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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Technical Documents/Reference >> Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1174239333 Message started by hutch on 03/18/07 at 10:35:33 |
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Title: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by hutch on 03/18/07 at 10:35:33 Following is the list for the parts needed. The sprockets are JT Sprockets items. All you need to order(available from several sources) is the front and rear sprockets for a Suzuki 1980 GS550 with CAST wheel. These sprockets are available in 13- 18 for the front sprocket. The 18 will not have enough clearance but the rest are fine. The rear are available in 38-52 and will all work. You will need to order an extra 13 tooth front sprocket. This will be needed to make a spacer. I cut a 40mm circle out of the 13 tooth, and it fits on the outside of the sprocket to take up the room between the sprocket and the toothed lock washer and the nut that tightens everything down. It is a simple switch. After putting bike in gear(5th) Just remove all the belt covers, and the cover for the front pulley(three 8mm bolts) Place a steel bar(wrapped with tape) through the spokes of rear wheel and on TOP of your swing arm on both sides. A32mm socket is needed to remove nut on the front pulley(lefty loosie). Be sure to flatten the lock washer that is bent over nut first. After that loosen chain adjusters, loosen axle and move rear wheel forward. Pull the rear axle out and the spacers, be sure to remove back brake cable adjuster and barrel. Now you can pull out the bottom shock bolt(pulley side) and swing shock out of the way to remove belt. Remove the pulley off the rear wheel(six 14mm nuts) and replace with sprocket of your tooth choice. Slide the sprocket of your choice on the transmission shaft, slide on the spacer made from the 13 tooth sprocket, the toothed washer and finally the nut. You may need to JUST grind the spacer a very little to allow room for the toothed washer to slide on the tranmission spline. I used a disk sander, and took ONLY enough metal off to let the toothed washer to hang on the splines. After that you just bolt everything back up and figure out the length of your chain. I used a 530 chain of 110 links, and took links out(2) to fit my sprocket combo(17/43) You will NOT be able to run a belt guard(brackets on swing arm will hit chain) in some cases when using an o-ring chain, because it is wider. With a normal chain there is no problem, even down to the 14 tooth on the front. If you do not run a belt/chain guard you will need to put an extra washer on the bottom shock bolt to take up the space of the belt guard. Just take a washer with a large enough hole to fit bolt and cut out one side making it look like a "u". This way you can run gaurd or not and will not have to remove rear wheel to take out the washer. The cost for the whole chain coversion with NEW sprockets from the DEALER was $95. This included a cheap chain, until I find the best ratios for me. Once I find the ratio I like best, I will go with a good o-ring chain that will add to the cost . $70 for sprockets and the price of a good chain is a good deal to be able to DIAL in what you want your Savage to do. I will be posting pics later. HAVE FUN!!! with all the ratios you have to play with. You can now cruise the interstate at lower RPM's or turn your Savage into a street rocket that will pull the front tire off the road all day. It's all up to YOU!!! and the sprockets you choose. Hutch Following are pics of conversion. This one shows spacer behind the washer and nut. http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/ChainConv01.jpg This shows how close chain runs to belt guard bracket. The smaller 14 tooth sprocket might mean removing bracket. http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/ChainConv02.jpg This shows the sprocket I cut the 40mm OD center out of to make the spacer for behind the washer and nut. http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/ChainConv03.jpg Here is a look down the chain. http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/ChainConv04.jpg This the complete view. Just put covers on, and enjoy!! http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/ChainConv05.jpg Here is a chart showing the difference in RPM at the same speed, comparing stock gearing on left and new gearing on the right. --stock--------------------------------------new ratio 17/43 ---- 50mph@3111---------------------50@2660rpm=450less----- 60mph@3733---------------------60@3193rpm=541less----- 70mph@4355---------------------70@3724rpm=631less----- 80mph@4977---------------------80@4255rpm=722less----- 90mph@5600---------------------90@4788rpm=812less----- 100mph@6222------------------100@5320rpm=900less----- 105mph@6500------------------105@5560rpm=940less----- Here is another chart for a different ratio. --stock------------------------------------new ratio17/45-------- 50mph@3111--------------------50@2799rpm=312less------ 60mph@3733--------------------60@3359rpm=374less------ 70mph@4355--------------------70@3919rpm=436less------ 80mph@4977--------------------80@4479rpm=518less------ 90mph@5600--------------------90@5040rpm=560less------ 100mph@6222-----------------100@5600rpm=622less------ 105mph@6500-----------------105@5850rpm=650less------ That is just two examples of what you can do by changing gear ratios and how it affects your rpm and mph. Keep in mind that a one tooth change on the REAR sprocket is a 2.5% change in gearing. For every one tooth change on the FRONT sprocket it is a 5-6% change in gearing. HAVE FUN!!! Hutch |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by tbalam on 03/18/07 at 11:12:01 Hey guys, These sprockets fit a number of models and years. Most of the sprockets for the GS, GSXR, GSX's work. Hear is the model numbers: JTsprockets Front: jtf513.? Rear jtr816.? The .? is for whatever tooth number you want. If you go here: http://www.jtsprockets.com/61.0.html?&L=0&sel_artnr=JTF513,13 And here: http://www.jtsprockets.com/61.0.html?&L=0&sel_artnr=JTR816,39 You can see at the links above all the models that share these sprocket designs and then buy a sprocket for anyone of these models, from whatever sprocket manufacturer you want. Like hutch i went with a 17/43 you can buy most of the parts on ebay. I paid 15 bucks for the rear and 60 bucks for an oring chain. shipping included http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/ChainConv06.jpg (http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/ChainConv06.jpg) |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Greg_650 on 03/19/07 at 09:10:22 And if I may add a bit to this.... If you want to shop different prices and manufacturers, the Motorcycle Superstore carries 3 brands of sprockets that fit the Suzuki GS550 model....and other Suzukis too. At this time the Motorcycle Superstore has 2 day shipping and free for orders over $75...that'll get both sprockets and chain, delivered for free. The brands are AFAM, Sunstar, and JT Sprockets. The JTs are the cheapest...and cheaper than my dealer too. Go here for the sprocket list. http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/PartsByDept.aspx?DID=759&Type=1 Go here for the chain list. http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/Department.aspx?Department=660&Division=6 Sprocket ratios to go with Hutch's charts are: 45/17 = 2.65 43/17 = 2.53 45/16 = 2.81 43/16 = 2.69 (stock pulleys are 68/23 = 2.956) I chose mine from the GS550L model with the 17/45 set and 120 link 530 Roller Chain (cheap like Hutch) to make a little different comparison. My shopping cart is now ready for next payday. Total cost $83.97 with free shipping :P |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by hutch on 03/22/07 at 18:28:29 I put over 100 miles on the 17/43(2.53 ratio) conversion and really got the feel today. In town it is a 3rd gear no jerk affair at 25mph. 4th gear for towns with 35-40 speed limits. Back roads are an easy smooth rpm at 55-60(speedo reads 48-51) going with the traffic. On the interstate at 70-75 (speedo reads 60-65) it is a joy now. It falls into a super smooth rpm where the exhaust note gets hard to hear without leaning that way to hear it., and I have the loud Jardine muffler. SMOOOTH. Passing a semi is no problem, even in the turbulance at the cab door of the truck. Down shift only needed if a heavy head wind. The best way I can describe the all around performance of the bike with this ratio is to compare it to another bike. This will not help the younger people on this site, but I know I am not the only middle aged person here. Aceleration is a STEADY, STRONG pull in all gears. with 5th as an overdrive. It feels just like a Triumph 750 twin of the 70's. Only a LOT less vibration. It is perfect. I thought I would be spending most of my time with the 14/43 (3.07ratio)combo on it for everyday driving, and going to the 17 on the front for when I wanted to hit the e-way for long trips. I believe it is going to be 17/43(2.53 ) MOST of the time now, and ONLY switched to the 14/43 (3.07)when I just want to smoke most everything else from 0-60. I can't believe how much nicer a bike it has become. I did get a chance to find out how far my speedo is off. I can't belive I did this, but I saw a State Police Officer at the ramp when I got to the e-way. I told him the story of the conversion and that my speedo was off. He agreed to follow me on to the e-way and let me know when I hit 70mph. The speedo is off by 10mph. When it said 60 mph it was 70.Below 55 it is off by about five mph. I did have it up to a speedo reading of a little over 80mph(95 actual, not with the cop around) and I was in the 3rd lane passing everybody. I came home and figured everything out, and either my speedo has been reading slow to begin with or something. The gear change is a 14.5% change, but the real speed, compared to the speedo reading, works out to a 17% change to be correct. Oh well, all I know is I LIKE IT. It is a much more VERSATILE bike, but that is my oppinion, as much as that is worth. In more hilly country or when carrying more weight(200lb+ rider or carrying passenger) I believe the 17/45 (2.65 ratio), or the 16/43(2.69)would be a better choice. That is why I went with the 43 back sprocket. You can cruise flat land with the 17/43, hilly with the 16/43, and smoke with the 14/43. There is no problem with clutch slippage using the 17/43 conversion, so far. RIDE SAFE Hutch |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by tbalam on 03/25/07 at 17:52:20 Since hutch mentioned clutch slippage, if you go to a gear ratio that is high like 2.5-2.75 it may be an issue. the springs on the savage are not that good so here are the part numbers for a high friction plates and springs from bike bandit. Bike bandit sells the vesrah plates and springs for the savage. VC330- Plates - 79.95 SK330- springs - 10.95 These should take care of any clutch slippage that is caused by the additional load generated by these gear ratios. Oh, and the conversion was totally worth it. at 17/43 in fourth gear i am where i used to be in fifth gear. SO now I have an extra gear to play with 80 mph is now an easy lope with still alot more throttle to go. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by hutch on 03/26/07 at 16:54:05 Just got back from a mileage check. I used the state map distances and the signs on Interstate 75. 264 miles round trip at an average of 75-80mph, did use third lane on occasion(80-85mph). Total gas consumption, 4.5 gallons.I used to get 50-52 mpg on the back roads(55-60mph) with a 152.5 main and 55 pilot. I am now running a bigger 155 main and flying down the interstate at 75-80mph and getting 58.5mpg.No screaming rpms, just a smooth level groove that it falls into. I must also mention that it was calm when I left this morning, but on the way back I was bucking 20-25mph wind gusts. Even with the wind gust there was no need to downshift to pass any vehicle, just roll on the throttle.On two lane black top at 50-55mph it is just an easy lope, and all that is needed is a twist of the throttle to get a STRONG, STEADY acceleration, no down shift needed. This is the best $95 I ever spent. WHOLE NEW BIKE. The 14 tooth sprocket makes it a little quicker off the line than stock, but I was all the way to end of adjustment and chain was not as tight as it should be. If you ran the 16 tooth(2.69ratio,9%change) and 14 tooth you will be able to use the same chain. I have the feeling that I will DEFINATELY be running the 17/43(2.53ratio,14.5%change) 99.9% of the time. This is just what I was looking for, PERFECT for me. The change in gearing percentage works out to the same change in fuel consumption I changed my gearing by 14.5%, and increased my MPG by 14.5% The 16/43(2.69ratio) would be a 9% change in gear ratio from stock and a 9% increase in mpg . At least it should be, going by my change in gearing and change in mpg. Even if you were to add one of LANCERS cams from Web, you would have more power and possibly get 50mpg. Later Hutch |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Greg_650 on 05/02/07 at 10:17:43 45/17 combo with chain from the Motorcycle Superstore with free shipping for orders over $75.00. Reference sprockets for the Suzuki GS550. http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/ChainConversion_3037.jpg |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by vroom1776 on 06/15/07 at 09:47:26 Based on Hutch's numbers for 5th gear, stock tire, I made these theoretical plots for various gear ratios. The format is Speed (mph) vs rpm. The vertical black line represents a 6500 rpm redline. The horizontal black line represents 80 mph. http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/Vroom-RPM-5th.jpg notice that the 13-37 and the 17-50 are pretty much the same as the stock 23-68. with the 17-38, you could do about 135 mph, but it would take you forever to get there. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by ThumpinSquid on 09/21/07 at 09:16:51 One last note on rear sprokets. If you're ordering online, then all the info you need is in this thread. If you're like me and support local business ( I do it primarily because I live on top of a mountain and "priority shipping" still takes two weeks) or you have a MC salvage shop you like to go to, The GS rear sprockets WE need have a 100mm bolt pattern. I know it says above we need the ones for CAST wheels, but at the shop I went to they have them divided into "spoke" and then all others. I got one for "all others" thinking "spoke" meant wire spoke wheels. We'll, the one I got has a 73mm bolt pattern so I'm headed back today to get the right one, ruler in hand. Last reminder, LOOSEN THE DRIVE PULLEY NUT BEFORE YOU TAKE THE REAR WHEEL OUT! Or it won't come off at all. I got a little gung-ho and forgot and wasted about an hour. Plus I skinned my knuckles and it really really hurt. There, now you have no excuses. <$100 and it makes room for bigger tires, let's YOU pick your performance style, and is easily fixed if you have a problem on the side of the road! Throw a chain, toss in another master link, throw a belt, call a tow truck! :) EDIT>>> Instead of buying a 13-tooth front to make a spacer (I don't work in a machine shop anymore and don't have any way to cut it at home) I bought 2 7/8" washers and after 5 minutes with a dremel they fit over the spines just fine. Also, this way I was able to sandwich my drive gear between them to help compensate for the offset of my rear sprocket as a result of the 165R15 tire mod. The nut has a recess that allows it to fit over the splines to press on the spined lock washer too, so it's good to go. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by bsdnfraje on 05/02/08 at 14:47:19 Thumpinsquid mentioned using 2 7/8" washers as spacers. But he had to dremel them a little to fit. I picked up 2 1" washers at the local ACE, no dremeling required. They slip right over the shaft perfectly. But check the outer diameter. There were two choices at my ACE. One was perfect, the other was slightly larger overall and I think might have interfered with the chain on my 16 tooth sprocket. And man I wish I had done this conversion on Day One. I went to 16/43 and it is awesome. I would have went 17/43 like some others, but I like going back home in the mountains sometimes. It doesn't feel, though, like a 17 would keep me from climbing. I may try it out when time to replace the chain. I was a little bitter at first because it seemed like nothing had really changed, and then I remembered that the speedo is now off, which explains why the wind resistance was so much stronger at "70mph". Thanks to Hutch, Thumpinsquid, Savage_Greg and all the guys who contributed to this post. Its like having a brand new bike. [edited to add} Also I had to take my rear belt pulley to my local auto shop to break free the six nuts holding it to the hub. No charge, because we change oil on two vehicles there 3-4 times per year, but it made the conversion simpler. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Savage_Greg on 06/12/08 at 07:31:42 BTW - I didn't think about it at the time, but the "standard" chain pictured above (and other comparable ones) is rated for street bikes "up to 350 cc" maximum. Since I'm changing sprockets again, I decided to get a higher rated chain this time. I bought an EK 530 SROZ o-ring chain instead. It is rated for bikes up to 50 HP. It still cost more at $80, but that would be a small issue if I had a chain problem a long distance from home. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by MrThud on 01/30/09 at 05:29:15 This is an excellent and informative thread, thanks guys. One item I see missing from the top pic is a locking washer. You could do this yourself by fitting a large (but thin) washer between the spacer and the nut and then flattening one side down at 90% so that it retains the nut from loosening. (There are other ways of ensuring that the sprocket nut doesnt loosen, but the washer idea is simplest). Note the internal dia of the washer would have to be 'keyed' to fit the shaft splines. Hope you can picture what im describing. If not ask your buddy with a std sprocket set up to let you have a look at how the sprocket nut is retained.. on Jap bikes it typically is as I described. best, G. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by BigSingle on 02/08/09 at 09:05:19 What chain is everyone going with? Im going to asume 525 or 530 bc that is what most kits and stock comes with. I know with my trackbike and most streetbikes you swap to a 520 conversion. It a smaller chain wich is lighter (less restriction/"more power")(could also help w clearence) and it makes a huge difference. Now it is a bit more expencive to buy but there is many diffrent options on chain styles. When swaping to a 520 the maint. and replacemt interval gets shorter bc it will strech quicker, but its not like our bikes put out a ton of power... |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Hutch on 02/15/09 at 06:34:23 77486E524F5E3A0 wrote:
The washer behind the nut is the original washer from Suzuki with the little tab you were speaking of and slined. If you look real close by the number 17 on the sprocket, you will see the tab bent over. This is on the first picture you mentioned. Hutch |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by 4drcaddy on 01/16/11 at 20:29:17 i actually made a post on rubber side down but since it was recently being discussed here, did anyone figure out a good number of teeth front and rear for an 87 4spd? looking for close to stock with a little more highway friendly? |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by bdub on 03/08/11 at 17:23:20 17/43 is really the ideal setup for this application. Why? You may ask...because prime numbers of teeth on the primary and secondary sprockets ensure maximum wear on the chain and sprockets regardless of the number of links on the chain. ;) What!?! You mean math acutally applies here?!? Yes! It does. Thanks Hutch! |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by creekhound on 03/30/11 at 19:47:55 This sounds like somthing i would like to do but is there anything that can be done to make speedo and milage right? |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Oldfeller on 03/31/11 at 05:10:40 There is a mod to change the face of the speedo (lots of tinkering to take it apart, etc) or you can do like most of us and jest handle bar mount a small discrete bicycle speedo that runs off a magnet on the front wheel. Digital bike speedo that you don't have to look down for is better in my eyes -- large numbers are easy to read and its right there when you need to look at it. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by k9500winmag on 02/28/12 at 19:15:14 Man im running a 13/49 on mine. It pulls off the line like a drag bike but is not fuel friendly on the interstate. Dry pavement I can spin the tire through 1st and 2 second before she hooks up. But im also running a #155 jet in the carb..... Im maybe getting 50 mpg.... Probably less. And ive only got a 2 gallon tank hahaha. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by teabowl13 on 04/24/12 at 12:51:41 I just got parts to do my chain conversion about 2 months ago, and the old part numbers got me where I needed to go... I just looked everything on Ebay, don't have the exact info at hand, but it's pretty straightforward. Hardest part was deciding on my ratios... |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Paraquat on 04/26/12 at 15:58:29 I'm curious as to the variations with different sized sprockets. Sure, there's a fancy graph with some numbers but I want real world data. Like being able to spin the tire in 2nd (as posted above) would probably be a hair too aggressive for me. Staying highway friendly is a concern for me as well. I'd be interested to hear first hand how the 17/45 performs. --Steve |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Finney138 on 04/27/12 at 07:04:27 i picked up a 13 and a 17 with a 45 in the rear. i found the 17 to be gutless, but good on the highway, just takes forever to get to that sweet spot. and the 13 is viscous around town on stop and go riding ,but it feels like im gonna blow up if i get up to 120km/h. im thinking about grabbing a 15 just to experiment, i think that would be the one i want if i was going to go on a long trip. but i live in cape breton and everythings close, and we have the cabot trail which is all windy mountain roads so the 13 is spot on or that. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by CalisOsin on 09/11/12 at 15:16:34 I heard mention of a bar mounted speedo that works off a magnet on the front wheel. Any links to something like this that is proven to work? Is it digital or analog? |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Oldfeller on 09/11/12 at 15:23:42 Sigma bike units work the best. They can keep up with your bike's speed accurately up to 130 mph, many of the other bike units get very fuzzy when you go past 40 mph. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by CalisOsin on 09/11/12 at 15:36:39 Thanks OldFeller. Not a big fan of the digital look. I ordered a new speedo cable for my bike(mine is lost somewhere) but got the wrong one. Guess I'll just send it back, get the right one, and then modify my existing speedo to be correct. I'm not a big fan of my mileage being off all the time though. Oh well. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by PMo85 on 04/29/13 at 10:45:13 Hello all. I know this is an old post however, it is the most informative one on the matter that I can find & I was hoping that someone out there could help me out I recently purchased a 2013 S40 and love the heck out of it! The only draw back is top end Can anyone out there let me know if this information will still apply to a 2013 since I am unable to find any information on the 2013's? |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Buil2Last on 04/29/13 at 11:50:39 0A1735626F5A0 wrote:
If you use this chart, then yes you can increase top end speed at the cost of torque http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/Vroom-RPM-5th.jpg |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by rfw2003 on 04/29/13 at 14:31:48 796446111C290 wrote:
Even with re-gearing your not really gonna see any better top end speed. you need to not only re-gear but also build your engine up some because it simply doesn't have the power to get there even in stock gearing. You can't even hit red line in top gear in stock form right now. So to answer your question, you need to build power first and then re-gear to get the top end you want. If your looking at hitting a 100 or better, you need to look at a different bike. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Kris01 on 07/13/14 at 13:21:35 I've been thinking about swapping to chain drive lately but started wondering... How long can I go on chain and sprockets (roughly) if I'm not too hard on them with the throttle? 1000 miles? 5000 miles? I don't want to have to replace them once a year. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by NickGann on 07/13/14 at 18:00:32 675E455F1C1D2C0 wrote:
Like this man, I am also curious about mileage before replacement as well as any maintenance tools that may need to be carried in order to tighten up the chain on longer trips...There seems to be a whole host of new information that would be needed in order to understand both the short and long term effects of this conversion. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Dave on 07/14/14 at 05:20:38 6D7A66637B3D636E7C7B39390F0 wrote:
If you use this chart, then yes you can increase top end speed at the cost of torque http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/Vroom-RPM-5th.jpg[/quote] No....You will not increase your top speed. As geared the Savage will run out of Horsepower before you reach the Redline in high gear. What you will do is reduce the rpm's that the engine is turning during normal roadway speeds. When cruising along at 60 or 70 mph in top gear - you will be able to reduce the engine rpm's and make the bike a lot more "relaxed" at highway speeds. If you are in high gear and roll on the throttle.....somewhere around 80 the bike will just run out of power and stop accelerating, and by shifting down a gear you might be able to go faster as the bike will be making more HP at higher engine speeds. My bike is a 2007 5 speed version, and I have geared it pretty high and I have an 18" rear wheel. In 5th gear I am turning about 3,400 rpm at 60 and about 4,000 at 70, and the bike is really nice on the interstate. The bike will top out about 85 or so in 5th gear, and if I want to go faster I need to downshift to 4th. I have lots of engine mods and if I want to get up to 100, it can only be done in 4th as I need the higher rpm's to develop the needed horsepower.......5th gear has become an overdrive or cruising gear, and can only be used at speeds above 60 mph. Most reports I could find on the life of a chain is about 20,000 miles. Sprockets might last through a second chain if you turn the sprockets around to wear on the other side of the tooth...depends a bit on the hardness of the sprocket, aluminum/steel, and how dirty the conditions where you ride. Sprockets and chains can be messy, and do require adjustments, cleaning and oiling. Dave |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Kris01 on 07/14/14 at 19:06:13 Never thought about flipping the sprocket around. Great Idea! Thanks Dave! BTW, what ratio are you running Dave? Is it very "friendly" in the lower gears or do you have to feather the clutch more? |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Dave on 07/15/14 at 07:59:35 The stock front pulley is 23 tooth, and the rear stock pulley is 68 tooth. This ratio is 2.9565. The Kawasaki front pulley is 25 tooth, the Kawasaki rear pulley is 65 tooth. This ratio is 2.60. With the 2.60 ratio first gear is very tall, and you do need to feather the clutch more to get going. It also needs to be feathered a bit more in parking lots when you want to go slow, at idle it goes over 10 mph in first gear. Dave |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by RobSutt on 01/08/15 at 01:11:19 Love this thread. Is there a chart that shows the top speed of each gear with the different ratios? I'm particularly interested in where 1st and 2nd hit red line in the 3+ ratios. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Dave on 01/13/15 at 05:13:11 You can use "Gearing Commander" to do your own research. http://www.gearingcommander.com/ |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by jordan650 on 03/12/15 at 06:40:10 I don't know if anyone has addressed this but what would be the specification on the chain tension? would it be the same as the spec for the belt? |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/12/15 at 09:15:30 I have mine fairly tight and I get a full swing of the swingarm without binding. I can take a measurement tonight, but my gut feeling is that it's just 0.75 to 1.00 inches. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/16/15 at 07:49:29 My gut feeling was correct. I measured the free play at 1.00 inch. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by FerousBastard on 08/20/15 at 06:04:18 Sorry to have to drag this one out of cold storage, but can't seem to find anything but scattered references. I usually give some beans when I'm out on my own and would like to stretch the gears just a bit with a 17/45 or 17/43 ratio. But how well would the bike, with an open intake and exhaust tuned to match, handle said ratios with a passenger? |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Dave on 08/20/15 at 08:03:56 6B485F42585E6F4C5E594C5F492D0 wrote:
A stock engine bike with these higher gear ratios is going to be sluggish. If you have the 5 speed, you most likely will be traveling in 4th gear a lot with a passenger or on hills. That is not all that much of a problem, as 4th gear with the new sprockets will likely be similar to the stock gearing in 5th. With my higher gearing I don't really shift into 5th gear until I am over 60 mph, and most of my back road riding is in 3rd or 4th gear. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by FerousBastard on 08/20/15 at 11:34:34 655E5344555942445F575A45360 wrote:
Sounds great. But with stock engine, do you mean bone stock (intake snorkel, filter, exhaust and muffler and all) or an engine with upgraded intake and exhaust but stock internals (cam, bore and compression)? |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Dave on 08/20/15 at 12:39:02 A muffler and an air cleaner isn't going to make much of a difference in power - but it does make a small improvement. You are proposing to change the gear by 13%.......and by doing so you accomplish a couple of things. The engine has 13% less mechanical advantage in trying to move the bike (less leverage), and you have dropped the engine down 13% on the HP and torque curves (less power). Those may sound like the same thing - but they are different and the cumulative change will most certainly be noticeable. MMRanch had the Kawasaki double pulley set up on his bike (2.60 ratio) and his bike is basically stock but has a better flowing muffler, and he took it off and went with the single front Kawasaki pulley (2.72 ratio) as the bike was just not peppy enough anymore with both pulleys changed. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by FerousBastard on 08/20/15 at 13:03:57 58636E7968647F79626A67780B0 wrote:
So in order to offset the 13% drop in ratio multiplied hp and torque, you really need to up the engines performance by 13% over stock just to break even. Sounds like a bit more than just your average K&N and muff job, but it's really good to know, so you know what to expect performance wise after converting. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Ultimafuego on 09/23/15 at 14:44:05 My '06 has UNI foam filter, Harley muffler, and jetting to 155/55 with white spacer mod. But no real modifications. I run a 17/43 chain conversion and love it. Rides a lot like Dave says though, 5th not being there for you really. Always cruising around in 3rd and 4rth, but it is worth it for the lower cruising RPMs and lower vibration. I am contemplating the cast wheel conversion to a 17" rear, at which point i may drop my front sprocket to a 16 or even a 15. http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah63/ultimatrifire/S40/IMAG0343_zpspb6pd6st.jpg |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Kris01 on 09/23/15 at 20:10:53 This may have been answered before... Can you run the stock belt guard with a chain conversion? If so, is there a certain ratio which wouldn't allow the use of the belt guard (due to sprocket dimensions and chain clearance)? |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Kris01 on 10/13/15 at 16:53:02 Chain Length Calculators: http://www.rebelgears.com/chainlengthcalculator.html https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/chainlength.html http://carbonfibervalvecovers.com/tools/belt_rpm_calc.html http://www.botlanta.org/converters/dale-calc/sprocket.html |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Kris01 on 01/16/16 at 12:36:28 Here's a chart I made showing different sprocket ratios. I only used ratios higher than the stock belt drive. You can change some of the numbers if you want lower gear ratios. It won't upload an Excel file so I had to convert it to a .zip. Just right-click, "Save target as", and unzip and open the folder to reveal an Excel file. ;) Update: Made a few changes and corrected an error. This is the newest version. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by roadkill on 05/13/16 at 15:07:07 Just converted to chain.Went really tall. 40/17. I used JT sprockets, RYCA stainless spacer (outboard of countershaft sprocket) original locking washer etc. Over the last half century I've had seven bikes, 4 chains, 2 shafts, and 1 belt. Mt last chain, a 650cc Yamaha Twin XS-650 was a perfect candidate for gearing up. It turned 4000 rpm @ 60 mph and was truly tiresome trying to cover much ground. In stages (as chain and sprockets wore out) I'd gear up even higher than before, finally ending at 19/30 (after starting at 17/34). This brought my rpm at 60 mph from 4000 to only 2700. @ 60mph I had the same rpm in 3rd gear I use to have in 5th! I had given myself 2 overdrives. It was great for fuel economy and comfort. Once, with a straight face, I told the owner of a 1050cc, 6 cylinder Honda CBX that I did it so I won't hit red line in 5th until I was going 130mph. As his jaw dropped and his eyes widened I said, "JUST KIDDING!" Anyway, it is with this experience as a backdrop, I decided to go really tall at first. I figured that a 530 chain will last just about forever coping with about 31hp and 33 lb/ft of torque, and if I didn't get it right the first time, I might not be able to wear out the set in this lifetime. Secondly, My XS650 was in a much higher state of tune than the S-40, producing 81hp/liter where the S-40 supplies just 48hp/liter. As is the case with low stressed engines, the torque peak occurs at a greatly reduced rpm. In this case 3400rpm. This made the bike ideally suited to such tampering.(I hoped) Well I got lucky, it's a very civilized machine on the open road and my wife even likes it better around town (for some reason). I get 66 mpg @ 55mph and 56mpg at 65 to 72 mph. At high speeds it's a tolerable tingle instead of a belligerent buzz at the grips. In town I can expect about the same milage as I get at high speeds. From a standing start, keeping rpm moderate, I ride the clutch to about !0 mph, after that everything's the same. Doing this I don't make an obstacle of myself in traffic or feel that I'm torturing the clutch unmercifully. In a residential neighborhood when school is letting out or there are witnesses about (when you're behaving yourself), the tightest turns or U-turns are best executed in 1st gear least you sound like the little engine that (almost) could. I do have a few questions for members. First, I've located a few sources indicating the S-40 turns 3940rpm at 60mph. Here I read 3733rpm. Has the final gearing changed? Second, has anyone used the Trywin D1 GPS computer on their S-40? I understand it works with PC's and "supports" whatever. All I need is something to clamp on my handlebar and give me my speed and distance. It's simple and cheap. Any data on this or any other low-buck GPS handlebar computer or even a normal speedometer would be greatly appreciated. The speedo is even more useless now than it was before since I wear a full coverage helmet and don't feel safe doing a bobble-head routine in Phoenix traffic.I hope to hear reaction or feedback soon. (if I don't get my as killed 'cause I left my turn signal on) roadkill |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Kris01 on 05/13/16 at 23:20:29 1987-95 4-speed ratios: Primary 1.888 (68/36) Secondary (belt) 2.956 (68/23) 2.2143 (31/14) 1.5000 (27/18) 1.0952 (23/21) 0.8750 (21/24) 1996-2016 5-speed ratios: Primary 1.811 (67/37) Secondary (belt) 2.956 (68/23) 2.3333 35/15 1.5789 30/19 1.1429 24/21 0.9565 22/23 0.8846 23/26 You can figure RPMs with: mph X 336.1524 X (Primary x Secondary x TransGear) ÷ tire diameter You can find tire diameter with this (using a 140/90-15 as an example): (Section width x (aspect ratio / 100) / 25.4 x 2) + wheel diameter (140 x (90 / 100) / 25.4 x 2) + 15 = 24.9213" tall |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Kris01 on 05/14/16 at 10:11:57 I just realied what ratio you are using. 2.35:1!!! Most guys have a difficult time with 43/17 (2.53:1). Have you modded the engine to compensate for the extremely high gearing? I assume your clutch will probably wear out a little faster because you are slipping it more than usual. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by roadkill on 05/14/16 at 16:28:48 or even more accurately, 1.measure wheel/tire circumference times 4 then divide by 4 (to minimize the effect of inaccuracy of the measurement) = 6.04425 ft. 2. divide the distance travelled in a minute (5280 ft.) by the wheel/ tire circumference (6.04425 ft.) to arrive at the wheel/tire revolutions per mile.(also revolutions per minute) 873.5575 full circles. 3.multiply primary drive X secondary drive X 5th gear ratio, 1.811 X 2.956 X .8846= 4.73554 number of engine revs pre wheel/tire revs. 4.multiply wheel/tire cycles per mile (and per minute) X engine revs per wheel/tire revs to get revolutions per minute 873.5575 X 4.73554=4136rpm 5. divide new secondary ratio by original secondary ratio=2.35294/2.95652 = .79584 6. multiply this value X calculated original rpm @ 60mph to get the new value .79584 X 4136.7664 = 3292.236 rpm @ 60mph (revised) What my driver-ed teacher referred to as "jackrabbit starts" a half century ago, are a thing of the past. But I don't miss them. (I'm an old fart after all) The jury is still out on the clutch though. roadkill |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Kris01 on 05/14/16 at 20:11:23 That's waaay too much work! ;D Using my way won't be "dead on" accurate (because of tire mfr's tolerances) but you'll only be off by 2 or 3 RPM. Close enough for me. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by TobbeSavage on 04/25/17 at 04:39:50 I have investigated the measurment that is needed to replace when it is a chainconversion. The old frontpulley on my 1994 Savage had the measurment on the driveaxle of 15 mm. I bought a lasercut frontsprocket from a producer called SNELL and the sprockets productnumber is:SNELL SNF513-17T1 and this sprocket is 8,8 mm wide so I made a spacer from harder steel and the measurment of that is outside diameter:40 mm (it is ok for the 17 tooth sprocket), inside hole:25mm and width: 6,2. I payed 250 Skr, about 29 US dollar and they made me 2 spacers so I have one in reserve. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by TobbeSavage on 05/04/17 at 08:01:21 I have made the conversion and it only took 2 hours to change the whole thing. The spacer was exact what the chain needed and after cutting the chain I was very happy looking at the old parts laying at the floor. Many thanks for the info about how thin the chain needed to be so I bought a 500 chain and everything could be mounted back as it has been. :) |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Hamman on 06/01/17 at 12:42:30 Just ordered a 14t front sprocket. The 17t is way too tall for me and style of riding. Takes forever just to get up to a decent speed! I'll be sure to report back! |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/02/17 at 08:56:06 You may find that the 14T CS will make contact with the swingarm under normal riding conditions. I know your swingarm is modified, but my unmodified swingarm and 18/52 sprockets will make chain contact if the shock is extended beyond 13-1/4". |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Hamman on 06/03/17 at 07:33:30 Thanks Gary for the info. Correct my swing arm is modified with all tabs/brackets removed. Just more curious on if anyone has ridden the LS with a 14/43 setup. I expect it to be a lot more torquey! |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by kojones on 04/11/18 at 13:09:50 I did the conversion today, sprockets 16-44 and the chain will occasionally hit the swingarm because I have 320mm rear shocks. Glued a plastic slider in there, hope it works. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by batman on 04/11/18 at 13:48:36 Two even numbered sprockets -not the best for wear. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by kojones on 04/12/18 at 07:01:07 2E2D38212D2278744C0 wrote:
So I've heard. Not too much odd sizes available when sprocket size increases, going to replace those 16 and 44 with 18 and 52. Hope the chain will clear the swingarm then. And for the spacers: Two M24 flat washers is just the right thickness. 1 inch should work, too. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Tattooed hooligan on 11/15/18 at 11:01:32 I'm doing the chain conversion on both mine and my wife's bike,I'm wanting to run 12.5" shocks because these bikes are going to be mainly used for trail riding but we will still be running them on the street some also. I'm definitely not wanting higher top speed,factory top speed is fine with me because I dont want to lose and low end grunt. What size sprockets should I use to keep close to factory speeds that also wont cause the chain to rub the swing arm? |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by ZSteele on 02/14/19 at 15:12:36 Sorry to drag this up, I'm converting to a 14-45 setup tomorrow (hopefully) and I'm wondering if I need to plan on cutting tabs and running without the guard? |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Tattooed hooligan on 02/14/19 at 15:14:42 I removed my guard and tabs before doing the conversion,just out of preference. So I'm not really sure if you will need to or not |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by ZSteele on 02/15/19 at 15:08:13 Got done with the 14-45 conversion a couple hours ago. Holy crap is it awesome! Thanks so much for all the great information here from all! ' Note: 14/45 fits just fine with the guards still on, standard chain however not o-ring |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Motopsycho1305 on 02/10/21 at 11:25:02 Hello. I'm new to the forum and I am customizing 2 savages. 1 of them I am going to convert to chain drive and I want to either keep it as close to stock or maybe a little better top end. But after reading different posts from different sources there seems to be a difference of opinion on the number of teeth on both sprockets. So just reaching out to hear what you all think. Thanks |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/17/21 at 09:14:45 416E7776616A6C566A706D76766E67020 wrote:
There's no "difference of opinion" on sprocket choice, it's just comes down to what you want. Also, some have installed different sized rear wheels, which effects the final drive ratio. For example, I use a 130/70-18 rear tire with 18/52 sprockets. At 60 mph, my tach shows 3,700 rpm. If for example I was using a 140/80-15 rear tire, I would need sprockets of 18/49 to have the same rpm at 60 mph. But I may not like how that combo accelerates. Gear ratios are all about compromise. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Yazman on 10/31/22 at 09:46:25 I don't go over 60mph, so I want more torque/acceleration. I have a RYCA with 94mm hi-comp, stage 3 cam, PWK38, and unrestricted exhaust. My back tire is a 130/70R18, so it's already geared taller than stock, but I want short-geared, drag bike, light-to-light action. Questions: 1. Can the stock clutch handle my mods AND higher gear ratio (e.g., 13/50 = 3.85 or 14/50 = 3.57)? 2. I need GS550T front & rear sprocket, 525 or 530 110-link chain, and big washer for front sprocket? That's it? 3. I know you're supposed to do the prime number thing, but I'm only seeing 15/50 kits. Anyone know of a good source in 2022? Thanks fellas! I love the belt, but seems like there's no options for gearing shorter with it. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Yazman on 10/31/22 at 14:03:34 Ordered this and a 14t. We'll see how it goes! |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Surviving Philly on 06/23/23 at 21:46:33 Is there a consensus on how to get a correct spacer for the front sprocket? |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Michael Moore on 05/27/24 at 09:34:59 For those looking to do a 520 chain, it turns out that the Kawasaki EX400 twin (the modern 2018-2023 engine) sprocket shares the Savage output shaft spline pattern. I got one from Vortex, #3270-17 (last two digits for the number of teeth). |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Surviving Philly on 05/27/24 at 16:50:20 Michael what is your take on the front sprocket spacer? I've been sitting on a nice chain and sprockets for this mod but have not attempted it yet due to some other issues/project. Very interested in your thoughts. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Michael Moore on 05/27/24 at 17:17:19 Keep in mind that I've not looked at the parts other than fitting the Vortex sprocket to a countershaft that is not in an engine to confirm the spline fit. If the retaining nut will bottom out on the splines before clamping on the sprocket, then I guess you need a spacer. If it is just a spacer and not doing any drive (no teeth attached) then I don't know why it would need to have the internal splines as an appropriate ID/OD/thickness washer would serve to take the clamp force from the nut. The splines in the spacer shouldn't be doing anything other than offering a little more surface area on the spacer for the nut to seat against. Unless there's something that isn't too obvious, that's the way it looks to me. I'll admit that I bought an extra 530 sprocket based on this thread, but if I don't see a need to cut it down I'll just make a steel spacer/washer (or see if McMaster has a nice hardened machine washer). |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Ruttly on 05/31/24 at 20:17:21 Yeah , the Ryca chain conversion kit uses a spacer , maybe a drop of loctite on the nut. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Surviving Philly on 06/06/24 at 15:10:57 I agree with your thought that a stack of washers would probably be fine, however an old gear head I trust with my life gave me a strong no on that idea, he wouldn't elaborate and I cannot ask as this is the way of things with elders sometimes, but I can't imagine what the issue would be going this route. The other plan is to buy a second sprocket and machine it down into a washer, which I have been considering and do have the second washer in my possession, the machining tools not so much but I have a dude to reach out to. |
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Title: Re: Chain coversion for the Savage/S40 Post by Surviving Philly on 07/22/24 at 07:09:41 So... About these spacers. Ryka as many may know had a chain conversion for thier kit --- they used a small spacer behind the sprocket and a large one in front. Any idea why? It seems like others have done fine with just a beefy spacer in the front. |
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