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Message started by tbalam on 03/23/07 at 17:17:47

Title: starter wire getting hot.
Post by tbalam on 03/23/07 at 17:17:47

Waiting for the battery to charge, but when I tried to turn it over the positive wire to the solenoid began to over heat. everything works normal, except the wire gets really hot when I try to start it, but not other wise. Any thoughts?

Almost acts like it's shorting through the starter, but I didn't do anything to the starter.

Title: Re: starter wire getting hot.
Post by tbalam on 03/23/07 at 20:21:05

As I think about it the only thing i changed was i removed the sidestand switch and moved the ground wire. I also rerouted some stuff but that shouldn't cause my problem.

Title: Re: starter wire getting hot.
Post by grim on 03/23/07 at 20:59:58

I think it is hopeless. You should sell the bike to me and get another one. ;D

Title: Re: starter wire getting hot. after i have b
Post by tbalam on 03/23/07 at 21:10:52

I'll let you know tomorrow when i have been working on it all day and still haven't gotten anywhere :-[

Title: Re: starter wire getting hot.
Post by kf6kmx on 03/23/07 at 21:24:37

tbalam wrote:

As I think about it the only thing i changed was i removed the sidestand switch and moved the ground wire. I also rerouted some stuff but that shouldn't cause my problem.

Double check the ground.
Also, just make sure nothing got pinched off in a bolt or anything.
A friend bought a used KTM with the street kit on it (lights, signals, etc) and it had a weird fuse popping problem... I tracked the wiring on it and found that the previous owner who did the front turn signals had just slightly tagged a wire in the bracket and if you turned the bars a ceratin point it shorted out. but only if turned the right way.

Title: Re: starter wire getting hot.
Post by tbalam on 03/23/07 at 21:49:51

I just put the side stand switch back in, and moved the ground back to it's original position. Everything functions the way it should. Except the positive cable melts the insulation when I try and start it. I am going to take off the left side cover and recheck the magneto and pickup.

I will recheck all the wires that i rerouted. and I am going to upgrade the ground and positive cables. I am just hoping It's not in the harness.

Would a weak battery and holding the starter on without it cranking cause it to draw to large of a load?

Oh and i had the battery tested and they said it was good, I'll be getting a new one tomorrow if no progress in the am.

Title: Re: starter wire getting hot.
Post by tbalam on 03/23/07 at 21:50:18

I just read what i wrote man i sound like a moron. ::)

Title: Re: starter wire getting hot.
Post by Greg_650 on 03/24/07 at 07:04:13

tbalam wrote:

Not sure, because I don't know everything you've done, but just remember that you have 2 separate circuits here.

The starter has a control circuit and a power circuit. They are separated from each other by the use of the relay. Just the nature of the device.

So, go ahead and remove that sidestand switch if you want. That just involves turning the relay on, but has nothing to do with the starter power.

Also, don't bother (and save yourself a gasket) with the alternator. Why would that have anything to do with it? One part is AC and the other is ignition. They just charge the battery, and aren't really doing anything during the starting cycle.

Why buy a battery when it starts the engine, and has a lot of power? If it was tested good? I never heard of anyone getting a new battery because the old one worked too good.

After all, if you went outside and turned on your garden hose only to have water squirting everywhere, would you call a plumber and get all new piping in your house?

Go back to where the problem is...at the starter cable and starter.

Title: Re: starter wire getting hot.
Post by Jimsey67 on 03/24/07 at 07:33:28

I'm not sure if you have figured it out yet but....

It is well known that startup current on any electrical motor is considerably higher than when the motor is running. Sometimes as much as 3 times the current draw. Under normal conditions, the brevity of the current spike won't hurt anything. However, pushing the start button - there by providing power to the starter - and having the motor NOT turn will draw lots of current. Possibly enough to melt wiring.

An example. Have you ever noticed the lights dim briefly when the refrigerator starts up? Now imagine what that would be like if the motor in the fridge was stuck and couldn't or wouldn't turn.

Provided the battery is good and there is nothing wrong with the ground and power line, I would check that starter for binding, bad brushes or corrosion.

Just my 2 cents here.

Jimsey

Title: Re: starter wire getting hot.
Post by Greg_650 on 03/24/07 at 07:54:16

Jimsey67 wrote:

Just my 2 cents here.

Jimsey

Might only be 2 cents worth, but those a shiny pennies!

Title: Re: starter wire getting hot.
Post by Max_Morley on 03/24/07 at 09:12:19

Yes, applying current to a not turning motor (starter) prevent it from creating counter EMF (electromotive force or voltage) that acts as a current limiter. If you measure with an OHM meter a starter motor is is essentially a very low resitance path to ground. As soon as it spins it starts the EMF and the current draw goes down. that's why the size of the booster battery doesn't make any difference if the starter is working correctly when jump starting. It is a current limiting device on its own and will only draw as many amps as rated at full RPM. However, have a mechanical problem in the engine and cause it to turn slow and you could have hot wires, melted wiring and a burned out starter. You had another request about the ground wire. It needs to be resitance free as the amps that leave the battery (using old + to - automotive as a reference not more modern electron theory) has to get back to the opposite plates. Any resistance - corrosion, loose connections small wires for that circuit and load - will decrease the starter RPM and also decrease the ability of the amps to flow. So start by cleaning and tightening all connections from the both battery terminals. If there is a question a vibration proof washer (sometimes called a star washer) under the terminal ring (not necessarily under the bolt head) will help. Do let us know what you find (or did if that fixes it and you are not sure what fixed it). Max

Title: Re: starter wire getting hot.
Post by Jimsey67 on 03/24/07 at 09:24:06

Greg_650 wrote:

Might only be 2 cents worth, but those a shiny pennies!

Thanks Greg!

Title: Re: starter wire getting hot.
Post by tbalam on 03/24/07 at 11:13:51

Thanks for the replies, I had checked all the wires traced the starter circuit from one side to the other. Everything was good. As much as it sounds like I haven't I have had experience with this, physics and engineering in college. I haven't had a day off in a couple weeks, and have been doing this late at night, so that might have something to do with it.
anyway, this one was perplexing. So I started from the beginning and took the magneto cover off and checked the gears, no binding. Tried to turn it over and no problems. Put the cover back on bolted it down and same problem. AH HA!

After all that I found one washer that I had put in the wrong spot that was binding the starter, starter gear, and starter clutch against the cover. Took about an hour to figure this all out, but I finally got it.

Put it all back together and she fired right up and purred, oh man she sounded good, and no more hot starter wire.

Title: Re: starter wire getting hot.
Post by georgekathe on 03/24/07 at 12:02:01

glad to hear you fixed up a perplexing problem - would have been beyond me!:)

Title: Re: starter wire getting hot.
Post by tbalam on 03/24/07 at 15:03:18

I also replaced the ground and positive battery cables with 4 gauge auto wires. ;D