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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Carb Mod Trouble /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1173759825 Message started by Fido_the_Cat on 03/12/07 at 21:23:45 |
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Title: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Fido_the_Cat on 03/12/07 at 21:23:45 My stock 02 with 5k on the clock was running fine six weeks before I parked it. Then I replaced the muffler, Emgo Dunstall Replica, put a 152.5 main, left the pilot at 52.5 and a half spacer in the carb, then a K&N drop-in air filter. at first it started fine, then it got slower, then stuttering, and of course stopped. Attempts to re-start wouldn't work. Rinning on prime, no help. When it did start I had it at full throttle only to get a steady but weak run from it. I did notice a little lite smoke (exhaust) chucked that up to new and needs idle reset. And that's my problem. I think the carb is flooding out and that I did something to the float. Can't set an idle that I don't have. Did I mess up the float? No I didn't do anything to it. I remember someone suggesting lately to drain the carb and fuel from the tank because of Ethanol (I am almost certain that I don't use it in my gas) I drain some fuel; didn't see anything and it started right off. Idled fine then dropped off and I can't start it. Is something amiss in my carb.? No my vent tubes are not pinched. The float is my only guess. And I don't want to rip down the carb on a guess. The air flow should have made up for the change in extra fuel. I did have no spacer but when I opened the carb this time I decided that was too much fuel. I plan to set up the idle when I get it running. And while we are talking about it, Don't laugh, where do I hook up the tach to set the idle? I appreciate any help please. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by tbalam on 03/12/07 at 21:34:05 I would check the easy stuff first, Dumb stuff first make sure you have fuel in it, I am sure you do, but check anyway. Check all of you hoses to make sure your vacuum line is hook up and not pinched and also check the fuel line. Make sure your battery connections are tight and the batt fully charged. Then i would open the fuel bowl drain (bottom nut and see if you have fuel draining out, put the petthingy on prime. You can tap litely on the fuel bowl if no fuel is coming out. If that fixes it then you have a stuck float. Next I would go back in to the carb and inspect the the jet, the float and the needle seat. Also, I would check the upper diaphragm and make sure that it is lined up properly with the little rubber tab, and at the same time you can check the slide spring. This can get off line when reinstalling the cap and really cause havoc with everything. Next, I would make sure you have spark. Since you changed some things, it is likely that something didn't go back together quite right. It sounds more like it ran out of gas than anything electrical, but that's just my .02 |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Reelthing on 03/12/07 at 22:11:01 tbalam wrote:
good list - and to this diaphragm section - clean - make sure the slide is clean - not oil grease - nothing on the slide. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Greg_650 on 03/12/07 at 22:45:52 Check the float. Make sure it isn't stuck. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by justin_o_guy on 03/12/07 at 22:55:39 Sounds like an engine with no fuel. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Greg_650 on 03/12/07 at 23:18:01 Sounds like an engine with too much fuel ;D |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by smokin_blue on 03/13/07 at 03:31:09 I vote with Greg.....pull the float bowl off, check any jets you touched but also the float and the needle very carefully....sounds like too much gas and is flooding. Note it started up well after draining the carb. Also, if it were only an idle adjustment it ought to run fine holding the throttle just a little to keep it idling. Doesn't sound any where close to that condition. Check the float and valve needle/seat...any spec of dirt can hold the valve needle open. Also, you didn't mention...did you have the slide and spring out? If you did make sure that is in right. You can check by blowing in the long oval slot at the inlet and the slide will rise and then fall imediately when you stop blowing. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by enophile on 03/13/07 at 04:46:06 Definitely sounds like the float. Pull the carb back off and check it out carefully. After that, pull the spark plug and clean it (or replace it) because it will probably be wet. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Greg_650 on 03/13/07 at 08:08:33 smokin_blue wrote:
And just how do you propose to blow on that slot? Reminds me of another topic :) |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Greg_650 on 03/13/07 at 08:09:09 enophile wrote:
Yep. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by justin_o_guy on 03/13/07 at 08:39:57 You aren't gonna let it go are ya? I just had to check it. So0, we can conclude I am determined, thorough & sometimes very wrong. I knew when I posted that I was loading the guns that would shoot me. Honestly, the flak has been a LOT less than I thought that post would get. And , all in good fun. I can laugh at myself. I was straightening the vent near the wipers on a Ford Pickup with a hook, both elbows on the fender, biceps straining to lift that bent vent just a hair, when it popped loose. The tubular handle hit me between the eyes so hard I knocked myself all the way across the next bay backwards, trying to not fall on my butt. No One saw it, so I had to go tell the guys. That was too funny to keep to myself. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Greg_650 on 03/13/07 at 08:44:09 justin_o_guy wrote:
Hey. I jammed a phillips screwdriver up my right nostril once when changing brake shoe springs on a '64 Chevy. That'll bring tears to your eyes :P |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by LANCER on 03/13/07 at 09:20:15 You guys are just making my whole day. ;D |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by justin_o_guy on 03/13/07 at 09:21:07 Ohh man, just reading that nearly did it. I hope while you had it up there you went ahead & tightened the loose screws in yer head. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Greg_650 on 03/13/07 at 09:32:22 justin_o_guy wrote:
Naw, just rounded out the heads. But really, it actually went part way up my cheek. Cool huh? Anyone can knock themselves in the head. I take it to a new level :P |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by TVR on 03/13/07 at 14:17:47 Kinda figured it would just knock against the bottom side of your skull....Hmph... ;) |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Greg_650 on 03/13/07 at 14:32:40 TVR wrote:
Damm near a self inflicted lobotomy :P |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Reelthing on 03/13/07 at 15:47:49 Greg_650 wrote:
might have happened how would you know? |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by verslagen1 on 03/13/07 at 16:43:26 Another dumb question just to bring this discussion back to fido... Since you didn't say the the new muff sounded good... Was the new muffler open? You didn't leave some packing in there? |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by barry68v10 on 03/13/07 at 17:19:52 On a related note...What would you guys recommend as a main and pilot jet with OPEN PIPES?!? :o (Sea level, 70F, 29 barometric pressure, and 50% humidity, any other details necessary? :) |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by smokin_blue on 03/14/07 at 03:56:10 Greg_650 wrote:
You just had to ask didn't you..... ::) step one..find slot step two...pucker up step three...get a good seal on slot step four....blow! Man you just have to drag out the details don't you!! ;D |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Greg_650 on 03/14/07 at 04:58:17 smokin_blue wrote:
I'm just compassionate and sympathetic guy that wants to afford all newbies with the best possible options that will bring them success. I know how tough it was for me and just want to make their transition as painless as possible. It's a noble goal, but I'm up to it... |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by azjay on 03/14/07 at 06:40:10 barry68v10 wrote:
we run a 152.5 main, 1/2 spacer, #55 pilot, and we're at +165'. we also ran a 155 main, 2/3 spacer, #55 pilot, with good results. i attempted to pick up some gas mileage by downsizing the main jet, i dont think it made a lot of difference, because the mid range (most riding) was compensated by raising the needle. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Fido_the_Cat on 03/14/07 at 19:32:55 Are we at Sluggo's table? I could have sworn we were in... Thanks for all the good ideas. May be the weekend before I get another crack at opening the carb to see what's going on. Not that I would know if it was right or not. I'm guessing that not working properly will be obvious. (I hope) First thing I did was to check all the things I'm too smart to so or miss. Plenty of gas. Steady stream on prime. Cleared the bowl to see if it was bad. Looked clear to me. I will be extra observant to find the puzzle piece. I have to agree with the too much fuel theory... only thing that makes sense. Verslagen1: Thanks for asking. I'm not sure since I never really got past idle. I held back the temptation to twist it up, haven't had it running in a while, want the oil warm before doing that. But yes I think it will sound distinct. Smokin_blue: Not to blow on hot embers but is the slide called something else? I agree with you that for what I have done it should still be running. Thanks again. I'm sure that I will have it running this weekend. I'll let you know what I found. BTW... How do I set up the tach to set the idle? That is... I mean.... well the way you guys handle your tools, perhaps I should look it up. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Reelthing on 03/14/07 at 19:59:28 Fido_the_Cat wrote:
Well if you've done the 1/2 spacer than you've had the slide in your hand - has the needle sticking out one end and the diaphram on the other end and large srping goes on top of it - pretty important that it is clean and not hanging up or down - slide'n free what kind of tach do you have? some are induction and you just wrap a wire around the plug wire - good for diag or setting idle mixtures but won't hold up to the vibs very long if mounted on the bike - or a normal electronic bike tach? |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Greg_650 on 03/14/07 at 20:06:21 The idle is easy to set by ear. Just like a lawn mower, it doesn't have a tach cause it's not that important. Turn the speed down till it sort of chugs or lopes, then turn it back up till it runs real smooth and steady. You are in the 100 rpm range and good enough to go. If it bogs a bit, then turn it up a bit more. Do it when hot too. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Fido_the_Cat on 03/19/07 at 16:34:02 Okay. I removed the carb and inspected it, everything was tight and clean except for the shop rag I stuffed in it when I stored it for a couple of weeks. it was under the butterfly; at least that's my answer for not seeing it. Now it runs fine but I get the popping that others talk about. It's too cold around here to get a decent ride in to warm it up. Sunday I was out most of the day, by the time I got the test drive in, it was time to move onto another project. so hopefully this weekend I will get to tune the carb. Do I follow Lancer's Carb Tune-up thread? to get rid of the popping? Greg. are you saying just adjust the idle speed (left side) Muffler sounds great! Very Europian. British almost. That's my opinion, I have no experience to back it up. Thanks for all your suggestions. Start simple and eliminate the obvious. I still need to work at not 4 things at the same time and still pay attention to the one I'm on. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by LANCER on 03/19/07 at 16:42:07 azjay wrote:
Remember that you will not see any difference in the main jet size except in the 3/4-full throttle range. Needle ... 1/4-3/4 throttle range Pilot ....idle to 1/4 throttle range There is some overlap of course, but that is the basics of it. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Fido_the_Cat on 03/19/07 at 17:11:05 Having said that, does that mean that the white spacer is the 1/4 to 3/4 adjustment? Is the popping that I have a lean fuel setting not getting burned off at decelleration? Thanks again, I finally got the muffler mounted trhe way I wanted. Looks factory. Sounds Distinct! |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by georgekathe on 03/19/07 at 19:40:37 fido - I started to follow Lancer's carb tip to get rid of backfire/popping but when I followed second part (where you turn the mixture screw out & engine is supposed to pick up speed & then start to slow) after almost 2 turns it did not start to slow, so I twisted throttle (what the heck, I thought!) & let it go & found I'd lost all backfire (actually on long ride today found out not all popping gone but gone most of time & when it did backfire occasionally it was not bad like before) see my entry called "what did I do? (right!)" for full details. hope this or following Lancer's tip all the way through works for you. :) |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Fido_the_Cat on 03/19/07 at 20:12:06 GeorgeKathe I was reading your situation earlier this evening, (after posting here) and it reminded me of my own break-in period that after I got some mileage on the bike (got it with 450 miles), the backfire went away. Did my habits get more even and smoothe? Did the muffler break-in? I did change to premium gas till I realized that the only thing I was loosing was extra cash. But for some reason the popping and backfire was gone. I can not expalin your situation anymore that I can tell you what happend with mine. I did keep an eye on things that seemed loose, I dunno, I'm reaching now. I will try Lancers guide and keep your experience in mind making sure that I remember where I started and where my settings are. I have been asking about using a tach to set the carb. (all together now) DUH!! DWELL METER. I know what it is. It has been sitting in my toolbox for many years. I asked how to connect it because I have in the past used multi meters to (blow) find bad circuits. Yeah I know I'm not lazy I just don't have the time or the extra memory space to remember what I read and how to apply it. If I can set it by ear I will try that. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Greg_650 on 03/19/07 at 21:59:27 Many have never used a tach or dwell meter to set their carb to run correctly. Why do you think that you need to? |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Greg_650 on 03/19/07 at 22:01:08 georgekathe wrote:
But what are you saying now that you didn't say before in the other post? |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by georgekathe on 03/19/07 at 22:20:39 nothing really Greg - just like hearing the sound of my own voice, I guess (also guess I like poking fun at myself, obviously!) ;D |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Greg_650 on 03/19/07 at 22:27:12 georgekathe wrote:
I was talking about the "not all popping gone" part...you didn't say that before did you? :P |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by justin_o_guy on 03/20/07 at 00:27:00 LANCER wrote:
So, since I am really feeling the acceleration in the upper rpm range with the 1/2 spacer & the 150 main, should I get a tapered needle to stick in it? & maybe go to a 50 pilot? |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by LANCER on 03/20/07 at 04:27:03 Fido_the_Cat wrote:
Yep, shaving the white spacer is basically the same as moving the clip on a "normal" needle up or down to a different groove and it affects the 1/4-3/4 throttle range. It is the pilot jet and it's "pilot air adjusting screw" that will affect the backfiring issue. There is a write-up somewhere that describes what happens that leads to backfiring, where the carb is concerned. Exhaust air leaks can also do it but this is the carb side of the issue. When the fuel/air ratio gets too lean (especially on deceleration with the throttle closed) it does not burn properly and thus leaves some unburned. It collects in the pipe and after a bit finally ignites, giving the BANG we all love and adore. Richening the mixture to the proper ratio enables a more complete burn which does not leave enough unburned fuel to collect in the pipe. That is the quick and dirty of it. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Greg_650 on 03/20/07 at 09:05:46 LANCER wrote:
I'm glad that you made that distinction... |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by LANCER on 03/20/07 at 09:12:49 OK |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Greg_650 on 03/20/07 at 09:57:40 LANCER wrote:
I recently had that discussion with another member. That screw is often misunderstood. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Fido_the_Cat on 03/20/07 at 17:57:24 Greg_650 wrote:
A misunderstood screw.... I've been enlightened. |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Greg_650 on 03/20/07 at 21:56:06 Fido_the_Cat wrote:
I don't know. If you got to the other topic you might be bewildered... |
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Title: Re: Carb Mod Trouble Post by Fido_the_Cat on 03/21/07 at 17:58:21 LANCER wrote:
What'd I miss? |
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