 at 16:54:37

You don't spose the goo will soften up from the oil temp? If it does & it migrates, I wonder where it will stop? I also wonder what temp that magnet can handle & if it will stop being a magnet after it gets hot a few times.

For the record, I have a bad history with magnets. I taped a couple of $13.00 apiece magnets to a differential that had been infiltrated with water. I wanted to catch any crap before it ate the whole differential. They were ceramic. I had no idea. When I went to remove them, they were just dust. CRAPPOLA! $26.00,, gooone, & not one spec of metal caught.

Title: Re: $2.50 Magnetic Oil "cleaner"
Post by barry68v10 on 03/31/07 at 17:50:01

It would be best to mount the magnet on the OUTSIDE of the oil filter housing...

Title: Re: $2.50 Magnetic Oil "cleaner"
Post by Digger on 03/31/07 at 18:35:50

I pop one of these beauties on the end of the drain plug. You could also attach it to the steel cap on the oil filter:

http://www.sciplus.com/singleItem.cfm?terms=11028&cartLogFrom=Search%20%2D%20Category%20Filter

Title: Re: $2.50 Magnetic Oil "cleaner"
Post by mpescatori on 04/01/07 at 03:55:37

How about the come doughnut magnets they sell?
I quote
"We're selling a pair of very nice chrome-plated, rare-earth donut magnets, measuring 3/4" dia x 1/8" thick with 5/16" bores. Approx 5-lb pull, which is not only strong for most pastries, it's way, way beyond the pull of most magnets! Polarized on the faces, 2900 gauss"

Should fit on the oil filter housing, wadaya think?

Title: BAD IDEA -- $2.50 Magnetic Oil "cleaner"
Post by Oldfeller2 on 04/01/07 at 06:03:33

Justin,

Manufacturer warrants "full perfomance" to 150 degrees F so I do think the magnetic properties may indeed decline over time due to the temperature the oil keeps inside our scooters. How much it will decline, we will see.

As for it going anywhere, it is a strip that is 8 inches long that is on the outside of the oil flow through the oil filter. The inlet won't be blocked by it in any possible orientation (positive pressure and the edge profile can't block the relatively large hole and it would be very hard put to present a flat surface to the oil hole anyway).

And that was the point about putting it in place on the inside of the lip surface with some positive hoop tension, so that it won't go anywhere even if the glue stopped working.

Also remember the sheet metal rim of the Emgo filter is right there, 1/8 of an inch away. If it did come loose and move out from the lip surface it would magnetically attach itself to the filter can rim as that is the nearest metal surface.

As far as the magnetic material itself coming apart, if that was going to happen it would have happened to the folks who have been putting the flat magnet material on the face of their Emgo filters (and to all the car people who have flat magnets attached to the inside of the oil pans on their crankcases and their transmission pans -- GM std practice for years now).

But then again, that's why folks try stuff like this out -- to find out what happens -- does the idea really work?

I'll pop my filter open at the next oil change and report so folks can know what really happens due to heat, oil/glue reaction, vibration and time.

If it turns out to be a bad idea, I'll tell you in a month or so.

Oldfeller

Title: BAD IDEA -- $2.50 Magnetic Oil "cleaner"
Post by Oldfeller2 on 04/03/07 at 14:54:13

Justin was right, hot oil and flexible magnetic strip materials do not get along together very well.

Oil became tinted slightly brownish after a week of short trips which prompted an oil drain and a filter tear down.

Oil was clear and smelled new, but it was tinted like it had a dye in it (this is what I had noted in the oil window).

Magnetic oil plug spud was clean, no debris of any sort on the little magnet.

Filter looked new, no material of any sort on paper fabric or on any steel surface (inside or out).

Magnetic strip material was still firmly attached to the inside of the lip surface. Adhesion of the glue between the casting and the magnetic strip was still there, although the glue was softened somewhat.

Magnetic strip was almost completely demagnitized after only a week of short trips around town -- THIS KILLS THE IDEA COMPLETELY.

Lastly, the strip material seemed softer and more flexible to me when I was peeling it off the casting. When I compared it to the unused strip material it was softer by about 20% and had maybe gotten a bit thicker physically (very subjective, I know). The oil and heat had gotten into the vinyl substrate and had apparently also leached some coloration back out of the vinyl which is what had tinted the oil.

If this oil/heat invasion had continued, Justin's prediction of "goo" would have likely taken place -- THIS KILLS THE IDEA COMPLETELY.

============================

Any effective magnetic material will have to be a solid powdered metal type that is heat sintered and sealed with with a nickle skin. There are only a very few types of magnet of this sort that don't get readily demagnetized by heat. These would be some of the relatively expensive super-magnet materials and and an appropriate size to fit the filter envelope might be difficult or expensive to come by.

I will be looking, though. I still like the basic idea -- this was just a bad approach to get there.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: BAD IDEA -- $2.50 Magnetic Oil "cleaner&q
Post by babbalou on 04/03/07 at 17:40:13

I got 12 magnets at Lowe's saturday for $2.00. Nickel sized & about 1/4" thick. I'll use them to hold maps to my gas tank. I've got a magnetic drain plug but I may stick one magnet on the filter too. Lowe's also had larger & smaller magnets.

Title: Re: BAD IDEA -- $2.50 Magnetic Oil "cleaner&q
Post by tbalam on 04/03/07 at 19:47:13

I just JBwelded a magnet to the outside of the drain plug and turned the whole drain plug into a magnet, this should keep the heat from demagnetizing anything and still captures the metal. It's not super strong, but you could always use rare earth magnets and really kick up the pull.

I also jammed a 1/2" magnet in the filler plug to catch the flakes out of the oil spray from up top.

Title: Re: BAD IDEA -- $2.50 Magnetic Oil "cleaner&q
Post by Oldfeller2 on 04/04/07 at 03:45:19

I'll do Justin's job for a bit ..... what happens if it gets loose?

You don't think it will (and I didn't think the flex magnet material would taint the oil either), but you GOT to entertain the thought anyway and take steps against it.

We gotta be careful because of one of our magnets gets loose and gets re-powdered by the engine motion the little magnetic particles will go everywhere and stick to everything thats steel or iron.

Sort of a permanent "wear additive" so to speak.

What happens if it gets loose?

Oldfeller

Title: Re: BAD IDEA -- $2.50 Magnetic Oil "cleaner&q
Post by grim on 04/04/07 at 07:45:28

After splitting my engine, I found LOTS of treasures including metal slurry, broken cam chain tensioner spring, Plastic chunks from cam chain guide, and more metal sprinkles in the oil pump. Talk about headache opening the engine. While opening up, washers and gears were falling out of place before I could see where they were coming from.....not funny. I just kept hearing the clanking of another fallen piece of metal...... :-[

Bottom line....get some kind of magnet.

Title: Re: BAD IDEA -- $2.50 Magnetic Oil "cleaner&a
Post by Greg_650 on 04/04/07 at 08:02:25

[quote author=grim link=board=RubberSideDown;num=1175376590;start=0#10 date=04/04/07 at 07:45:28]...While opening up, washers and gears were falling out of place before I could see where they were coming from.....not funny. I just kept hearing the clanking of another fallen piece of metal...... :-[/quote]

Must have been removing the left side cover ;D

No manual?

Title: Re: BAD IDEA -- $2.50 Magnetic Oil "cleaner&q
Post by grim on 04/04/07 at 09:37:53

got the manual....but reading it is also giving me a headache....It is those three forks that give me the creeps. They are in, but is there more than one way they all fit? or can I say, " If they are in, it must be right."